Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[Arthur Morgan]

Why do people have to be disenginous about this argument?

It's pretty easy.

Either you value championships as a definitive criteria to justifying an elite player's legacy or you don't.

Fine with either view point in my book. Why do we have to act like Crosby losing a Ross to Benn or being outscored in his late 20s while McDavid was in his prime head to head is the reason?

they are just like LeBron fans. just want their fav player to be the best in the world without earning it.
Crosby's points are barely even a downgrade to McDavid's and he trumps McDavid in just about every area outside of offense.

I find it hard to justify McDavid over Crosby or even being in the top 5 this early. I wouldn't even rank McDavid over Lidstrom who might be the best Dman Ive seen in my life time or Hasek who is prob the best goalie ive seen in my life time.

So, you attack me based on something I didn’t say…but figured I would, so you thought I might as well beat him to it and get worked up over something I never said….

Ya that makes total sense…

You can keep attacking my reading skills or call
Me “annoying” all you want. It only makes you look silly. You clearly lack any and every ability to NOT make personal attacks while debating because you have no argument at all.

Whether or not McDavid is my favorite player has nothing to do with it, but you saying that further reinforces my point

I said it before you had the chance to take it in that direction, pretty simple to figure out.

lol well I disagree, you been making yourself look silly for about a week in here now.

McDavid has less points and no cups. he doesnt even deserver to be among the top 5 this early let alone over Crosby. guy is around the half way mark of his career. why not let him earn his place among the best?

 

[GreatGonzo]

they are just like LeBron fans. just want their fav player to be the best in the world without earning it.
Crosby's points are barely even a downgrade to McDavid's and he trumps McDavid in just about every area outside of offense.

I find it hard to justify McDavid over Crosby or even being in the top 5 this early. I wouldn't even rank McDavid over Lidstrom who might be the best Dman Ive seen in my life time or Hasek who is prob the best goalie ive seen in my life time.


I said it before you had the chance to take it in that direction, pretty simple to figure out.

lol well I disagree, you been making yourself look silly for about a week in here now.

McDavid has less points and no cups. he doesnt even deserver to be among the top 5 this early let alone over Crosby. guy is around the half way mark of his career. why not let him earn his place among the best?

So, you don’t feel like Lebron has “earned” his argument as the greatest?

I mean those are interesting takes, but I feel a majority of people have McDavid over those two at this point in time. But you are entitled to your opinion regardless

I’m not the one who has to resort to “learn to read!” Every time they don’t like where the conversation is going

Of course he has less points, Crosby has a full 10 years more in the league that’s like attacking Crosby for having a lower PPG than McDavid at this point in their careers…as for cups, yes a cup would be beneficial, but a cup isn’t going to magically make him a better leader or player.

Well, IMO he has already earned his place among the most elite. He’s up there flirting with the 5-10 spots as we speak. That’s pretty impressive to be up there at this point.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

So, you don’t feel like Lebron has “earned” his argument as the greatest?

I mean those are interesting takes, but I feel a majority of people have McDavid over those two at this point in time. But you are entitled to your opinion regardless

I’m not the one who has to resort to “learn to read!” Every time they don’t like where the conversation is going

Of course he has less points, Crosby has a full 10 years more in the league that’s like attacking Crosby for having a lower PPG than McDavid at this point in their careers…as for cups, yes a cup would be beneficial, but a cup isn’t going to magically make him a better leader or player.

Well, IMO he has already earned his place among the most elite. He’s up there flirting with the 5-10 spots as we speak. That’s pretty impressive to be up there at this point.

it's not a feeling. he's not placing over MJ. their argument stops at their finals records. MJ's 6-0 along with his personal stats trump LeBron's 4-6. also many more reasons.

just like Dan Marino. considered the best QB to ever play the game. can't get past Brady and why is that? oh yeah one wins and the other doesn't

what direction is the conversation going? Im telling you your wrong and you have nothing to counter with, McDavid has not done enough yet to warrant over stepping Crosby yet. it's that simple. you literally have NOTHING to help your argument.

no cup doesn't put you among the best of all time only 9 seasons into your career. and no he hasn't. honestly prob questionable to even place McDavid over
Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr. I dunno if Id place McDavid over Yzerman or Sakic right now this early into his career.

McDavid can be a better player and still not pass these players on the all time list. that's what you dont understand.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Are we still holding it against mcdavid that the Oilers haven't won a cup with him?

Yes. It's always been that way with any player. Probably dumb and not fair but it's the way these things always go.

 

[GreatGonzo]

it's not a feeling. he's not placing over MJ. their argument stops at their finals records. MJ's 6-0 along with his personal stats trump LeBron's 4-6. also many more reasons.

just like Dan Marino. considered the best QB to ever play the game. can't get past Brady and why is that? oh yeah one wins and the other doesn't

what direction is the conversation going? Im telling you your wrong and you have nothing to counter with, McDavid has not done enough yet to warrant over stepping Crosby yet. it's that simple. you literally have NOTHING to help your argument.

no cup doesn't put you among the best of all time only 9 seasons into your career. and no he hasn't. honestly prob questionable to even place McDavid over
Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr. I dunno if Id place McDavid over Yzerman or Sakic right now this early into his career.

McDavid can be a better player and still not pass these players on the all time list. that's what you dont understand.

I understand, but that in no way makes it equivalent to McDavid vs. Crosby.

When was Marino considered the best to play the game? You are reaching on that one buddy

That’s my point, you are telling me I’m wrong without anything to prove that you are right. Basically saying “I’m right, you are wrong…deal with it!”

And what about everything else he has accomplished? Not having a cup doesn’t devalue the already crazy resume he has.

Ok I’ll play, how hasn’t McDavid passed Sakic or Yzerman at his point? Even Jagr…because cups? Is that really the only deciding factor for you?

Well that makes zero sense, if a player is better then he’s a higher notch on any list.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes. It's always been that way with any player. Probably dumb and not fair but it's the way these things always go.

thats sports. the best of the best are weighed by their championship and ability to win. but that doesnt mean some plug that has multiple championships will rank over the best of all time.

but when you got the elite of the elite. when it comes down to ranking them winning helps. also if McDavid never wins it's not the end of the argument. chances are once he either wins a cup with his trophy case he has or atleast passes most these players in points it will be impossible to not rank him up there

but 9 seasons into his career, no cups and yet to pass any of the greats in points. seems crazy to think he's already there

 

[GreatGonzo]

thats sports. the best of the best are weighed by their championship and ability to win. but that doesnt mean some plug that has multiple championships will rank over the best of all time.

but when you got the elite of the elite. when it comes down to ranking them winning helps. also if McDavid never wins it's not the end of the argument. chances are once he either wins a cup with his trophy case he has or atleast passes most these players in points it will be impossible to not rank him up there

but 9 seasons into his career, no cups and yet to pass any of the greats in points. seems crazy to think he's already there

Except his trophy case is superior to the likes of Sakic, Yzerman, and even arguably Jarg…and he’s only 9 years in..

That’s such a weird standard…who do you expect him to pass in points only 9 years in? I mean he is “there.” That’s why there are multiple threads discussing his place.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I understand, but that in no way makes it equivalent to McDavid vs. Crosby.

When was Marino considered the best to play the game? You are reaching on that one buddy

That’s my point, you are telling me I’m wrong without anything to prove that you are right. Basically saying “I’m right, you are wrong…deal with it!”

And what about everything else he has accomplished? Not having a cup doesn’t devalue the already crazy resume he has.

Ok I’ll play, how hasn’t McDavid passed Sakic or Yzerman at his point? Even Jagr…because cups? Is that really the only deciding factor for you?

Well that makes zero sense, if a player is better than he’s a higher notch on any list.

well Crosby has no part of that conversation. no one is arguing Crosby will over step one or more of Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr or Howe. fans trying to just slot him up there this early remind me of LeBron fans trying to name him the goat over MJ.

umm he's considered one of the best QB to ever play the game, not winning has impacted his all time ranking though.

like what? im sorry but it's still just not enough. what McDavid has done in impressive. but its still too early to just put him above Crosby. Ill agree McDavid is a better player but he doesnt pass Crosby alltime yet

and the difference is they are winners. Jagr has the 2nd most points in NHL history and won multiple cups. how exactly is McDavid ranking higher all time exactly?

no it does make sense. McDavid hasnt even played 1000 games yet man., he's one of the best players to ever play the game but he's not that high on the all time list yet. too early

 

[GreatGonzo]

well Crosby has no part of that conversation. no one is arguing Crosby will over step one or more of Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr or Howe. fans trying to just slot him up there this early remind me of LeBron fans trying to name him the goat over MJ.

umm he's considered one of the best QB to ever play the game, not winning has impacted his all time ranking though.

like what? im sorry but it's still just not enough. what McDavid has done in impressive. but its still too early to just put him above Crosby. Ill agree McDavid is a better player but he doesnt pass Crosby alltime yet

and the difference is they are winners. Jagr has the 2nd most points in NHL history and won multiple cups. how exactly is McDavid ranking higher all time exactly?

no it does make sense. McDavid hasnt even played 1000 games yet man., he's one of the best players to ever play the game but he's not that high on the all time list yet. too early

But the difference is there is an actual argument for Lebron being up there where as Crosby has no argument

Well you said he was THE best to play the game….might want to fix that. By the way, I read that just fine so that’s on you

“Like what.” So you are going to be deliberately obtuse about his MANY accomplishments? Or do they just don’t mean anything to you because Cup>all awards?

Because McDavid is the better talent and so far as the superior resume to all 3 at the moment. That’s why you don’t see anyone saying Sakic and Yzerman are better because they are “winners.” You are alone on that one, and it’s quite the lazy argument.

Why does it matter if he hasn’t played a thousand games? He’s already better and more accomplished than most who have played that many games already…

 

[Arthur Morgan]

But the difference is there is an actual argument for Lebron being up there where as Crosby has no argument

Well you said he was THE best to play the game….might want to fix that. By the way, I read that just fine so that’s on you

“Like what.” So you are going to be deliberately obtuse about his MANY accomplishments? Or do they just don’t mean anything to you because Cup>all awards?

Because McDavid is the better talent and so far as the superior resume to all 3 at the moment. That’s why you don’t see anyone saying Sakic and Yzerman are better because they are “winners.” You are alone on that one, and it’s quite the lazy argument.

Why does it matter if he hasn’t played a thousand games? He’s already better and more accomplished than most who have played that many games already…

no there really isn't though. LeBron cant even play a full season lol. he plays like half seasons. and needed like 4 or 5 more years and still chasing MJ.

well I dont know what to tell ya bud. but these all time slots arent just easy to over take. McDavid is still too young to justify it. I prob wouldn't place McDavid over OV right now either all time.

I value winning more than a player winning personal awards.

3 cups, 2 golds. sorry those are better than McDavid's awards

 

[GreatGonzo]

no there really isn't though. LeBron cant even play a full season lol. he plays like half seasons. and needed like 4 or 5 more years and still chasing MJ.

well I dont know what to tell ya bud. but these all time slots arent just easy to over take. McDavid is still too young to justify it. I prob wouldn't place McDavid over OV right now either all time.

I value winning more than a player winning personal awards.

3 cups, 2 golds. sorry those are better than McDavid's awards

And like I stated, MANY in basketball still have him as the GOAT or near it for obvious reasons.

“I don’t know what to tell ya bud.” Sounds more like you don’t have anything of value to say really. Again, Sakic, Yzerman, and Jagr are hardly ever considered “top 10” players all time while McDavid is basically there even without a cup.

So by your standards, Toews>McDavid. And again with the “personal awards” remarks...because Harts, Lindsay’s, and Scoring titles aren’t as impressive as a TEAM award

Clearly there is no logic in how you veiw things if “winning” is the only thing you value. Draper and Kunitz should be in your top players…all they ever did was win cups….they actually have more cups than Crosby, making them more of a “winner” than him by the way….

 

[Bluesguru]

There was no option of saying they're on the same level.
I'd be inclined to pick that.
But due to the choices, I can't say McDavid is clearly better than Crosby so I picked Sid as the better player.
Crosby still going strong at 36, and unfortunately he's not in his prime while the rebirth of goal scoring has reemerged in the NHL. Sid has played the majority of his career not to mention all of his prime during some tough scoring years in the NHL.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nobody thinks Crosby is a comparable player to Wayne Gretzky.

Only an idiot would think he is a comparable player to Mario Lemieux.

Gretzky is also around 5 years older than Lemieux. Crosby is around 10 years older than McDavid.



It's over. Crosby is behind McDavid becuase of a 4 game season in 2017 and 2018.

Thank you for your consistently impartial unbiased takes.

Close up the thread. The Great Gonzo has proven McDavid is a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as only he could.

Well gonzo’s been more partial than the Pens fans.

Just look at OP, for answer.
Comparing Crosby 3 rounds vs 4 rounds.
Original thread tainted everything, yet Pens fans see nothing wrong with the comparisons selected.

 

[Video Nasty]

no there really isn't though. LeBron cant even play a full season lol. he plays like half seasons. and needed like 4 or 5 more years and still chasing MJ.

I’m not a supporter of LeBron over Jordan at all. That being said, this off the cuff comment has little basis in reality.

He has averaged 71 regular season games per year for 21 years. That has a lockout shortened 66 games in 2011-2012 and COVID stoppage at 71 games in 2019-2020. He will become the all-time leader in minutes played before the end of the first half of the upcoming season and will likely have the second most games played by the end of the season. He is already the all-time leader in playoff games. Combine his regular season and playoffs, and he has averaged 85 games a year for over two decades straight.

“Like half seasons” is an extreme exaggeration. “Like three quarter” seasons isn’t even true.

I’m one of the biggest Jordan fans out there, but he didn’t have the stamina LeBron has. Hence why he retired twice by the age of 35, due to physical and mental fatigue.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

And like I stated, MANY in basketball still have him as the GOAT or near it for obvious reasons.

“I don’t know what to tell ya bud.” Sounds more like you don’t have anything of value to say really. Again, Sakic, Yzerman, and Jagr are hardly ever considered “top 10” players all time while McDavid is basically there even without a cup.

So by your standards, Toews>McDavid. And again with the “personal awards remarks...because Harts, Lindsay’s, and Scoring titles aren’t as impressive as a TEAM award

Clearly there is no logic in how you veiw things if “winning” is the only thing you value. Draper and Kunitz should be in your top players…all they ever did was win cups….they actually have more cups than Crosby, making them more of a “winner” than him by the way….

those MANY are kids mostly gen-z, they also ate tide-pods

we have been going in circles for like a week and already said Jagr is 2nd all time in points and has multiple cups..... what else is there to add here? it's not my fault you don't value winning championships and think regular season awards mean more. Yzerman and Sakic were also incredible players that played the game the right way and won multiple times.

McDavid very well could be a tier above Crosby but through their first 6 seasons I believe they were neck and neck, Crosby played in a lower scoring era and through first 6 seasons I think McDavid scored one more point than him. or maybe the other way around, then came the concussions and he still managed to get over it and still be among the best for rest of his career, who knows how Crosby's point totals would have looked if he never got concussed.

I've been told that Matthews' goal totals being higher than OV's at the same point in their careers isn't valued the same because OV did it in a lower scoring era. so I dunno why it would be different for McDavid.

and all time I think McDavid gets there eventually but right now I still dont think he's done enough

 

[GreatGonzo]

those MANY are kids mostly gen-z, they also ate tide-pods

we have been going in circles for like a week and already said Jagr is 2nd all time in points and has multiple cups..... what else is there to add here? it's not my fault you don't value winning championships and think regular season awards mean more. Yzerman and Sakic were also incredible players that played the game the right way and won multiple times.

McDavid very well could be a tier above Crosby but through their first 6 seasons I believe they were neck and neck, Crosby played in a lower scoring era and through first 6 seasons I think McDavid scored one more point than him. or maybe the other way around, then came the concussions and he still managed to get over it and still be among the best for rest of his career, who knows how Crosby's point totals would have looked if he never got concussed.

I've been told that Matthews' goal totals being higher than OV's at the same point in their careers isn't valued the same because OV did it in a lower scoring era. so I dunno why it would be different for McDavid.

and all time I think McDavid gets there eventually but right now I still dont think he's done enough

No, it’s a wide variety of various players(ex and current), coaches, analysts, and media. Again, if you had been paying attention to basketball over the years, the minute he broke the points record, many had their minds changed. Again, not my opinion….just all facts.

Because no one thinks Jagr>McDavid despite that. Much like no one really thinks Yzerman/sakic> McDavid….the right way? Ok what’s the “right way” and how does McDavid not play that way?….

I guess we will never know….all we have is what has happened.

Matthews is an amazing goal scorer but in terms of that alone, he has a long way to catch up to Ovechkin, only time will tell.

But you said cups>perosnal awards, so Toews should be ahead of him on any all time list, right?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I’m not a supporter of LeBron over Jordan at all. That being said, this off the cuff comment has little basis in reality.

He has averaged 71 regular season games per year for 21 years. That has a lockout shortened 66 games in 2011-2012 and COVID stoppage at 71 games in 2019-2020. He will become the all-time leader in minutes played before the end of the first half of the upcoming season and will likely have the second most games played by the end of the season. He is already the all-time leader in playoff games. Combine his regular season and playoffs, and he has averaged 85 games a year for over two decades straight.

“Like half seasons” is an extreme exaggeration. “Like three quarter” seasons isn’t even true.

I’m one of the biggest Jordan fans out there, but he didn’t have the stamina LeBron has. Hence why he retired twice by the age of 35, due to physical and mental fatigue.

pretty sure he retired after his father was murdered thinking he had nothing left to prove and his dad's dream I believe was to see him become a baseball player so he tried doing that then he came back and 3peated again. retired didnt have anything left to prove and when he came back it was after buying or becoming the owner of the Wizards? prob to help create a buzz.

but I mean like look at the pic below and yeah maybe its not exactly half seasons but he does miss alot of time.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

No, it’s a wide variety of various players(ex and current), coaches, analysts, and media. Again, if you had been paying attention to basketball over the years, the minute he broke the points record, many had their minds changed. Again, not my opinion….just all facts.

Because no one thinks Jagr>McDavid despite that. Much like no one really thinks Yzerman/sakic> McDavid….the right way? Ok what’s the “right way” and how does McDavid not play that way?….

I guess we will never know….all we have is what has happened.

Matthews is an amazing goal scorer but in terms of that alone, he has a long way to catch up to Ovechkin, only time will tell.

But you said cups>perosnal awards, so Toews should be ahead of him on any all time list, right?

I wasn';t saying Jagr over McDavid by the way but all time. McDavid hasn't passed him yet Im sorry

and yes I agree Matthews has a long ways to go. but at this point of both their careers. Matthews has currently more goals. but been told Matthews goals arent valued the same due to OV doing it in a lower scoring era. gotta era adjust. gotta be the same for Crosby vs McDavid,

its alot closer than u will ever admit. is McDavid a tier above Crosby as a player? it's possible but its also very possible that they are in the same tier.

all time lists take a while to pass players in. so its just too early for that. I know its not really the title of the thread but some consider him above guys like Howe, Orr or even Lemieux which just isn't possible only 9 seasons in without a cup

and no I mean winning cups isnt the end to all conversations. I think McDavid already exceeded Toews in point overall. so I think its safe to assume he ranks higher than Toews, Toews also wasn't that kinda player he was the guy that did everything right to win games. and those Chicago teams were alot better than the Pens teams Crosby won with. imo atleast

also Toews isn't in conversation to be placed 5th or even 10th overall all time, so not a great comparison

 

[GreatGonzo]

I wasn';t saying Jagr over McDavid by the way but all time. McDavid hasn't passed him yet Im sorry

and yes I agree Matthews has a long ways to go. but at this point of both their careers. Matthews has currently more goals. but been told Matthews goals arent valued the same due to OV doing it in a lower scoring era. gotta era adjust. gotta be the same for Crosby vs McDavid,

its alot closer than u will ever admit. is McDavid a tier above Crosby as a player? it's possible but its also very possible that they are in the same tier.

all time lists take a while to pass players in. so its just too early for that. I know its not really the title of the thread but some consider him above guys like Howe, Orr or even Lemieux which just isn't possible only 9 seasons in without a cup

and no I mean winning cups isnt the end to all conversations. I think McDavid already exceeded Toews in point overall. so I think its safe to assume he ranks higher than Toews, Toews also wasn't that kinda player he was the guy that did everything right to win games. and those Chicago teams were alot better than the Pens teams Crosby won with. imo atleast

also Toews isn't in conversation to be placed 5th or even 10th overall all time, so not a great comparison

Based on what?

I don’t understand what you are getting at, McDavid doesn’t have more points or a higher PPG than Crosby did within his first 9 years…

I never said it wasn’t close, I even said once that I see the argument with them being in the same tier with McDavid ahead at the moment.

We aren’t talking about them, we are talking about Sakic and Yzerman…

You realize you are now going against the very standards you set, right?….

3 cups, 2 gold medals>personal awards. Toews has those over McDavid, right?…

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Based on what?

I don’t understand what you are getting at, McDavid doesn’t have more points or a higher PPG than Crosby did within his first 9 years…

I never said it wasn’t close, I even said once that I see the argument with them being in the same tier with McDavid ahead at the moment.

We aren’t talking about them, we are talking about Sakic and Yzerman…

You realize you are now going against the very standards you set, right?….

3 cups, 2 gold medals>personal awards. Toews has those over McDavid, right?…

think I said 6 years. through the first 6 I believe thats around where the concussions started right?

Sakic and Yzerman I was talking about all-time. I would put McDavid above them on a higher tier list but I wouldnt rank McDavid over them all-time yet just like I think its crazy to put McDavid 5th all time already

and no not really. McDavid is still a ways from passing Crosby in points. winning cups isn;t the end of all conversations. I think at this point McDavid had done enough to warrant passing Toews though but not Crosby not yet

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Based on what?

I don’t understand what you are getting at, McDavid doesn’t have more points or a higher PPG than Crosby did within his first 9 years…

I never said it wasn’t close, I even said once that I see the argument with them being in the same tier with McDavid ahead at the moment.

We aren’t talking about them, we are talking about Sakic and Yzerman…

You realize you are now going against the very standards you set, right?….

3 cups, 2 gold medals>personal awards. Toews has those over McDavid, right?…

actually maybe I take back what I said about Sakic. he's prob passed him by now, McDavid's trophy case is pretty impressive but I still dunno how I feel about Yzerman.

 

[norrisnick]

they are just like LeBron fans. just want their fav player to be the best in the world without earning it.
Crosby's points are barely even a downgrade to McDavid's and he trumps McDavid in just about every area outside of offense.

I find it hard to justify McDavid over Crosby or even being in the top 5 this early. I wouldn't even rank McDavid over Lidstrom who might be the best Dman Ive seen in my life time or Hasek who is prob the best goalie ive seen in my life time.


I said it before you had the chance to take it in that direction, pretty simple to figure out.

lol well I disagree, you been making yourself look silly for about a week in here now.

McDavid has less points and no cups. he doesnt even deserver to be among the top 5 this early let alone over Crosby. guy is around the half way mark of his career. why not let him earn his place among the best?

Crosby certainly isn't ahead of Lidstrom.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Crosby certainly isn't ahead of Lidstrom.

no prob not. Lidstrom is prob the best Dman ive ever seen
I seen some put Lidstrom 4th overall actually bumping out Howe

 

[GreatGonzo]

think I said 6 years. through the first 6 I believe thats around where the concussions started right?

Sakic and Yzerman I was talking about all-time. I would put McDavid above them on a higher tier list but I wouldnt rank McDavid over them all-time yet just like I think its crazy to put McDavid 5th all time already

and no not really. McDavid is still a ways from passing Crosby in points. winning cups isn;t the end of all conversations. I think at this point McDavid had done enough to warrant passing Toews though but not Crosby not yet

but how did those two play the game the “right way” compared to McDavid?…

actually maybe I take back what I said about Sakic. he's prob passed him by now, McDavid's trophy case is pretty impressive but I still dunno how I feel about Yzerman.

Ok, how hasn’t he passed Yzerman but has passed Sakic?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

but how did those two play the game the “right way” compared to McDavid?…



Ok, how hasn’t he passed Yzerman but has passed Sakic?

they were perfect captains that lead their teams the right way, and got shit done

actually. I dunno what was wrong with me earlier. I was in a rush and for some reason looked at his assists and thought it was points.
I always knew Sakic had 1500+ points actually its 1600+ but when I looked again today and seen 1016 I thought I must have forgotten or misremembered. was thinking McDavid was only 34 points behind him and with numbers that close and with McDavid's trophy case it likely over steps cup wins

so ignore what I said there. McDavid likely a tier above both Sakic and Yzerman but not passing them all-time just yet. few more years he likely does