Win One Before I Die
Cautious Optimism
- Jul 31, 2007
- 5,119
- 4
Is every other team more disciplined, is it a ref bias, or what is it?
- Thread starter Bougieman
- Start date
Human nature and social group dynamics being what they are I take it as given that this is a factor, unconscious or otherwise.
Scary thing is Burrows hasn't played yet, but he's been the most affected. Last 2+ years he's been a choir boy but regularly gets the 2 minutes for being Alex Burrows penalty. Not seeing how those discrepancy numbers get better once he's back.
I also suspect there is a perception out there that the continued success of Sedinery (and really this whole us v the Refs thing started not long after Sedins became elite) must somehow imply that the twins get away with a lot of pics and interference, too subtle to be called consistently, so they compensate by not calling offenses taken against them, but for which other stars would normally get the benefit.
Pip
Registered User
I agree with those saying it's from a number of factors, and not necessarily a league side conspiracy. I think we aren't as fast of a team as we once were, and there is some personal bias from a good number of referees because we made a lot of them look foolish with out dives in the past. I do also agree, that as Canucks fans, we will notice all of the calls that don't go our way, and miss the calls that do which will exaggerate this type of feeling with the refs being against us.
The biggest thing that I don't understand is the non-calls against the Sedins. It just doesn't even faze me anymore when they're blantantly obstructed and no calls are made.
The biggest thing that I don't understand is the non-calls against the Sedins. It just doesn't even faze me anymore when they're blantantly obstructed and no calls are made.
Pip
Registered User
The "best" diver is likely someone we wouldn't expect at all, considering that a good dive is one in which everyone thinks there's a legitimate call there
bsjezz
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2011
- 895
- 0
theoretically corsi is only calculated from 5-on-5 play, though i'm not sure if that applies to all versions of the statistic out there.
Over the last nine games, Canucks have averaged 1.9 PP opportunities per game. That's barely over half as many as the average team. So essentially the rest of the league manages to commit half as many infractions when they play the Canucks as when they play any other team.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
Also is it just me or does it seem like in every game when the penalties are slanted against us that at least once when we do get the odd PP we quickly get assessed another penalty and taken off it?
I don't know if the numbers back it up, but this is just my biased fan impression when watching games. Normally I try to separate this from my overall analysis when posting, bu since we're on the topi anyways...
I don't know if the numbers back it up, but this is just my biased fan impression when watching games. Normally I try to separate this from my overall analysis when posting, bu since we're on the topi anyways...
Amazing that given the amount of power that the name Aquilini possesses in Vancouver they can't even at least lobby the league on getting fairer calls. Being realistic, I'm sure every team lobbies to an extent (cough Boston) but I would have imagined that the Aquilinis would have their say in the league. Hard to make any assumptions on what exactly happens in the backrooms though.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I believe the NHL owners group is more of an old boys club. Boston owner Jeremy Jacobs has been around forever and is Chairman of the NHL's Board of Governors. Aquillini in comparison regardless of his success in the business world in the NHL is just some new kid on the block. We could be owned by Bill Gates and it probably wouldn't make a difference.
baxtefer
Registered User
- Aug 8, 2012
- 209
- 1
We've played 11 games against 10 teams so far this year.
8 of these 10 teams took fewer penalities against us than they've averaged against other teams in all their other games.
Or looking at it another way, in 9 out of 11 games, the opposition took fewer penalties against us than they do on average against other teams
The only 2 games where teams took more penalties against us than they did against other teams were the first game against San Jose (which was a penalty-filled game where SJ still had more PPs than us) and Edmonton (where we flat-out dominated them at ES)
This isn't statistically significant, but in such a small sample size this isn't a surprise. But the trend is obvious.
Team
|Avg PK/G|Avg PK/G vs. Other Teams|PK/G vs. Canucks
BUF|3.20|3.22|3
CBJ|3.22|3.25|3
CGY|3.22|3.50|1
EDM | 3.60 | 3.33 | 6
MTL|4.22|4.38|3
NJD|2.78|2.88|2
NYI|2.78|2.88|2
PHI|4.75|5.29|1
PIT|2.89|3.13|1
SJS | 3.22 | 3.14 | 3.5
8 of these 10 teams took fewer penalities against us than they've averaged against other teams in all their other games.
Or looking at it another way, in 9 out of 11 games, the opposition took fewer penalties against us than they do on average against other teams
The only 2 games where teams took more penalties against us than they did against other teams were the first game against San Jose (which was a penalty-filled game where SJ still had more PPs than us) and Edmonton (where we flat-out dominated them at ES)
This isn't statistically significant, but in such a small sample size this isn't a surprise. But the trend is obvious.
BUF|3.20|3.22|3
CBJ|3.22|3.25|3
CGY|3.22|3.50|1
EDM | 3.60 | 3.33 | 6
MTL|4.22|4.38|3
NJD|2.78|2.88|2
NYI|2.78|2.88|2
PHI|4.75|5.29|1
PIT|2.89|3.13|1
SJS | 3.22 | 3.14 | 3.5
ShouldveDraftedFiala
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2007
- 1,964
- 220
What makes it even more obvious is the fact that we've outplayed / held possession for the majority of the games so far this year, even the ones we've lost (maybe aside from the SJ games).
DL44
Status quo
I honestly don't think it's a sinister conspiracy by the refs for past egregious acts to get us or some sort of utter disrespect for the twins...
I think it's a little more simple than that... I just don't think refs are used to calling penalties on plays at the speed the twins play.
It's the style the Twins play. I've watched basically the opposition hang off of them for years now, and not get the calls that deserved to be called...
Nothing new this year..
They don't play with speed once in the zone on the cycle and controlling the puck with their little 5-10 foot passes ... Just like their game, they get held, hooked, interfered at a lower speed. I just don't think refs are used to calling penalties on plays at that speed.
don't know if that makes sense... kinda hard to explain.
Obviously not the complete answer.. just a theory i've been thinking about for awhile now..
Let's not lose sight of the fact the amount of interference the twins get away with themselves because of the speed of their game as well... all those mini-picks they do also are not called because the nudges are so slight and low speed... with the offending twin almost at a dead stop at the time... they are brilliant at the accidentally-on-purpose pass and pick play. if they are moving any faster or on the rush... the whistle is blowing every time...
I think it's a little more simple than that... I just don't think refs are used to calling penalties on plays at the speed the twins play.
It's the style the Twins play. I've watched basically the opposition hang off of them for years now, and not get the calls that deserved to be called...
Nothing new this year..
They don't play with speed once in the zone on the cycle and controlling the puck with their little 5-10 foot passes ... Just like their game, they get held, hooked, interfered at a lower speed. I just don't think refs are used to calling penalties on plays at that speed.
don't know if that makes sense... kinda hard to explain.
Obviously not the complete answer.. just a theory i've been thinking about for awhile now..
Let's not lose sight of the fact the amount of interference the twins get away with themselves because of the speed of their game as well... all those mini-picks they do also are not called because the nudges are so slight and low speed... with the offending twin almost at a dead stop at the time... they are brilliant at the accidentally-on-purpose pass and pick play. if they are moving any faster or on the rush... the whistle is blowing every time...
Gumballthechewy
Chew On Me!
me2
Go ahead foot
I think you might be on to something here, good post.
Overall this isn't a speedy team especially on the top line, and we let one of our speedsters walk (Raymond). If you try to cut to the net at high speed, get hooked or tripped and fall down spectacularly, you will draw a penalty almost every time. The Sedins cycle game sometimes means being stationary or going at a slow speed while establishing desired positioning. It's almost like they let a lot of interference go if the offensive player is just trying to establish position in the offensive zone without the puck.
That doesn't completely explain why stuff is let go that is being committed against our puck carriers. Maybe it's just the Sedins being steadier on their feet because they aren't flying at high speed. From the refs viewpoint; 'Yeah, that's a hook, but they battled through it without being hauled down. I'm not blowing the whistle.'
Pip
Registered User
You don't think a ref ends up seeing the footage later in which they got fooled? They get the reputation that way as well
Wilch
Unregistered User
- Mar 29, 2010
- 12,225
- 487
Excellent post.
Never really considered it, and I guess I really do have my homer glasses on, not looking at it from this perspective.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
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This. Unfortunately I don't see it ever happening. Accountability is something that's apparently foreign to the head office.
What really should happen is the media making a big stink about it. But all they ever seem to be interested in doing is ripping on the team, making up rumours and focusing on petty issues that have no significance.
Wilch
Unregistered User
- Mar 29, 2010
- 12,225
- 487
It's been bad halfway through the 2010-11 season, where, had the officials continued to give us the same amount of PP throughout the second half, would give the Canucks a record setting season in PP chances.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
- 16,808
- 4,048
ddawg1950
Registered User
Torts says team has been talked to and they are nt going to dive.
He also says he was aware of the Canucks rep for diving and whining before he got here.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/1...-dive-and-i-hope-we-get-some-gawd-damn-calls/
Explains some things.
He also says he was aware of the Canucks rep for diving and whining before he got here.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/1...-dive-and-i-hope-we-get-some-gawd-damn-calls/
Explains some things.
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