Is Evgeny Malkin a generational talent?

[Savannah Skunk]

The term is getting watered down. Franchise player, IMO, is a guy who's going to be the best on your franchise. Generational talent means a guy who's the best in the NHL. Not just "one of the best." It's a term we can use to separate the Gretzkies, Lemieuxs, Orrs, Howes, and even Crosbies from the rest.

Once in a generation.

Okay, one generation = roughly 20-30 years?... based one whoever's perception. Lets use an average of 25.

In that period dating back from today, three of the names you mentioned have played. There is more than ONE player with generational talent, 'once' per generation as you state. There may also be a few players you are omitting.

Lemieux and Gretzky stirred the debate of the best player of 'all-time' as does Crosby now; they hold many records and will likely do so for the foreseeable future. Brodeur - his records, accomplishments and longevity (combined with Stanley Cup rings) not to mention the most wins of any goaltender in the history of the NHL solidifies him a spot in the 'generational' category. Patrick Roy, Hasek, and Lidstrom could be others.

Generational players are players that are so good, they are in a class of their own that separated from franchise/star players (eg: Blake, Forsberg, Modano, Yzerman, Chelios, Leetch, Kurri, Fuhr, Cujo, Bure, Pronger, McInnis, Chara, Karlsson, Tavares, Kane, Hasek, Hossa, etc...,... the list goes on.)

As for the original posters query, ... Malkin certainly could be a generational talent. Or is he Gretzky's 'Messier?' ... and was Messier a generational talent....

 

[Wrath]

So Crosby doesn't stat pad against terrible teams? 8 points in 2 games vs the Sabres...Please try to see past your bias.

You are talking like 5000 years of human evolution has passed in 20 years of ice hockey. Laughable.

Everyone is faster? No

2012 Carl Hagelin 13.218 seconds
2011 Michael Grabner 14.238 seconds
2009 Andrew Cogliano 14.31 seconds
2008 Shawn Horcoff 14.395 seconds*
2007 Andy McDonald 14.030 seconds
2004 Scott Niedermayer 13.783 seconds
2003 Marian Gaborik 13.713 seconds
2002 Sami Kapanen 14.039 seconds
2001 Bill Guerin 13.690 seconds
2000 Sami Kapanen 13.649 seconds
1999 Peter Bondra 14.640 seconds
1998 Scott Niedermayer 13.560 seconds
1997 Peter Bondra 13.610 seconds
1996 Mike Gartner 13.386 seconds
1994 Sergei Fedorov 13.525 seconds
1993 Mike Gartner 13.510 seconds
1992 Sergei Fedorov 14.363 seconds

Actually, Hagelin in 2012 was the first year that they restructured the fastest skater competition. Two skaters now do half-width laps from same start/end line rather than having two skaters line up across from each other (widthwise) and doing a full lap of the rink.

Hagelin in 2012:


Fedorov in 1994:



Unfortunately there's not any good videos (steady camera angle) of Gartner's record win, but here is a mashup of the 1996 fastest skater competition:



TL;DR: Nobody up from 1996-2011 could beat Gartner's record, they changed the format of the competition in 2012, so times are no longer comparable.

 

[Savannah Skunk]

I'll always think of him as a notch below the other two. He's just not quite there in my opinion. Great, great player but he doesn't make the list when I think 'generational talent.'

Crosby is. Ovechkin is. I don't think Malkin is quite there.

Because he isn't 'the' guy on the team. Imagine him on a team without Crosby and ask that question again.

 

[Namba 17]

Malkin could quite possibly be viewed as the best Russian forward in history.

Don't think so.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Is this even remotely a serious question.


Seriously, I was closing my laptop but I saw this post on the main page as I was shutting it and had to stop and open it up again just to respond.


Yes. Yes he is.

 

[AJRAYMOND]

He's the best player on the Pens. Watch the games. When Geno is healthy he's the best player in the league.

 

[Gurglesons]

Don't think so.

I meant to put in the NHL. Obviously players like Kharlamov, Firsov, and Makarov will always be the Russian standard. I really think Ovie and Malkin will end up being the two best Russian players in the NHL at forward though.

 

[shelf]

Franchise-Kopitar, Sundin
Elite-Stamkos, Sakic,
Generational-Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby?

IMO Malkin falls inbetween Elite and Generational.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I agree with people saying Crosby is on the same level as a Sakic or an Yzerman. And to me, Malkin is a little notch below that.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

I think Malkin's a generational talent, but won't necessarily have a generational career if that makes any sense. If I had to pick one player at his best to win me a single game, it's Malkin hands down, but if I had to pick a player to build an organization around for the next 20 years, it's probably Crosby.

Crosby/Ovie are very clearly going to be the faces of this generation looking back, so I guess Malkin's going to be the Jagr to their Gretzky/Lemieux. He's good enough to be #1, just came into the league at an unlucky time.

 

[tohaa]

The fact that Crosby, OV, and Malkin were all drafted in a two-year span is ridiculous. No one even comes close to the impact that these three have made on the league since coming in.

 

[tohaa]

Franchise-Kopitar, Sundin
Elite-Stamkos, Sakic,
Generational-Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby?

IMO Malkin falls inbetween Elite and Generational.

Well alright, we can consider that as an "opinion"

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yes, I think so. He's been overshadowed by Crosby by the media and other outlets. If there was no Crosby, most of us would've been calling Malkin the best player in the world all these years, and Malkin is not very far behind, and arguably not behind at all. So yes, if Crosby is considered a generational talent, which he generally is accepted as, then so is Malkin.

 

[tohaa]

If Bylsma would've played Malkin (or Crosby for that matter) extensively on the PK, he would be view in the same light as Federov defensively with the offensive statistic to back it up. I would argue Malkin could quite possibly be viewed as the best Russian forward in history.

No. Fedorov was simply the best defensive forward to ever play. Guy could play actual defence and produce points at the same rate as Malkin does as a relatively irresponsible forward. Fedorov at his best was the best player to ever play the game. Shame that it did not last very long, but in terms of best Russian forwards, Malkin is a few steps behind Fedorov, Ovechkin, Makarov.

 

[shazariahl]

Jesus that's comical. Different game completely. Defense and net minding is ten times what it used to be. Not to mention the salary cap has nearly leveled the playing field, so stat padding against crappy teams isn't possible anymore.

No doubt Yzerman and Sakic were great, but come on dude, Crosby is better by far.Your opinion is that the above named players' game would translate to today, when every single athlete is stronger, faster, more conditoned and a lot closer in skill level to their peers. I have the opposite opinion. I think players have never been better than they are now and I truly believe that the only players game who may translate to today's game is Lemiuex. You can dance around in this league anymore untouched. You don't get wide open passing lanes to get 8 assists in a game anymore. The game today is almost unbearable to watch because it's so damn robotic and defense is so good and scoring is so low.

But if those players played today, they'd have the same conditioning and equipment too. We've seen countless players like Jagr, Selanne, Chelios, Bourque, Lidstrom, Hasek, etc all play well past their primes into the twilight years of their careers and still be great players. There is no reason to think that someone like Gretzky couldn't have done the same if he'd been born 15 or 20 years later. Unless you think players from the 80's would be incapable of learning how to eat better food, or use a treadmill, I don't think training and conditioning make any difference.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Hes a Franchise Player and possibly he will shine on a different team. Eventually. So Id say yes for now

 

[shazariahl]

No. Fedorov was simply the best defensive forward to ever play. Guy could play actual defence and produce points at the same rate as Malkin does as a relatively irresponsible forward. Fedorov at his best was the best player to ever play the game. Shame that it did not last very long, but in terms of best Russian forwards, Malkin is a few steps behind Fedorov, Ovechkin, Makarov.

Fedorov, at his best, was not even close to being as good as Gretzky or Lemieux. His best 1 or 2 seasons don't even come close to Gretzky's best 6.

 

[daver]

I know that most people agree that Crosby and Ovechkin are, but is Malkin one too? I would say yes. He's always in Sid's shade, but we know how dominant he is.

What do you mean by "generational"?

If you are asking if Malkin would be included as one of the top 3 players in the last decade, then yes he is.

If you are asking if Malkin would be included as one of the top 2 players in the last decade, its debatable between him and OV but probably not.

 

[daver]

Yes. I will always argue Malkin is better than Crosby. I'd rather have him on my team over Crosby for sure.

Let's hear those arguments.

 

[The Greatest 101]

He's score.

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Without a doubt. There's not much difference between Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Brooklanders*]

I know that most people agree that Crosby and Ovechkin are, but is Malkin one too? I would say yes. He's always in Sid's shade, but we know how dominant he is.

I never felt Malkin was a generational talent and I still don't.

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

To me Niklas Lidstrom and Chara would be ahead of Malkin in that category.

Several players can match Malkin stats.

Malkin has never dominated like Mario, Gretzky, Crosby, Jagr, Yzerman, or say Sakic for instance.
To me a dominate player is a generational talent?

Malkin had one season of pure magic. That's not enough for me and the fact he floats around the ice and has no interest in playing defense is frustrating.

I would take Ovechkin over Malkin any day of the week.

 

[madinsomniac]

I never felt Malkin was a generational talent and I still don't.

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

To me Niklas Lidstrom and Chara would be ahead of Malkin in that category.

Several players can match Malkin stats.

Malkin has never dominated like Mario, Gretzky, Crosby, Jagr, Yzerman, or say Sakic for instance.
To me a dominate player is a generational talent?

Malkin had one season of pure magic. That's not enough for me and the fact he floats around the ice and has no interest in playing defense is frustrating.

I would take Ovechkin over Malkin any day of the week.

I don't think you watch much of malkin. he had a down season once, but for the most part he is the most dominant player on the ice most nights. in his career, he is 11th all time in points per game, and save for the stretch with james neal, has played the majority of his career on lines with subpar wingers.

There are a ton of quotes from NHL players talking about how people underrate him playing defense, and when he is on his game, he is one of the best defenders on the ice.(most recently from Bennett iirc). there is a reason he is used as a defensive center in international play quite a bit.

If anything, his bad stretches come when he tries to do too much himself, not because of "floating"... Id argue that he is hands down the most talented player in his generation, but not the best because he has played in the shadow of Crosby. I don't know if that makes him generational or not

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Yes Malkin is a generational talent. A generational talent is a player capable of winning the scoring title and a cup in the same year, putting up 100+ points and being one of the 3 most talented/productive players at the current time. And yes there can be multiple generational players at the same time. If a player is most likely going to be in the top 10-15 on the all time scoring list at the end of their careers then they are absolutely one.

Current Generational players: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Alex Ovechkin . First 2 are consistently usually the top 2-3 scorers year in and year out and perennial 100+ point scorers. Ovechkin is by far the most dominant goal scorer and will finish his career with 600-700+ career goals.

Generational players of the 80s-90s: Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Ray Bourque, Jaromir Jagr, Nik Lidstrom. Nothing needs to be said of these guys. All of them are top 10 players at their positions of all time and dominate the all time scoring list/are multiple cup winners (except Bourque but at least he has the one and is a top 3-4 best dman of all time if not #2)

Generational players of the 60s-70s: Phil Esposito, Marcel Dionne, Guy LaFleur, Bobby Orr. These guys are legends. If they played in today's era they would produce even more then Crosby and Malkin do. Orr is the best dman of all time and Espo and Dionne are two of the best goal scorers ever and LaFleur was a dynamo.


Then there are several players who were on the cusp of generational but just fell short by a tad. These would include Ron Francis, Stan Mikita, Johnny Bucyk, Gilbert Perreault, Bryan Trottier along with several others.

 

[FinProspects]

Malkin is definately the sexier choice over Crosby. But to say he is better is just wrong and incorrect. Same goes for Ovie vs Malkin.

That said Malkin is a generational talent IMO, but will always be overshadowed by Crosby and Ovechkin, rightfully so.