Is Johansson our 4th long-term/core top-4 D (Mo, Ed, ASP.. AJo?)

[SirloinUB]

Here’s my take:

AlJo has looked great in a very small sample size with Edvisson so far. Is it all on him, or is Simon the type of player who makes his partners look better? It’s way too soon to know for sure. Certainly premature to assume he can handle top pairing minutes with soul-crushing deployment like Seider does.

Also consider that not long ago he was not even rated as highly even by us as some of his peers like Wallinder, Buium, and Tuomisto. All those players were expected to be better than him and still may be. We can’t keep them all if they start hitting. That’s part of the reason we traded Andrew Gibson, too many guys already ahead.

My thoughts, I think if he keeps up this play he will price himself out of Detroit. Edvinsson will be due for a big raise in the 8-9M range or more. ASP will need big money too if he’s what we hope he will be. Paying 4 defenseman big dollars isn’t ideal and probably not the best. Even with the cap going up by almost 20M the next 2 years we have to be smart. AlJo is a prime guy who can get excellent trade value while having in-house cheap replacements already set up. He’s not a core guy imo and is probably long term best utilized trading for a top 6 forward than paying a big contract to keep around as a highly paid 4D behind Seider, Edvinsson, and ASP. If we are paying Seider 8.55M, and Edvinsson and ASP with the high cap probably 8.5-9.5M that’s already 25.5M-27.5M of the cap tied up in 3 defenseman. Do we really want to invest another 6-7M more for a 4D. Even at a projected cap of 113.5M for 2027-28 that’s around 30% of the cap on just your top 4 D. Then you have to figure Larkin, Raymond, whichever goalie hits between Cossa and Augustine, Kasper will need to be paid if he keeps it up, Danielson if he is what we hope he will be, DBC……. Cap runs out really fast and players will cost a LOT more starting this offseason knowing that all the teams will have loads of cap to spend for the next 4 years.

FWIW, Boston, Vegas and Colorado are currently spending 35% of the cap on their defense. Carolina is at 32%. Dallas is at 36%. Kings are at 34%.

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself stressing about cap allocation for the defense when 3 of the guys you have mentioned have yet to sign a contract.

 

[norrisnick]

I think this is probably right. Long term I doubt we see both Aljo and ASP in the top four. We have room for one of them in the top 4 but not both I suspect.

I am extremely happy with how Aljo has played since the coaching change. I have been the biggest Aljo bear on this board and I am extremely happy that he is proving me wrong. That said, I encourage people to be cautious. I sense people are judging him against the crap on our roster, and not league standards. I see him as more of a number 5 on a really competitive roster. Everything is relative in life. We are all accustomed to watching four really bad defensemen a night. The least ugly girl is still ugly.

And that attitude is how Forsling ended up in Florida...

 

[ElProfessor]

There’s no way ASP is more hyped than Ed. ASP has been hyped to be our future second pairing RD and PP1. Edvinsson has been hyped to be better than our young #1D

Pre NHL debut hyped, I mean.

Edvinsson was a great prospect. But if he'd won 2 world junior DMan of the tournament's people here would've been jumping off buildings w him in GR last yr

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

And that attitude is how Forsling ended up in Florida...

I would love it if he has that sort of offensive

And that attitude is how Forsling ended up in Florida...

Without his offensive break out, Forsling is a totally different player. If Aljo breaks out offensively in a similar fashion I am happy to revisit this topic of discussion.

 

[SirloinUB]

Id rather not make a big swing if it means shipping out guys like Al Jo or Kasper.

 

[DoMakc]

Right now, Johansson is the future 3rd pairing LD. He may eventually work up to the 2nd pair if things keep going well.

Right now Johansson is 2nd pairing RD, and a good one, that the only things that matters. I mean Larkin might be also future 3rd line center or Seider is 3rd pairing RD...

 

[RRhoads]

AlJo doesn't make many mistakes.

 

[stillwater]

Well, wtf.

Going into the yr it looked like we had 3 of our 4 top-4 long-term core D in the organization (Seider, Ed, ASP)...and we still needed to add one more elite D.

Now it looks like we may actually already have all 4 in place, and might not need to add another elite D.

If you want to focus on the actual pairings...yada...whatever.

Didn't you start this entire thread with a D pairing in the title? He shouldn't focus on the actual pairings in a thread about a D pairing?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Right now, Johansson is the future 3rd pairing LD. He may eventually work up to the 2nd pair if things keep going well.

So, uh…you may have missed a few things
The last 6 weeks.

It’s 2025. Petry is injured. Gus was taken off PP1 and they’re scoring at a pretty high rate. Soderblom is a regular. AlJo has already been promoted to the 2nd pair and has played a big role in our 7 game, then 6 game win streaks.

 

[Euro Twins]

This. Honestly that's the one thing about coach Todd that bothers me. Not using ed on the pp over gustufson. Ed clearly has lots of skill to help improve the 2nd pp unit. Long term i think ed would be more effective than seider on the pp (ASP will be 1st pp).

Why does it bother you? Our first unit does most of the damage anyway? I'd much rather at this time develop Ed into the best pk and even strength dman in the league, lock him up long term this summer and then unleash his offensive prowess next year after he's had a full season of developing on the second pair the right way.

 

[Euro Twins]

FWIW, Boston, Vegas and Colorado are currently spending 35% of the cap on their defense. Carolina is at 32%. Dallas is at 36%. Kings are at 34%.

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself stressing about cap allocation for the defense when 3 of the guys you have mentioned have yet to sign a contract.

I don't get it either. I'd much rather pay 4 top tier dmen 32 million combined then 4 forwards $46.5

Hell 4 dmen at 32 combined plus Raymond and seider and we're just barely above what the leafs pay 4 forwards.

With a d core like we're building you only need 3-4 good forwards and 2 very good/elite forwards.

Especially if one of cossa or Augustine pans out

 

[HoweFan]

If Aljo runs us out of cap space then lets enjoy him for the next 3-4 years

 

[Euro Twins]

If Aljo runs us out of cap space then lets enjoy him for the next 3-4 years

He won't. I assure you. He's being overhyped. He's going to be a very solid #4dman. He may even have to play over his head to make room for asp next year. I'd be surprised if he isn't traded for a top pair LD

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

FWIW, Boston, Vegas and Colorado are currently spending 35% of the cap on their defense. Carolina is at 32%. Dallas is at 36%. Kings are at 34%.

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself stressing about cap allocation for the defense when 3 of the guys you have mentioned have yet to sign a contract.

Carolina’s is gonna look vastly different next year after they let Orlov and Burns walk, bring over Nikishin, and re-sign Mikko at 14M

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

He won't. I assure you. He's being overhyped. He's going to be a very solid #4dman. He may even have to play over his head to make room for asp next year. I'd be surprised if he isn't traded for a top pair LD

I’d be surprised if he’s traded.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

ASP doesn’t need to play in the top 4. As we’ve seen with Ghost you can be highly productive as a third pairing guy. PP1 and get offensive zone faceoffs. It all comes down to chemistry though. Right now Ed/AlJo are too good to break up. Maybe that changes at some point. Maybe we pair up Mo and Ed and then AlJo and ASP are second pairing. Maybe we find Mo a partner from FA/trade and AlJo can be an elite #5 D. The thing is, we have two #1D in Mo and Ed and two second pairing D in ASP and AlJo. Add one more to that and we have a lot of options with the line up, and that’s a contender D corp most importantly.

 

[FMichael]

He won't. I assure you. He's being overhyped. He's going to be a very solid #4dman. He may even have to play over his head to make room for asp next year. I'd be surprised if he isn't traded for a top pair LD

Why would Yzerman want to overpay for that 'elusive' top pairing Dman when he already has what appears to be a solid top 4 once ASP arrives?

I just don't get why we need to move guys like AlJo or SodaBomb once they show promise...These guys were drafted by Detroit, spend their time honing their skills back home in Sweden, come over and adjust to 'Murica and the AHL, are 'made' within the Swede Mafia, and are now making splash in the NHL.

Maybe I'm being sentimental here, but it's satisfying to see this team develop and grow from within.

 

[ElProfessor]

Didn't you start this entire thread with a D pairing in the title? He shouldn't focus on the actual pairings in a thread about a D pairing?

Go pick a semantics with a bird or something dude.

 

[ElProfessor]

ASP doesn’t need to play in the top 4. As we’ve seen with Ghost you can be highly productive as a third pairing guy. PP1 and get offensive zone faceoffs. It all comes down to chemistry though. Right now Ed/AlJo are too good to break up. Maybe that changes at some point. Maybe we pair up Mo and Ed and then AlJo and ASP are second pairing. Maybe we find Mo a partner from FA/trade and AlJo can be an elite #5 D. The thing is, we have two #1D in Mo and Ed and two second pairing D in ASP and AlJo. Add one more to that and we have a lot of options with the line up, and that’s a contender D corp most importantly.

Why would Yzerman want to overpay for that 'elusive' top pairing Dman when he already has what appears to be a solid top 4 once ASP arrives?

I just don't get why we need to move guys like AlJo or SodaBomb once they show promise...These guys were drafted by Detroit, spend their time honing their skills back home in Sweden, come over and adjust to 'Murica and the AHL, are 'made' within the Swede Mafia, and are now making splash in the NHL.

Maybe I'm being sentimental here, but it's satisfying to see this team develop and grow from within.

Yes. Ed and AJo have great chemistry together. And that shouldn't be taken lightly. But let's not get carried away and start acting like the DCore MUST be built around them playing together...

Ed and AJo are both good, and they're both smart... of course they play well together.

Mo, who is good and smart, plays pretty well w Chiarot, who is bad and stupid. How do you think he would do with AJo?

Ed actually played pretty well w Petry, who is horrible and stupid. How do you think he would do w ASP, who is good and smart?

.....

ASP's not going to play on the 3rd pair. I think Yzerman's even said he wouldn't call him up unless it was to assume a top-4 role. And it's very unlikely that we're going to play our top two RHD's together.

??? --- Seider
??? --- ASP

Odds are Ed and AJo will be broken up once ASP's ready. And odds are they will both have great chemistry w Mo and ASP. Bc all 4 of them are good and smart.

.....

Now, in getting back to my original point: Do we need to bring in another elite D?

Mo, Ed, ASP and AJo...I think...are all going to be very solid, Stanley Cup-level 22-23 min/game players.

Do you want to spend big cap space (and/or big trade assets) on another elite D...making one of these ^ guys a 15 min/g 3rd pair player?

If you're looking at this FA class, which LHD is for sure going to be better than Johansson in 2yrs? Chychrun is probably the best bet...but not a sure thing...and his health is concerning. Pettersson, Provorov, Gavrikov, etc... would you bet on any of them deserving more ice time than AJo in 2yrs? I wouldn't.

.....

I think the move now is to... Put AJo w Seider and ASP w Ed as soon as ASP is ready (hopefully to start next yr)... and to see how it goes. If for some reason those ^ pairs have less chemistry than Ed-AJo...then you can put Ed & AJo back together...you can try Mo & ASP together...and you can consider bringing in a new LH partner for Mo (making ASP a 3rd pair PP specialist)

 

[newfy]

He looks like a top 4D right now, needs to prove a little more but he definitely could be. The way Detroits forward group is built, they're going to need their D to be really good to compete and Johansson looking like a hit helps a lot. A strong bottom pair that allows Seider and Edvinsson to not eat 27+ a game will keep them fresher long term and in tight games.

With Johansson playing like this, in 3 years time it looks almost like a lock that the wings will have a Stanley cup calibre defence

 

[19 for president]

I think the ideal would be to land a vet dman for between 2-3 years. Someone that could allow Aljo and ASP to continue developing on a lower pair.

I think Aljo could be that safe partner for Seider long term, but I think throwing a good vet (IE not Chiarot) in the top 4 for the short term would be a good idea. Rarely if ever do you see a top 4 d setup where every guy is under 25.

Give Aljo another season or two to develop before putting him up against consistent 1st line matchups. Allow ASP to take his year in GR and/or 3rd pair ice time. Going to from big ice to small often takes a little time for dmen to adjust because it changes all of their angles. Even if he comes over an dominates right away we don't have to worry about a raise until 28/29.

This team is being built from the back end. Having an over abundance of D is fine for a season or two. We just need to make sure that whomever we sign is either up before ASPs contract would be up or is tradeable in a few seasons.

I would like to see them try and nab Aljo on a longer term cheaper deal this off season. I think he is a guy that could easily end up as a steal on like a 5 year deal.

 

[Euro Twins]

Why would Yzerman want to overpay for that 'elusive' top pairing Dman when he already has what appears to be a solid top 4 once ASP arrives?

I just don't get why we need to move guys like AlJo or SodaBomb once they show promise...These guys were drafted by Detroit, spend their time honing their skills back home in Sweden, come over and adjust to 'Murica and the AHL, are 'made' within the Swede Mafia, and are now making splash in the NHL.

Maybe I'm being sentimental here, but it's satisfying to see this team develop and grow from within.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe aljo will become a top pair dman. I don't think so but he's definitely going to be an upgrade over chiarot either way

 

[SirloinUB]

It feels weird to be debating Johansson's spot in the top 4 over ASP's at this point in time. Johansson is playing and holding down a top 4 role in the NHL.