Is hockey dying in Quebec ?

[bossram]

I'm just saying that the cost of hockey is a false debate. In my time, my teammates were not very rich. Then when you have a passion you invest your money in it. I spent very little on video games, no drugs, no scooter, no PC, no CDs.

The real advantage is the proximity to an ice rink and the trainers. Youth from urban areas have an advantage.

Elite talents are privileged in their lives. A guy like James Scantlebury, was hosted at Lake Saint-Louis and now lives in Florida.

This is not the reason why the level has temporarily dropped. The real reason is the emergence of Europe, USA and Russia. The level is higher.

An international NHL like today in the 80s and half of the Canadian players disappear.

LMAO. What is "your time"? Played minor 30 years ago?

Obviously at the pro ranks, Europeans and Americans will crowd out Canadians. That's not what I'm saying. You're asserting that "talent is talent" and that will win out. Then what we should see among Canadian pros is that they're backgrounds are fairly diverse (given we assume talent is normally distributed). That's not what we see. Canadian pros (especially NHLers) are almost uniformly from wealthy backgrounds.

Elite minor hockey is very expensive. Thousands off the bat for league fees. $10+K for travel teams and tournaments. Thousands more for private training (everyone else is doing this, so if you're not, you're falling behind). Thousands for top line equipment. If you're making 60K, you can't afford that.

Hockey enrollment is also just declining. Because it's too expensive. And this will eventually filter it's way up in the Canadian ranks.

And I'm still waiting for you to find where I said hockey should be free and rich people banned. Still waiting on that. Find that quote where I said that my guy. Or you can take your L, that you are blatantly wrong.

 

[Zenos]

Problem of guys who repeat what is written on the internet and don't know the country.

1700 euros is the median salary in France.

There's no way the median salary here in Germany is double France's.

Either you're mixing up gross / net, simply trolling us all, or you're completely delusional.

 

[abo9]

Sorry if you don't speak French. You'll have to translate.
Basically got sick with some of the local associations who don't welcome change for the better of everyone because they want to continue to rule in their own little castles.

Jocelyn Thibault quitte prématurément Hockey Québec

« Déçu », « usé », Jocelyn Thibault quittera de façon prématurée la direction générale de Hockey Québec, en juin prochain.

www.lapresse.ca

I played minor hockey in QC between 2005-2015

It was very similar back then. At least in my local association, it was all about cliques and money and their own selfish desires to see their kids become the next Crosby.

Those kids would become better overall due to the sheer amount of money spent on them, but they all amounted to nothing.

Tryouts were also a big scam. The best teams had their cliques, they didn't have "open spots" on the teams. They'd just know which parent were dumb enough to throw money at tryouts, camps, etc.
Each cut survived was another couple hundreds to continue. Ultimately, they just extended the tryouts so parents had the impression that their kids "were so close".

After 4 "cuts", parents had already paid their hockey season twice, and usually their kid wouldn't even make the team. The association would approach them about a training camp or summer hockey... another few hundreds or thousands out the window. Next year they'd last a little longer in tryouts (and pay more money!!)

Big big, money making machine. Hockey? secondary

 

[Bradely]

I think you are underrating basketball, look at Jamaal Murray and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. For like 20 years it felt like it was Steve Nash and nobody from Canada. A lot of people think Canada may medal at the Summer Olympics.

I would add Football also.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I am not selfless enough to enroll my children in hockey. Not only is it crazy expensive, I would need to give up my weekends as well to travel to the tournaments and the expenses that come with that. They can play a cheaper sport through school like soccer or volleyball.

Facts are, if I can afford 10k a year for a 1% chance at making it as a pro or put 10K into the system compounding at 10% and they have an education paid for and a head start in life.. I am doing that.

 

[joelef]

It isn't only Quebec.

Accessibility to hockey is dying all over due to cost and factors like demographic changes that have more kids playing cheaper, safer, and more popular sports like basketball and soccer.

Cost certainty plays a part but the biggest issue with hockey is cultural. Hockey isn’t seen as “ cool “ . Traditional “ Canadiana “ comes off as extremely corny . Basketball is heavily tied with hip hop why the nil biggest stars are completely nonexistent to the general public along with the fact that nhl , hockey Canada etc.. are just realizing now the demographic changes of both countries when alarms should’ve been set off years ago.

 

[joelef]

It was said tongue-in-cheek. But the point is that the sport is trending towards being a rich kids sport. It’s always been expensive but it’s gotten much worse.

In Minnesota, for one example, the wealthy suburbs of Minneapolis now win almost every state tournament. Those kids are going to expensive power skating camps (Diane Ness) and doing dry-land work and other things that the blue collar parents can’t afford. Turns out if an average kid works really hard and learns to skate really fast, they can advance. It’s a black eye for the sport IMO - becoming more like golf & tennis

Parents in edina are paying 5000 dollar for land dry training while diverse inner cities , first and second rings suburbs are all surviving on co- ops/ merging programs and no one in charge seems to care.

 

[Mathieukferland]

At 12 years old, a guy who played in the NHL is way above all the kids at his school, stop talking nonsense. Or maybe he had just taken his beginner's license.

Guys who reach the world elite like Lipon are the top 0.001% of hockey players.

Either you’ve never played or you’ve never been involved in minor hockey. I played Auston Matthews when he was 13 and I was 13. You would think a top 5 player in the NHL and the best goal scorer in the world would be better than everyone by a mile?

No, not the case. He was out scored in our league by several players, most of whom did not advance beyond minor hockey and only 1 of who made the NHL (Tyson Jost).

I’ll give you an example. At the time, here is the starting 5 of players I played against in their teens who I though were the best players I had seen

Jeremy Bracco-Tarek Baker-Alex Jasiek
Christian Evers-Michael Davies
Luke Opilka

Vs 6 best by career outcome
Jason Robertson-Auston Matthews-Matthew Tkachuk
Adam Fox-Noah Hanafin

See the difference between 12 years old and what they become?

I don’t know his Matthews’ financial circumstances but my point was he was not limited by Cost

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Everyone has mentioned it being extremely expensive.

The other side is that hockey-Parents (who are more affluent) are educated and are now well read on the effects of CTE, and concussion. I have 2 nephews who were among the top players in their U15 division, but their mom won't let them enter a full-contact league to see how far their hockey ability could take them.

And why would she?

The oldest is in Cejep and is looking at applying to Medical school, and the other one is on the honor roll looking to get into aeronautical engineering at McGill.

They're playing hockey for fun. Why the hell would she let her kids join a full contact league knowing what we now know about brain injuries?

 

[Mathieukferland]

What happened with Jocelyn Thibault?

He resigned as the head of hockey Quebec, he wasn’t able to say why publicly but he was frustrated with the way the organization worked and he couldn’t change it

 

[Spargon]

Yes it is, and no, putting a team in Quebec City won't fix it. The team would fail.

 

[sxvnert]

Hockey died there a long time ago. Rise of % overseas players, demographics changes, interest from the younger gens (sports in general) at an all time low.

 

[MNRube]

Parents in edina are paying 5000 dollar for land dry training while diverse inner cities , first and second rings suburbs are all surviving on co- ops/ merging programs and no one in charge seems to care.

Yeah, it’s embarrassing. There is no chance Minnetonka and Edina kids are that much more athletic than the rest of the state.

 

[varsaku]

What’s Alphanso Davie

One of the best soccer players in world in his position (Left Back) and plays for one of the best teams in the world (Bayern Munich). Being the first Canadian to achieve this has brought him into the spotlight. Also Canada making it to the world cup after a long time also improved his popularity.

 

[joelef]

Everyone has mentioned it being extremely expensive.

The other side is that hockey-Parents (who are more affluent) are educated and are now well read on the effects of CTE, and concussion. I have 2 nephews who were among the top players in their U15 division, but their mom won't let them enter a full-contact league to see how far their hockey ability could take them.

And why would she?

The oldest is in Cejep and is looking at applying to Medical school, and the other one is on the honor roll looking to get into aeronautical engineering at McGill.

They're playing hockey for fun. Why the hell would she let her kids join a full contact league knowing what we now know about brain injuries?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

They just one the Telus cup. So probably not

 

[joelef]

It’s

Yeah, it’s embarrassing. There is no chance Minnetonka and Edina kids are that much more athletic than the rest of the state.

hockey Minnesota doesn’t seem to care that the game is moving further and further out to the exurbs and private schools. Along with no action on rural hockey demise as well.

 

[Stanley Cup]

I'm curious about the actual participation numbers. Here in Quebec City, hockey no longer is a cool sport. I'm in my 30s and even in my time you could see it fell off a cliff, the kids would stop playing at the age of 12. Football took over and it is much more accessible as it is for the most part organized and financed by the school system. Soccer is also, as others have stated, very popular. Pro hockey barely makes the headlines/conversations.

I don't believe the economic argument though. Despite what some chronically frustrated people might say, data suggests the region is richer than ever and has been growing at a good pace for 20 years now. We're still producing high end athletes, albeit in other sports. See Canada Games medals count to see Quebec is dominant at producing athletes.

 

[rogking65]

I have a couple cousins in Quebec, two families that each have young sons. I'm not even going to ask them if they have plans to put the boys in hockey. They can't even afford day care and the mortgage / rent as is. Those are going to be soccer players.

so hockey is cheaper in other provinces ? or the people are poorer in Quebec ?

 

[Brent Burns]

Nobody can afford the ridiculous cost anymore

 

[jigglysquishy]

The shift in Canada from hockey to basketball is real.

There are now 27 NBA players from Canada, making Canada the largest producer of NBA talent outside the US. There are about 330 Americans in the NBA. Which means that per capita, Canada produces about 70% as much NBA talent as the US. In the 70s and 80s Canada produced under 1% of the US per capita for basketball talent.


About 50% of the Canadian NBA players all time are currently in the NBA.

The growth of basketball in Canada has been an explosion. You can see it with record youth participation across the country. TV viewership continues to hit new heights, backed by the Raptors win.

Basketball is the market leader for new Canadians. The NHL is barely ahead of NFL and MLS.

 

[ghost85875]

The problem is rooted in politics.

There's no accountability in the governement, so the mentality of corruption trickles down to the organisations and the society.

Plus Quebec is the highest in America when it comes to taxes, regulations, etc.

Bad state of mind and not enough money.

 

[joelef]

The problem is rooted in politics.

There's no accountability in the governement, so the mentality of corruption trickles down to the organisations and the society.

Plus Quebec is the highest in America when it comes to taxes, regulations, etc.

Bad state of mind and not enough money.

It has nothing to do that with. Sports like nfl nba soccer etc.. is considered “ cool” and “urban “ and there stars are visible to American and Canadian public.

 

[landstuhltaylor]

None of this is really shocking. I went to high school and played a little bit with Kreider when he was a freshman. I never would have thought he would be a star in the NHL at that time. But while I bounced around random homes he went off to private school, and along with his natural talent and physical gifts and the resources to develop them he made it.

It's really just a less extreme version of racing. I work with 2-3 guys who have run quite a few ALMS races, another former coworker who has run a few Nascar events. A few friends that had ALMS paid rides that dried up with Covid, and run against former Indy/CART drivers. The best driver I know from that group is currently just doing driver instructions for truly WEALTHY guys at private track days. He doesn't have the sponsor money to get a full time gig, so when another driver on the team wrecked the car at an event at the beginning of this year, basically half of their program got canceled. I am faster than a few of those guys, slower than a few, and under no illusion of anything other than just doing amateur racing and being a plug on my beer league hockey team.

It is what it is. A very very select few will get through on raw talent and luck, and then there are the Nikita Mazepins of the world at the other extreme.

 

[Foppberg]

One of the best soccer players in world in his position (Left Back) and plays for one of the best teams in the world (Bayern Munich). Being the first Canadian to achieve this has brought him into the spotlight. Also Canada making it to the world cup after a long time also improved his popularity.

Ah. Never heard of him, or the team. That’s cool though. I think it’ll be a long time if ever that it takes over hockey though. It’ll take multiple generations and even then, I imagine at some point there’d be a push back.