Is it too hard to play in Canada?

[Grifter3511]

I think it is harder to build a team in Canada, you mostly have to do it through the draft.

Some Canadian cities are much harder (Winnipeg) to build in than others.

Anyone saying taxes, weather, and the media don't contribute has no clue.

Even if there are "world class cities" in Canada, there is a US city that offers the same or more, so there isn't an attractiveness to Toronto when New York and Chicago exist, Montreal and Vancouver are probably more unique and intriguing to some than Toronto.

The only thing they have going for them is players coming home.

When players get there, it depends on the person, but yes for some, no for others.

There is definitely more media pressure and some fans are insane, not sure this should dictate the play of some players, but I am sure it is easier to play for some with no pressure.

It's also the best place to play when you are winning.

Does this apply to Non-Americans as well? Honestly curious if the average European would prefer to live in Canada or the USA.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Dallas was winning a lot in the 90s, they do not belong on this list.

Yes, then sucked ass for 8 years, now are good again. Its cyclical. You suck, build up a good core, go on some runs, then suck again, rinse and repeat.

Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston are now in the suck stage when they were in the championship stage before.

Its really not hard to understand.

 

[Grifter3511]

Ah yes, Pittsburgh. A beautiful city, with tropical summers and incredibly mild winters. Plenty of sun and tons of beach weather. Great ski resorts and top notch air quality. Really puts living in Vancouver or Montreal to shame.

Edit: Pittsburghians, please don't take serious offense here. This was made as a tongue-in-cheek response to the blanket idea of American Cities > Canadian Cities. There are numerous American cities that are nicer than Canadian ones, but there are also numerous American cities worse than the Canadian ones. Then you throw in all the 'politics' that we shouldn't talk about (gun laws, daily school shootings and mass murders, amazing president, etc etc) and some of those Canadian cities look even better.

 

[MadLuke]

Does not need to be hard at all, it just need for the other place to be preferable to most, as it is 100% relative to the other options.

Hockey player tend to love golf and work in the cold, we can imagine that they prefer California-Florida to Alberta.

If we look where people live in Canada, it is mostly the most south they can.

If we look in the previous 25 years, net internal us state migration:

It is all hot climate state gaining, some of it could be laws-politics that tend to correlate about being more often legal to build housing in them (as seen in California exodus caused by housing cost), but I think there is some revealed preference hot > cold, even Texas type of hot in the general trend, it is not some cheaper close to Canada state that is getting people.

When you are hockey player rich, you have a strong AC in your house, workplace, in the luxury car, people to mow your lawn and what not you rarely suffer from the heat if you do not choose to because you want to.

I do not think crowd-media pressure is necessary a big deal, MTL won 24 cups and it is compensated by a lot of player that dream of it and would love it.... Pronger going from Edmonton to Anaheim was not because that crowd-city was one of the most intense/loud during their playoff run of that year.. My guess that it was the part that he loved the most about Edmonton.

Canadian's team did not suddenly won it all (or got that close) when it was in empty covid arenas...

 

[Cyclones Rock]

My post only applies to playing in Toronto. Maybe add Montreal to that.

I had the opportunity to get to know a former NHLer pretty well. I asked him about whether he wanted to play in Toronto as he grew up in the Province. He said that before he turned pro that he did but after talking with guys who played there, he said that he was told it's a brutal place to play and his mind changed.

It's a sample of one, I know. But the microscope on players in Toronto or Montreal is so much greater than it is in other NHL cities. My guess is that there's a much greater upside when things are going well (adulation/endorsements/etc) but when things aren't going so good that the downside isn't very pleasant.

If I were a GM of Toronto or Montreal, I'd take into account not only a player's on ice abilities but his ability to withstand some brutal criticism from time to time. A thick skin is probably an essential ingredient for a star player to have in a major Canadian market.

 

[Brookbank]

It’s not even close lol. Nobody cares about hockey nearly as much as European football fans care about their sports. Hockey isn’t even the dominant sport in toronto anymore…

Does anyone know how someone could be this out of touch ?

Just because the Redwings are bad and have faded from view in Detroit, he thinks this is the same for Canada ? Beats me.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Ah yes, Pittsburgh. A beautiful city, with tropical summers and incredibly mild winters. Plenty of sun and tons of beach weather. Great ski resorts and top notch air quality. Really puts living in Vancouver or Montreal to shame.

Edit: Pittsburghians, please don't take serious offense here. This was made as a tongue-in-cheek response to the blanket idea of American Cities > Canadian Cities. There are numerous American cities that are nicer than Canadian ones, but there are also numerous American cities worse than the Canadian ones. Then you throw in all the 'politics' that we shouldn't talk about (gun laws, daily school shootings and mass murders, amazing president, etc etc) and some of those Canadian cities look even better.

This is for regular people. Millionaires don't care about the stuff you listed.

 

[onetweasy]

I’m not the president but I can still criticize policy. I pray for the day people stop using this horrible, horrible, completely meaningless argument.

To answer the question, if hockey players can’t take the pressure of a Canadian market, they probably shouldn’t be pro athletes. Hockey is an irrelevant sport in the grand scheme of things. Canada just cares as much about hockey as the US does about baseball and football. There has never been a hockey player who has ever lived who faced more pressure than the Yankees do every year. Or the Red Sox. And then there’s European soccer, which is in an entirely different tier of pressure. Playing in toronto isn’t even in the top 10 of most intense situations in North America.

To answer the question, here is a list of personal hot takes........

 

[Salsero1]

Yes, then sucked ass for 8 years, now are good again. Its cyclical. You suck, build up a good core, go on some runs, then suck again, rinse and repeat.

Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston are now in the suck stage when they were in the championship stage before.

Its really not hard to understand.

There only ever seems to be a problem when southern teams are consistently doing well...

 

[RedHawkDown]

Does anyone know how someone could be this out of touch ?

Just because the Redwings are bad and have faded from view in Detroit, he thinks this is the same for Canada ? Beats me.

I live in ontario dude. It just sounds like you’ve never been to Europe lol

 

[MadLuke]

I live in ontario dude. It just sounds like you’ve never been to Europe lol

Well there is 2 different statements, euros soccer fans vs canadian nhl fans part and hockey not being number 1 in Toronto anymore.

In term of fansbase, intensity, etc... even if it is not the most played sport anymore, hockey is still number 1 with a good margin right ? fanbase-caring about wise ?

 

[avocadosmoothie]

the taxes are a factual, material disadvantage. copers will argue that the no-tax states don't have a significant advantage though

 

[GordonGraham]

My question would be more like why are hockey players so scared of the big unfair media in place like Montreal and Toronto but baseball players all wanna play for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and all NFL players wanna play to the Dallas Cowboys even if media pressure is tenfold

 

[GordonGraham]

stop living in the past.

Its been nearly a decade since Pittsburgh won. Longer for the others.

Sunbelt is the new meta.

Yeah San jose Anaheim, Phoenix/Utah were all powerhouses the past few years

 

[Brookbank]

I live in ontario dude. It just sounds like you’ve never been to Europe lol

I am Dutch. It's called population density. It might give the impression that footy is more popular in Europe than hockey is here. But it's not true. All national sports are the same. They are taken very seriously by a large percent of the population.

There has been around 20 sports related riots in Europe and north America since 1990 and Canadian hockey is represented in 6 of them. The 2 biggest ones being Vancouver in 1994 and 2011. If anything Canadian hockey punches above it's weight

 

[Breakers]

Contract structure depends entirely on how much taxes you pay and it can be less in Canada in some instances

The head of the guy from Newports sports went through this
So did that loud mouth Allen wash

If you’re entirely salary, you’re paying taxes at the rate of those 42 road games locations

 

[ItWasJustified]

I had the opportunity to get to know a former NHLer pretty well. I asked him about whether he wanted to play in Toronto as he grew up in the Province. He said that before he turned pro that he did but after talking with guys who played there, he said that he was told it's a brutal place to play and his mind changed.

If you ever talk to him again, please say that we on hfboards think he's a wuss.

There has been around 20 sports related riots in Europe and north America since 1990

There's fans fighting in the streets with each other and the police every time three of the big Stockholm football teams play each other.

Both SHL players and referees have received death threats this past season. I've never heard any of them crying about "the pressure" of playing or reffing in the SHL.

 

[Cleatus]

Does this apply to Non-Americans as well? Honestly curious if the average European would prefer to live in Canada or the USA.

At this time, due to all the political nonsense, (wealthy) Europeans might actually prefer Canada, but during more normal times, they'd likely highly prefer the US (as for the most part, if you're rich, major cities have a lot more to offer in America).

 

[Golden_Jet]

No it’s not

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Is this uniquely a hockey thing? All you see in other sports is players trying to force their way onto teams with the biggest spotlights.

My theory is that hockey players typically come from wealthier families (from rural or suburban areas) and are much more sheltered because of that. They probably don’t handle confrontation or public criticism as well.

 

[MoneyManny]

nothing special other than all players want to play in these markets (and not in Canada), and they all seem to sign for much better bargain contracts than those that teams in Canada or northern American cities have to pay.

But maybe its nothing.

Lots of players have had great contracts on Canadian teams. I guess it's easy to find one on a Florida team and use them as an example for a decade.

 

[MoneyManny]

I think it's a top down problem for the most part. Ownership groups in Canada run their organizations more as old boys club it would seem. Not that the rest of the league is terribly open to new ideas and fresh faces but you see it a lot more often. It feels like for most Canadian teams the hires for President of Hockey Ops, then GM, AGM and Head coach have to be more of a name brand because they are selling to fans and media that are going to be more critical so nothing can be too outside of the box. Dubas is probably one of the only outliers here and well, he was an idiot in disguise.

The other issue I see is an accountability self preservation thing. Coaches, GMs, get far too much rope when they underperform because firing them would be an indictment on the boss who hired them. There's no good reason why Shanahan should still have a job. Rutherford is a complete merchant of chaos.

Basically for the most part I think it's dumb people making dumb decisions.

This. Montreal just broke the mold and everyone's been extatic including the players.

 

[Theodore450]

Is it hard to play for Barca? For Madrid? For Manchester ?

Players need to grow up and realize they’re PAID to play for max 25min.

Absolutely pathetic gen z like mentality to think the issue is a expectations and accountability

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Can we not slam Gen Z? It is as stupid now as it was 18 years ago when Millennial was a curse word and it was all my fault for the state the world was in by the time I was old enough to vote

 

[MoneyManny]

My question would be more like why are hockey players so scared of the big unfair media in place like Montreal and Toronto but baseball players all wanna play for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and all NFL players wanna play to the Dallas Cowboys even if media pressure is tenfold

Because it's only ever used as a convenient excuse by players who fail to meet expectations.

Making a career in a quiet, non-hockey market and staying anonymous and irrelevant forever was the hockey dream of absolutely no one.