LittlePipes
Vortech V7
- Feb 22, 2020
- 1,917
- 2,070
Proposal: Is it time to change coaches
- Thread starter Mangosteen
- Start date
Really like Carle but the reason to replace tourigny is to bring in a proven winner.
Look at the point totals for the last four years. I forgot, you and deaf and blind.
I doubt very much BA or Bear's job is in danger. Let's see how the team plays next year when the pressure to make the playoffs begin.
Freakshow
Arizona Coyotes
Tourigny has to coach the team he's given, and right now, although an improving young team, there's still holes that need to be filled before they're a truly playoff competitive team. They're getting close with internal growth and by the addition of players from their drafts, but there's definitely gaps there.
Big summer for Bill Armstrong, he needs to acquire some top six talent to supplement what's already there, that will help Tourigny and give a better picture on coaching moving forward. Next year is a big year for the organization.
Big summer for Bill Armstrong, he needs to acquire some top six talent to supplement what's already there, that will help Tourigny and give a better picture on coaching moving forward. Next year is a big year for the organization.
The answer is yes: 22nd under RT, then 31st, 27th, 27th, 18th this year. We still finish 10 points out of the playoffs this year roughly 85 points. Is that enough? Its a lot harder to go from 85 to 95 points and make the playoffs then it is to go from 77 to 85 points. It seems like we might just miss the playoffs next year as well, maybe low 90s in points if all goes well.
- Apr 9, 2018
- 1,261
- 1,311
My dear Jakey, more teams are"rebuilding" so we play easier opponents and it's more individual players that are stealing us points rather then team build or total lack of systems. Where would we be without Gunner, Serg, Veggie and Kerfoot. Each of them has stolen points for us. We are not a better team, but we do have better players.Look at the point totals for the last four years. I forgot, you and deaf and blind.
Coyotedroppings
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2017
- 6,274
- 6,357
cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
- 2,702
- 1,390
People are focusing on results but I think that is impacted by injuries, GM moves etc. So I judge a coach on how he handles that and how he handles the in game.
When Cooley and Guenther got hurt, it felt like AT really mismanaged lines because he tried to plug players without changing the system. That hurt the team. Yes, losing those players kills but other coaches have found ways through and he didn't even try.
In games where players have off days or teams adjust to the Utah play style (see Dallas for example), AT doesn't adjust at all. He just tries to continue to force results expecting good things to come.
There are moments in games where AT forces line changes to avoid penalties but also kills his own teams momentum. Can't forgive that when the team is trying to wake up.
I will give tons of credit for how this team has learned to win board battles and cycle so well without being a physical team. That is a huge credit to the staff I think.
I'm just at the point where I see coaches being the cause for leaving points on the board and that means we should have a change.
When Cooley and Guenther got hurt, it felt like AT really mismanaged lines because he tried to plug players without changing the system. That hurt the team. Yes, losing those players kills but other coaches have found ways through and he didn't even try.
In games where players have off days or teams adjust to the Utah play style (see Dallas for example), AT doesn't adjust at all. He just tries to continue to force results expecting good things to come.
There are moments in games where AT forces line changes to avoid penalties but also kills his own teams momentum. Can't forgive that when the team is trying to wake up.
I will give tons of credit for how this team has learned to win board battles and cycle so well without being a physical team. That is a huge credit to the staff I think.
I'm just at the point where I see coaches being the cause for leaving points on the board and that means we should have a change.
YotesFan47
Registered User
Man you guys are tough on this team.
Currently we are at the top of the bottom half of the league in goals against. 1 team in that group is a playoff team.
Goals for is less exciting where we sit middle of the pack in the bottom half.
It looks to me like we are roughly ~30 goals (combination for or against) away from being a playoff team. From my perspective, we have 3 holes, top 6 center, left wing, and right wing. Bjugstad and Carcone are both likely gone and account for 11 goals between them. So now we need 41. I also suspect Maccelli and his 8 goals gets traded. Brings us to 49. We'll round it out to 50 for simplicity. We need 2 25 goal scorers to make the playoffs. If Crouse can put up an extra 10 going forward, 2 20 goal scorers. They also need to be defensively responsible ideally.
Whatever that looks like is what we should be doing. My vote is Marner (14/3), trade for Marchment (4.xx/1), and with some luck, a 2c option.
Keller - Cooley - Guenther
Marchment - Center - Marner
Crouse - Hayton - Schmaltz
McBain - Stenlund - Doan
Kerfoot, O'Brian
Give AT the resources necessary to win and I think he does it. If not, can him, but give the guy a shot. He's had 4 years of relatively dinky rosters.
Currently we are at the top of the bottom half of the league in goals against. 1 team in that group is a playoff team.
Goals for is less exciting where we sit middle of the pack in the bottom half.
It looks to me like we are roughly ~30 goals (combination for or against) away from being a playoff team. From my perspective, we have 3 holes, top 6 center, left wing, and right wing. Bjugstad and Carcone are both likely gone and account for 11 goals between them. So now we need 41. I also suspect Maccelli and his 8 goals gets traded. Brings us to 49. We'll round it out to 50 for simplicity. We need 2 25 goal scorers to make the playoffs. If Crouse can put up an extra 10 going forward, 2 20 goal scorers. They also need to be defensively responsible ideally.
Whatever that looks like is what we should be doing. My vote is Marner (14/3), trade for Marchment (4.xx/1), and with some luck, a 2c option.
Keller - Cooley - Guenther
Marchment - Center - Marner
Crouse - Hayton - Schmaltz
McBain - Stenlund - Doan
Kerfoot, O'Brian
Give AT the resources necessary to win and I think he does it. If not, can him, but give the guy a shot. He's had 4 years of relatively dinky rosters.
I agree that Bear has had 4 years of a mediocre roster. But, the team has never over performed, we are never above expectations or far below expectations. I think mid 80s in points was a reasonable expectation from the start of the year, likely close to the over/under at the start of the year Vegas odds. I think Bear has been ok as coach, not great, not bad.
I think it's hard to judge a coach when a team is rebuilding. Look at Tort's for example. Great coach but got tired of trying to teach young kids the winning ways in the NHL. AT is really at the opposite end of the spectrum at coaching in the NHL. AT has done a good job in my eyes with what is has been given over the years. Next year will tell us if he is the coach to take us to the next level, and it's really the first year that the playoffs are expected. BA as well will be judged how this team plays next year.
Llewzaher
Registered User
I think the team plays like AT coaches :
They work real hard , and get in a bit of a 3 game streak , where they look unbeatable..then they start falling off and making mistakes.. like bad defense, bad passes, bad shooting accuracy.. AT doesn’t say much because they still pulled out a win , or they still skated or worked hard..and he wants to be their friend.
Then after a 3 or 4 game losing streak , AT gets them all back in shape , and we look unbeatable again … Whew ..great we got that out of our system, now we can go win games … rince an$ repeat…
The difference between AT and a great coach, is that a great coach isn’t happy by just winning.. they can see that if a certain habit , or something continues, it’s going to cause issues down the road..
At the start of the year , our offence was incredible… we made accurate passes, we actually new how to score…, but then we were playing loose, with no pressure..
As soon as it looks like we might make the playoffs, we fall apart..
I predict that once we are eliminated we will play incredible ..just like last year after it was announced the team was leaving
AT needs to raise the bar , not be happy with just wins, but how we won… he needs to have this team ready to go every game ..
Basically, he needs to coach , like how he wants the team to play , and not take nights off
They work real hard , and get in a bit of a 3 game streak , where they look unbeatable..then they start falling off and making mistakes.. like bad defense, bad passes, bad shooting accuracy.. AT doesn’t say much because they still pulled out a win , or they still skated or worked hard..and he wants to be their friend.
Then after a 3 or 4 game losing streak , AT gets them all back in shape , and we look unbeatable again … Whew ..great we got that out of our system, now we can go win games … rince an$ repeat…
The difference between AT and a great coach, is that a great coach isn’t happy by just winning.. they can see that if a certain habit , or something continues, it’s going to cause issues down the road..
At the start of the year , our offence was incredible… we made accurate passes, we actually new how to score…, but then we were playing loose, with no pressure..
As soon as it looks like we might make the playoffs, we fall apart..
I predict that once we are eliminated we will play incredible ..just like last year after it was announced the team was leaving
AT needs to raise the bar , not be happy with just wins, but how we won… he needs to have this team ready to go every game ..
Basically, he needs to coach , like how he wants the team to play , and not take nights off
I hope Cooley, Gunner and Doan will do better next year as well. Also, without injuries should hopefully add to that goal total. Marchment has a year left on his contract so I doubt the Stars are interested in trading him at the moment. Marner could be interesting but would come with pro's and con's. There will be trades for sure as we have to get better and I don't see any forwards in the system, except may But, making the NHL roster opening night.
YotesFan47
Registered User
As long as we see progression, I'm happy. I don't need a Stanley Cup today, I need a dynasty tomorrow.
- Apr 9, 2018
- 1,261
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Ok, it looks like to me he coaches like The Great one. Go out and play the best you can. Very limited system on 5 on 5 and no system for power, they just rely on skill. The only system I see is when they try and protect a lead and that's 1 in 3 middle and 1 man back and possibly zone coverage. Please explain to me what system the Bear has tried to install, and mistake free hockey is not a system
YotesFan47
Registered User
Absolutely. I think we see growth from many, if not all of our young NHLers, we'll probably also see some struggle from some. This whole thing is a process, and not a short one.
I would do term on Marner if the AAV could be sub $10m. 90 point forwards are hard to come by, and we'll need a few if we expect to win a cup. I don't think Dallas wants to move Marchment either, but they could need to move cap out. If we make it lucrative enough, they may bite. He looks to be the best option for a player with his tools/skills and potential to be available.
You are not going to get Marner sub $10mil. Not even close.
Read on the TML page he is in process of a 14.5 million per deal.
YotesFan47
Registered User
I agree, my point was I'd sign him with term of he had an AAV around $10m. I don't think it's wise to sign him to a big, long term contract, not because he's not worth it, but they seldom work out.
I've said before that I'd give Marner $14x7 but it sounds like he might get even more money than that. You make a good point though. For the first four years of that contract it would probably be worth the money, then in years 5-7 who knows?
- Apr 9, 2018
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I really have liked the way our defense has played over the last 20 games or so. We have shut down teams. We have outshot teams in many games. Injuries hurt us early in the year. Then Gunther and cooley were out.
We outplayed some teams and make a couple big mistakes that cost some games that we deserved better.
I like where this team is going.
We outplayed some teams and make a couple big mistakes that cost some games that we deserved better.
I like where this team is going.
