tony d
New poll series coming from me on June 3
I think it is. Lemieux did come close in 1992-1993 but 153 points in 51 games is 3 ppg. That's otherworldly.
Short shift game evolved due to NHL rules expanding the number of skaters on a roster, allowing coaches like Mike Keenan to win (briefly anyways) just by rolling 4 lines at the highest intensity the players could handle. Many 1975 stars, most notably Lafleur and Sittler, went off a cliff once this change arrived, effectively speeding up the league by another 25-50% right when their legs started to slow down due to age.As for the talent surge of "fast skaters," why were there so many older skaters surviving into 1992-93? More 35 year olds, more 33 year olds, more 30 year olds. The 1984 guys seemed to survive better into 1993 than the 1975 guys did into 1984. If there was a surge of talented young legs displacing older players, it came closer to 1984 than 1993.
To answer the OP's question - it's one of Gretzky's, Orr's or Lemieux's best stretches. No one matched those 3 at their best.
Gretzky's 51 game is certainly a worthy contender for #1. I expect both Lemieux and Orr have similar stretches that could be worthy of consideration too.
In terms of simple statistical domination, it's hard to compare Gretzky to Lemieux in their respective best years (be it 93, or 89 for Lemieux) because the league scoring rates were different.
mcdavid has tried his best so far to reach the level of Kucherovs 128 points but has failed.153 in 51 is not a contender its the clear cut winner.
no player in history can claim this type of dominance through a 51 game stretch. Lemieux gave it his best and failed.
See Lemieux 92-93
Guy scored 5 goals and then 4 games. 9 goals in 2 games lol. 56 points in 20 games jheeezThis.
I think Mario Lemieux's 1992-93 season was the single greatest achievement in professional sports history. Even more than Chamberlain scoring 100 points in an NBA game.
While the numbers alone are eye-popping, consider Mario accomplished this feat while feeling extremely fatigued--then being treated for cancer--then battling back after his final treatment to put the NHL through a shredder and winning the scoring crown.
The physical and emotional greatness needed to accomplish what Mario did was unmatched in sports history. Toyed with the best sports league on the planet while fighting cancer. Stop it.
I can't see any argument for this... at all.This.
I think Mario Lemieux's 1992-93 season was the single greatest achievement in professional sports history. Even more than Chamberlain scoring 100 points in an NBA game.
While the numbers alone are eye-popping, consider Mario accomplished this feat while feeling extremely fatigued--then being treated for cancer--then battling back after his final treatment to put the NHL through a shredder and winning the scoring crown.
The physical and emotional greatness needed to accomplish what Mario did was unmatched in sports history. Toyed with the best sports league on the planet while fighting cancer. Stop it.
I don't think we've ever seen that level of play or that level of dominance from any athlete in any major North American sport for such an extended period of time and we may never see it again. I feel like that was probably the absolute ceiling, where arguably the greatest player ever was at his personal greatest.
1. | Babe Ruth | 59 |
2. | Bob Meusel | 24 |
Ken Williams | 24 | |
4. | Tillie Walker | 23 |
High Pockets Kelly | 23 | |
6. | Rogers Hornsby | 21 |
7. | Harry Heilmann | 19 |
8. | Cy Williams | 18 |
9. | Austin McHenry | 17 |
10. | Bobby Veach | 16 |
Jimmy Dykes | 16 | |
Elmer Smith | 16 | |
Jack Fournier | 16 |
1. | Babe Ruth | 54 |
2. | George Sisler | 19 |
3. | Tillie Walker | 17 |
4. | Cy Williams | 15 |
5. | Irish Meusel | 14 |
Happy Felsch | 14 | |
7. | Elmer Smith | 12 |
Shoeless Joe Jackson | 12 | |
9. | Bob Meusel | 11 |
High Pockets Kelly | 11 | |
Bobby Veach | 11 | |
Aaron Ward | 11 | |
Wally Pipp |
I can't see any argument for this... at all.
The "greatest achievement in professional sports history" is not when you miss 1/4 of the games and then your team is upset in the playoffs.
Just watching a game from 84 and 93 the difference is extremely evident. I’m sure I don’t have to bring up Gretzky in his late 20’s and already unable to put up 65 goal seasons
he almost had more assists then trotter and statsny combined . WHAT THE PUCKYes, it's possible that Gretzky from autumn '83 to January '84 was at his very best ever, in terms of regular season performance.
Here's how the NHL stats looked after January 27th, 1984 (the last day of Gretzky's point streak, and one game prior to his going down to injury):
Goals
61 - Gretzky
40 - Vaive (He had 40 goals in 49 games...! Slumped a bit after this.)
39 - Kurri
38 - Goulet
38 - Bossy
Assists
92 - Gretzky
51 - Trottier
51 - Stastny
47 - Coffey
47 - Pederson
POINTS
153 - Gretzky
85 - Kurri
83 - Bossy
79 - Trottier
79 - Stastny
Even-Strength Points
101 - Gretzky
64 - Bossy
62 - Kurri
60 - Goulet
60 - Trottier
Plus / Minus
+71 Gretzky
+46 Bossy
+43 Goulet
+42 Trottier
+40 Coffey
Power-play points
35 - Gretzky
32 - Daoust (Yes, Dan Daoust of the Leafs!)
28 - Federko
Short-handed points
17 - Gretzky
7 - Messier
6 - Nilsson
6 - Carbonneau
Shots on Goal
217 - Gretzky
212 - Ogrodnick
199 - Bourque
Shooting Percentage (min. 40 games)
30.2 - Kurri
29.1 - Goring
28.1 - Gretzky
27.6 - Yzerman
26.8 - Goulet
Much of this damage was done in November 1983, which is almost certainly Gretzky's greatest-ever month in the NHL: In 14 games, he scored 17 goals and 49 points, while going +32.
Just as impressive was his team, Edmonton's, dominance in the League. Up to their 51st game of the season (a tie with New Jersey), Edmonton's record stood at:
38 - 8 - 5
which meant they were pacing for 127 points on the season. After Gretzky went out with a shoulder injury for six games, the Oilers went 1 - 5 - 0 without him (including the infamous 11 - 0 loss to Hartford).
How blasé was the hockey world becoming towards Gretzky's genius during this period? He scored 50 goals in 42 games and it didn't even merit headlines or any particular notice.
Well, if he hadn't lost six games to injury in 1983-84, he likely would have won the goals-title by 37 or 38 goals, and the scoring race by 100 points over the next non-teammate.he almost had more assists then trotter and statsny combined . WHAT THE PUCK
!!!!!!!!!!!!!Well, if he hadn't lost six games to injury in 1983-84, he likely would have won the goals-title by 37 or 38 goals, and the scoring race by 100 points over the next non-teammate.
As it is, he won the scoring race on January 7th, 1984 (game 42 of the season).
Gretzky didn't maintain the Superman goal scorer levels. Does that mean the league got significantly better when he turned 27-28?
Probably not. Brett Hull started dropping 70 goal seasons. Then he dropped off. Did the league suddenly get harder to score in because Hull didn't hit 60 after he was around the same age as Gretzky?
No. It was 92-93. High goal totals for everyone. Scoring 70 all the time is hard to keep up.
The other half for Gretzky was that he stopped shooting as much on the powerplay. Until 1991 he was still a solid ES goal scorer though. Gretzky's 33 ES goals don't sound like a lot, but after 1990, Lemieux scored 33 ES goals in a season once.
I wouldn't quite go that far. In his first three seasons after turning 30, he was:Gretzky just didn't age well after 30.
So we've got two seasons with a high offensive output. How can we tell which is more real and which is more a fluke or from lesser competition?
These numbers are unreal. Seems Wayne really did have a "short career" when it came to dominate goal scoring, though he still did score on the regular until his final few seasons.
I just wish he never got injured in the early 90s. Would have loved to see what his final goal tally could have been. I doubt we would even be talking about Ovi catching him. Ovi has had the luxury of injury free thus far.
I imagine it depend of the value HR had back then because:
1921
1920[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1. Babe Ruth 59 2. Bob Meusel 24 Ken Williams 24 4. Tillie Walker 23 High Pockets Kelly 23 6. Rogers Hornsby 21 7. Harry Heilmann 19 8. Cy Williams 18 9. Austin McHenry 17 10. Bobby Veach 16 Jimmy Dykes 16 Elmer Smith 16 Jack Fournier 16
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1. Babe Ruth 54 2. George Sisler 19 3. Tillie Walker 17 4. Cy Williams 15 5. Irish Meusel 14 Happy Felsch 14 7. Elmer Smith 12 Shoeless Joe Jackson 12 9. Bob Meusel 11 High Pockets Kelly 11 Bobby Veach 11 Aaron Ward 11 Wally Pipp
That would be a good candidate
1920 | Runs | RBI | "Points" |
Ruth | 158 | 135 | 293 |
Sisler | 137 | 122 | 259 |
Add to that he had a streak from the previous season I think 8-9 games. I am reminded of a quote about Babe Ruth,
“Some 20 years ago, I stopped talking about the Babe for the simple reason that I realized that those who had never seen him didn't believe me.”
- Tommy Holmes (sportswriter).
That's a 13% lead which is healthy but doesn't seem overwhelming.
1. | Alexander • CHC | 12.6 |
2. | Ruth • NYY | 11.8 |
3. | Sisler • SLB | 9.9 |
4. | Hornsby • STL | 9.6 |
5. | Bagby • CLE | 9.0 |
6. | Coveleski • CLE | 8.8 |
7. | Speaker • CLE | 8.5 |
8. | Grimes • BRO | 8.1 |
9. | Shawkey • NYY | 8.0 |
10. | Collins • CHW | 7.9 |
1. | Ruth • NYY | 11.9 |
2. | Sisler • SLB | 9.8 |
3. | Hornsby • STL | 9.6 |
4. | Speaker • CLE | 8.5 |
5. | Collins • CHW | 7.9 |
6. | Jackson • CHW | 7.5 |
7. | Bancroft • 2TM | 6.8 |
8. | Youngs • NYG | 6.4 |
9. | Jacobson • SLB | 6.0 |
10. | Roush • CIN | 5. |