Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

I'm not allowed to say why he was considered better, because "leadership" and "championships" don't appeal to the "unbiased" just here in this thread like every Crosby thread arguing against Crosby crowd will say "those are not quantifiable".

I never asked you to I’m just stating what the consensus was during that time around here and the league.

I'm not allowed to say why he was considered better, because "leadership" and "championships" don't appeal to the "unbiased" just here in this thread like every Crosby thread arguing against Crosby crowd and they will say "those are not quantifiable".

Also, I think most people viewed Connor McDavid as the best player in the league in 2017 which is why he won the Hart Trophy.



I have countered them. Comparing a 27 - 36 year old's offensive production head to head with a 18 - 26 year old's offensive production is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen against Crosby since the last post of yours I read.

Not after Crosby won the smythe and was a Hart Nominee. That actually did it for a lot of people….but you obviously don’t remember.

So again, he’s “to old” when it comes to head to head match ups but not to old to be considered the better than him…

 

[Gurglesons]

I never asked you to I’m just stating what the consensus was during that time around here and the league.

Not after Crosby won the smythe and was a Hart Nominee. That actually did it for a lot of people….but you obviously don’t remember.

So again, he’s “to old” when it comes to head to head match ups but not to old to be considered the better than him…

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bleacherreport.com

McDavid top center.

#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers | NHL.com

NHL Network reveals best of current crop

www.nhl.com

McDavid top center.

Won the Hart.

Cool.

If a player entered the league next season as a 2025 pick and outscored mcdavid by nearly a 4:1 ratio over the next 10 years in their head to head matchups I would certainly reflect on and possibly reconsider my opinion that mcdavid is the best player of his generation

You could possibly see that from Bedard.

Be curious to see if McDavid wins another Art Ross again in his career.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Does anyone have Jonathan Toews as a better player than Eric lindros?

Tazer got it done 3 times while “the next one” got swept in his only finals appearance

Just wasn’t a born leader
No clutch ability

 

[Video Nasty]

I love when a stat rattles some so much that they go against everything they’ve argued for years over to hand wave it away.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does anyone have Jonathan Toews as a better player than Eric lindros?

Tazer got it done 3 times while “the next one” got swept in his only finals appearance

Just wasn’t a born leader
No clutch ability

Lindros won a Hart and tied for the league in points.

Kind of a weird comparsion.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Loading…

bleacherreport.com

McDavid top center.

#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers | NHL.com

NHL Network reveals best of current crop

www.nhl.com

McDavid top center.

Won the Hart.

Cool.



You could possibly see that from Bedard.

Be curious to see if McDavid wins another Art Ross again in his career.

2016-17 Hockey Graphs Top 50 Players

Welcome to the second annual Hockey Graphs Top 50 Players in the NHL list. The main reason I put this together last year (you can view that here) was as a basis for comparison against the other, mo…

hockey-graphs.com

Cool, I can post a random article that works with my argument too

 

[Gurglesons]

I love when a stat rattles some so much that they go against everything they’ve argued for years over to hand wave it away.

What have I argued for years?

McDavid at this point has proven he's a better individual contributor than Crosby in both the regular season and post season. I don't think it's much of a question.

Some people take championships into account when comparing greats. Some people don't.

Judging McDavid's career as an endpoint compared to Crosby's just doesn't work at this point.

McDavid likely finishes ahead of Crosby all time because it seems absurd he won't win a cup eventually.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Loading…

bleacherreport.com

McDavid top center.

#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers | NHL.com

NHL Network reveals best of current crop

www.nhl.com

McDavid top center.

Won the Hart.

Cool.



You could possibly see that from Bedard.

Be curious to see if McDavid wins another Art Ross again in his career.

If bedard outscores mcdavid by a greater than 3:1 ppg ratio In head to head matchups over the next decade I’ll admit that I was an idiot in 2024 and I’ll pay you $100

Fwiw I think mcdavid has 2 more art ross wins in him

We will see

 

[Gurglesons]

2016-17 Hockey Graphs Top 50 Players

Welcome to the second annual Hockey Graphs Top 50 Players in the NHL list. The main reason I put this together last year (you can view that here) was as a basis for comparison against the other, mo…

hockey-graphs.com

Cool, I can post a random article that works with my argument too

Noted respected media hockey-graphs.

You're the one making the argument that "the consensus was during that time around here and the league." that Sid was better than McDavid.

NHL.com and Bleacher Report two of the bigger sites at doing those types of rankings prove that argument wrong.

But, gotta make a fair unbiased take as per usual.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Noted respected media hockey-graphs.

You're the one making the argument that "the consensus was during that time around here and the league." that Sid was better than McDavid.

You are talking about “respected media” and then post a Bleacherreport article?

It was…again, you must have been under a rock those years

 

[Gurglesons]

If bedard outscores mcdavid by a greater than 3:1 ppg ratio In head to head matchups over the next decade I’ll admit that I was an idiot in 2024 and I’ll pay you $100

Fwiw I think mcdavid has 2 more art ross wins in him

We will see

We will see. Which is the whole issue of making this argument. McDavid could blow out his knee next year and never be the same player. Has happened to many greats.

That's what makes this difficult to capture in terms of arguments. We see the end picture of Crosby's career for the most part and what it shows is he's arguably the most consistent point producer outside of the Big 4 through his age 37 season. He has 3 cups. Multiple accolades.

McDavid has the best trophy case since Jagr and is looking to make it look better than Mario. He has the potential to finish above Lemieux if things break right over the next 5-7 years.

You are talking about “respected media” and then post a Bleacherreport article?

It was…again, you must have been under a rock those years

Better then living in Crosby threads just to be a contraian for years.

Oh, sorry. "Unbiased fan".

 

[Video Nasty]

What have I argued for years?

McDavid at this point has proven he's a better individual contributor than Crosby in both the regular season and post season. I don't think it's much of a question.

Some people take championships into account when comparing greats. Some people don't.

Judging McDavid's career as an endpoint compared to Crosby's just doesn't work at this point.

McDavid likely finishes ahead of Crosby all time because it seems absurd he won't win a cup eventually.

Crosby got outscored by Benn and Tavares a year before McDavid entered the league. He was still only 27 years old. I’m not entirely convinced Crosby’s numbers would be much better if he magically became the same age as McDavid during their 13 matchups.

I appreciate you seeing this is all inevitable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby got outscored by Benn and Tavares a year before McDavid entered the league. He was still only 27 years old. I’m not entirely convinced Crosby’s numbers would be much better if he magically became the same age as McDavid during their 13 matchups.

Most metrics built to show this comparison show that they are nearly identical producers.

But I'm sure being injured and losing out on the Ross because he missed 5 games is a better judgement call.

Weird how Crosby out produced McDavid in their respective first five seasons by points and PPG.

 

[GreatGonzo]

We will see. Which is the whole issue of making this argument. McDavid could blow out his knee next year and never be the same player. Has happened to many greats.

That's what makes this difficult to capture in terms of arguments. We see the end picture of Crosby's career for the most part and what it shows is he's arguably the most consistent point producer outside of the Big 4 through his age 37 season. He has 3 cups. Multiple accolades.

McDavid has the best trophy case since Jagr and is looking to make it look better than Mario. He has the potential to finish above Lemieux if things break right over the next 5-7 years.



Better then living in Crosby threads just to be a contraian for years.

Oh, sorry. "Unbiased fan".

Do you always mock people when you have nothing better to say?

 

[Video Nasty]

You could possibly see that from Bedard.

Be curious to see if McDavid wins another Art Ross again in his career.

I think I’m extremely aggressive and optimistic with how good of a career Bedard will have. I don’t see him winning an Art Ross until McDavid is at least 32, and even then, I don’t think he’ll put them on lock until McDavid is 35+.

I think McDavid wins more Art Rosses over the next 8 years than Bedard; 4 to 3.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think I’m extremely aggressive and optimistic with how good of a career Bedard will have. I don’t see him winning an Art Ross until McDavid is at least 32, and even then, I don’t think he’ll put them on lock until McDavid is 35+.

I think McDavid wins more Art Rosses over the next 8 years than Bedard; 4 to 3.

Would be cool. Fan of McDavid and him being an all timer like that makes the league fun.

Do you always mock people when you have nothing better to say?

Jesus, look in a mirror my brother. All you do is talk shit on Crosby fans. That is literally all you do on HFboards.

 

[DitchMarner]

It's almost as if aging curves exist.

The poster I replied to wrote this:

"The only time it would matter is if they were playing each other and I have yet to see anyone pull up stats for that, possibly out of fear,"

So I don't know... tell GoldenSeal that. He seemed to think head-to-head stats are important.

At any rate, these two have been in the league together for almost a decade. If Connor Bedard dominates Connor McDavid this hard for the rest of his career, it'll be pretty surprising.

 

[Gurglesons]

The poster I replied wrote this:

"The only time it would matter is if they were playing each other and I have yet to see anyone pull up stats for that, possibly out of fear,"

So I don't know... tell GoldenSeal that. He seemed to think head-to-head stats are important.

At any rate, these two have been in the league together for almost a decade. If Connor Bedard dominates Connor McDavid this hard for the rest of his career, it'll be pretty surprising.

Took McDavid until year 6 of his career to start to pull away from Sid if we are talking "head to head" from an age perspective.

Coincidentally when Crosby had the concussion issues.

Not an excuse for Sid. Ultimately much like McDavid's championship record, Crosby needs to be judged for what he actually did not what he could've potentially did.

 

[Frank Drebin]

But I'm sure being injured and losing out on the Ross because he missed 5 games is a better judgement call.

If if if

If the oilers were the best team in the league in 18-19 and the lightning were a lottery team

If McDavid played a whole season in 19-20

If mcdavid was healthy all of 23-24

He may have had 8 art Ross in his first 9 seasons

 

[Gurglesons]

If if if

If the oilers were the best team in the league in 18-19 and the lightning were a lottery team

If McDavid played a whole season in 19-20

If mcdavid was healthy all of 23-24

He may have had 8 art Ross in his first 9 seasons

You realize you are saying if if if after you proposed a hypothetical scenario where "if" Crosby and McDavid played head to head at a similar age right?

 

[Video Nasty]

If if if

If the oilers were the best team in the league in 18-19 and the lightning were a lottery team

If McDavid played a whole season in 19-20

If mcdavid was healthy all of 23-24

He may have had 8 art Ross in his first 9 seasons

That’s the funny thing about the what if games. Similar to Lemieux over Gretzky supporters, Crosby over McDavid supporters don’t seem to understand that it could be even more lopsided and ugly if we played the what if game too.

Fortunately, though McDavid already has a couple of his own, his case doesn’t remotely rely on them, so they’re usually not brought up as something important.

But it could truly get nutty.

What if McDavid played a full rookie campaign?

What if McDavid didn’t tear his PCL in half at the end of 2018-2019, which came with a recommended surgery that would take 10 months to recover from, where he instead opted to rehabilitate it over the next 6 months, which appears to have been a very forward thinking move for the remainder of his career, but surely had some effect on his play in 2019-2020?

What if he had more than 56 games available to him in 2020-2021?

What if he didn’t play all of 2023-2024 with nagging injuries? He still rampaged back at a certain point to eliminate a 20 point deficit in less than a month to briefly recapture the scoring leader at 125 points before being shut down shortly after.

I agree with your conclusion. We can play the what if game with Crosby and bring him up to 5 or 6 Art Rosses, but we would have to do the same for McDavid and bring him up to at least 7 through just 9 seasons.

The beauty of McDavid so far is that none of what I typed out is necessary to argue his case. Unfortunately for Crosby, he needs the what ifs to even have a discussion.

 

[wetcoast]

Not to mention it's disingenuous AF to sprinkle around 20 whatever points as if that wouldn't also boost everyone else. Or disregarding that 20 strategic points in the other direction and presto Crosby has zero scoring titles and no Harts.

Just stick with what actually happened.

Sorry that post was a mental thought exercise and was meant for fair minded thinkers not for people that can't acknowledge the actual what happened level of Crosby's play people.

 

[norrisnick]

Sorry that post was a mental thought exercise and was meant for fair minded thinkers not for people that can't acknowledge the actual what happened level of Crosby's play people.

And I was pointing out that "fair-mindedly" adding games/points to anyone's career would significantly alter it. So either open up that hypothetical for everyone in the discussion or no one. Or the best option at all, is just not tinkering at all because as is evident it's already difficult enough to compare actual careers without making shit up for one or the other.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Id still take Crosby over McDavid if I was starting a franchise. if I knew nothing about either player I dunno its hard to say. I feel like the hype around Crosby was greater than McDavid but I dunno its hard to remember so long ago.

 

[Video Nasty]

Id still take Crosby over McDavid if I was starting a franchise. if I knew nothing about either player I dunno its hard to say. I feel like the hype around Crosby was greater than McDavid but I dunno its hard to remember so long ago.