Is it too hard to play in Canada?

[RedHawkDown]

I honestly think theres a lot more situations where the media in canadian markets, especially Toronto and Montreal, create explicitly negative forms of pressure.

For the sake of argument, has there been a case in the last 20 years in the EPL or with the Sox/Yankees where a player was run out of town in the way Kessel was?

Just as one example Yankees fans have booed Stanton many times when he’s struck out. They’re just as hard on their players. I’m not even sure what the media said about Kessel. They pressured him to talk and he was a shy guy so he caught some flak for that but I don’t recall him being explicitly shit on for his play by the media. Happy to see any articles to the contrary.

 

[UED]

I don't think playing in Canada is a problem for the players but I do wonder if the pressure gets to the GMs. Pretty weird how they all build excellent hockeydb teams but terrible hockey teams. Almost like they try to please the fans instead of build a team. The only one that didn't do that was Montreal, which had the most success(I would say not winning the cup in over 10 years with McDavid is a massive failure even if they win the next 5 cups, as they could because they have McDavid... but that's not a team that's a player) as a direct result but never had any stars so their failures were a GM issue too. There's obviously the American problem no American player will sign with a Canadian team and a lot of them count the days until they're UFA and can get out of Canada. Winnipeg can't even draft Americans anymore because they'll just stay in college to avoid playing there..that's not their fault but it is a big handicap. Unlikely they ever win the cup, they don't have access to the 2nd biggest player pool.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Even with great scouts identifying really good prospects, there's still a certain amount of luck involved in getting really good NHL players in the late 1st or early 2nd. How many other teams could have possibly selected Hintz or Oettinger or Robertson before Dallas could get them? Those other teams not seeing the same thing is luck.

It was also luck that the IIHF U18 World Championships just happened to be in Texas during the OHL Covid shutdown. That's reportedly where Wyatt Johnston caught their eye. I can't help but wonder whether that still happens if the tournament is in Russia or Finland or North Dakota instead of a bunch of the games getting played in the Stars practice facility.

So good drafting is just lucky because someone didn't take them first? That is literally insane.

IMO you can make a case that the Wings would have taken Dats/Zberg earlier if they were confident that they were as good as they ultimately turned out to be.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I honestly think theres a lot more situations where the media in canadian markets, especially Toronto and Montreal, create explicitly negative forms of pressure.

For the sake of argument, has there been a case in the last 20 years in the EPL or with the Sox/Yankees where a player was run out of town in the way Kessel was?

I remember when a TOR press member reached out to an injured players mom for an injury update (Reimer).

 

[David Suzuki]

Canada seems way more attractive to me than the alternative ATM

Even ignoring all the other stuff, the advantage of getting paid in USD in Canada is a selling point in my eyes...

 

[Korpse]

Regardless of how many times the cup will be visiting Canada it means nothing in comparison to having your team win it. So please stop dropping this nugget like it's a f***ing bombshell. No one cares, Canadians want a cup.

Speaking like someone who hasn’t seen someone from their community bring the cup home.

 

[LTIR]

Its only a problem for American born players
Oilers have literally no one from US playing on the team because they don't want to be here.

Not sure if it's a canada thing or just a small and cold city thing.

Let's see what excuse Walman will give for leaving Oilers after his current contract expires. Apply it to other Americans!

 

[Johnny Concussion]

Speaking like someone who hasn’t seen someone from their community bring the cup home.

zzzzzzzz try harder. I've had a Stanley Cup winner drink a slurpee from my 711 down the street. Don't give a shit.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Gen Z thread

Buddy, this has been a thing said by Gen Xers since the 90s. It's still as nonsense as ever.

 

[JianYang]

Canadian teams have been to game 7 of the cup finals how many times in those 32 years.

I'm drawing a blank on others, but Edmonton x 2, Calgary, Vancouver etc.

It's hard to win the Cup, period.

Vancouver 1994, 2011 (both game 7 losses)

Calgary 2004 (game 7 loss)

Edmonton 2006, 2024 (both game 7 losses)

Ottawa 2007

Montreal 2021

 

[Korpse]

zzzzzzzz try harder. I've had a Stanley Cup winner drink a slurpee from my 711 down the street. Don't give a shit.

that's so cool. the pinnacle of sport.

 

[Bocephus86]

I honestly think theres a lot more situations where the media in canadian markets, especially Toronto and Montreal, create explicitly negative forms of pressure.

For the sake of argument, has there been a case in the last 20 years in the EPL or with the Sox/Yankees where a player was run out of town in the way Kessel was?

Couple examples off the top of my head from the Red Sox

1. Carl Crawford
2. David Price
3. Bill Buckner, while a long time ago (80s), was a very good MLB player and his name was only ever mentioned with vitriol under 2004.

The Boston Red Sox media is famous from slamming the hell out of players.

For another, Jaylen Brown, while still currently on the Celtics, has spent his entire career seeing the media talk about trading him away, and it is again the hot topic on all of sports radio & local TV again.

Edit: Another good example from the Sox is happening right now - Rafael Devers has gotten a ton of hate, and a lot of talk that he's going to 'eat his way out of playing'. Seems like the same type of media attention you are referring to with Kessel, but I can't be sure since I am not in the Toronto media market so I don't see the coverage you do / have.

And that is an important point - you don't see the pressure in other cities because you are not living amongst their concentrated fanbase and aren't subjected to the local media coverage.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So good drafting is just lucky because someone didn't take them first? That is literally insane.

IMO you can make a case that the Wings would have taken Dats/Zberg earlier if they were confident that they were as good as they ultimately turned out to be.

It's also not even remotely what I said. To quote my post that you responded to - "Even with great scouts identifying really good prospects, there's still a certain amount of luck involved in getting really good NHL players in the late 1st or early 2nd." In other words, it's not "just lucky", nor is it "just skill". It's a combination of both.

And, if the Wings believed that Datsyuk or Zetterberg were going to be that good, they absolutely should have drafted them earlier. Why would they purposefully give other teams that many chances to get them first? The fact that they didn't draft them earlier tells me that they probably got a little bit lucky, in addition to being pretty good.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Maple Leafs talk pressure of playing in Toronto | Globalnews.ca

Craig Berube took a seat behind the microphone.

globalnews.ca

Well.

 

[Price is Wright]

It's hard to play in Canada because in the 21st century every Canadian franchise has had terrible Presidents, GMs, and coaches at various points in time.

 

[The Panther]

I said it is harder to build in Canada because being in Canada sucks

Let me guess... You've never been to a slum in Bangkok?

 

[The Panther]

The 31-year thing is getting a bit unbelieveable, and it kind of goes against the odds when you look at how many Canadian franchises have made the Cup Final (going to game 7, in many cases) and then lost. But it's just a case of the Canadian franchise not being as good in that Final, so it is what it is.

When I was kid, an Alberta NHL club was in the Finals 8 straight seasons (1984-1990) and won six of those Cups. This seemed normal.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

...the Flyers seriously have a statue of their late owner? lol

Pretty low bar in Philly, they used to have a statue of the old lady who sung the anthem back in the day.

Then someone pointed out some “questionable” records she put out in the 1940’s, including the banger “That’s Why Darkies Were Born”

There’s not a statue of her anymore

 

[Egresch]

This has nothing to do with pressure. People talk about high pressure in Toronto, but it is nothing compared to several US pro sports teams. Also, comparing to other sports, this is nothing:
India - Pakistan cricket
Big rival games in football (soccer) or basketball. You can watch some highlight from Belgrade or Istanbul derby games. Playing for top football team, you become global superstar and will be recognized all over the world. In hockey, you can be a superstar in MTL, but nobody recognizes you on the road in US.
It is not the pressure, it is just bad management and disparity in the league (big advantage for some US teams due to taxes).

 

[TheGreatPandasage]

Is this the hockey equivalent to can he do it on a rainy night at Stoke

 

[SUX2BU]

 

[McGees]

Lol.
No.
You just make less money and are adored by fans.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is it just too hard to play and win a Stanley Cup in Canada?

Is the media too much?
Are there too many taxes?
Is it too cold?
Way too many no-movement clauses with Canadian teams on them?
Is the salary cap too strict?

Is it all of these, one of these or none of them?

What is the issue here? 32 years since the last cup win for a Canadian team.

It’s 90% about the money and taxes.
10% about the weather.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Florida is a very good example of someone who didn't.

Most teams get a foundation through the draft, but building strictly through the draft or getting secondary free agent signings is a lot harder.

Winnipeg is the extreme example, they need to target players without NTCs/NMCs and free agent signings likely cost a premium.

A dipshit like Treliving gifting the Panthers their star player probably helps.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

It’s 90% about the money and taxes.
10% about the weather.

As someone from the north, I don't believe this. The lack of sun makes you feel like **** and warmer weather is more comfy.

It's probably all those factors together + media pressure. You can probably quite freely walk around cities in USA but not Canada.