Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[MacMacandBarbie]

I don’t understand, what was wrong with him going off and chasing a cup at the age he was? It’s not like he was a passenger at that point of his career. It’s not like he rode the bench and played in a few games.

I don’t understand, where did I say it was wrong of him to do so? Where did I even imply such a thing? Where did I even imply that he rode the bench and wasn’t a major contributor?

Please just don’t even quote somebody ever if you are even a little unsure of what they said or meant. I’m not going to continue correcting your ill conceived notions because you want to skirt the site rules.

 

[Video Nasty]

The first time I heard it, I couldn't believe it.

One guy has triple the goals and almost quadruple the points. His plus/minus is also 27 points better.

That poster said the only time stats would matter is if they went head-to-head. I wonder if he still thinks that.

It’s very telling how the “other side” hasn’t said a word about it. I assume the counter argument is that Crosby wasn’t in his prime for most of those games and he would fare better like when he was getting locked down in the 2009 Finals. Regardless, the difference is about as grim as I’ve ever seen between two all-timers.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I don’t understand, where did I say it was wrong of him to do so? Where did I even imply such a thing? Where did I even imply that he rode the bench and wasn’t a major contributor?

Please just don’t even quote somebody ever if you are even a little unsure of what they said or meant. I’m not going to continue correcting your ill conceived notions because you want to skirt the site rules.

“I think bringing up a top 3 defenseman of all time that spent his entire career with one team and left to chase a cup in his last couple years does the opposite for your point.”

How did it do the opposite of his point? You make it sound like it was a bad thing.

Also, the “participation awards” Talk? What’s up with that?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Every single name on your list was criticized for not winning a cup. Especially those sharks players that recently retired.

That doesn’t make it right.

A Stanley cup takes so much more than any 1 player can contribute.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s very telling how the “other side” hasn’t said a word about it. I assume the counter argument is that Crosby wasn’t in his prime for most of those games and he would fare better like when he was getting locked down in the 2009 Finals. Regardless, the difference is about as grim as I’ve ever seen between two all-timers.

Ya why are they brushing that off, hoping no-one reads it.?

 

[Video Nasty]

Ya why are they brushing that off, hoping no-one reads it.?

Don’t worry. Much like how he sat most of Game 7 during his first Cup win, I’ll make sure to mention it every now and again.

 

[Xspyrit]

Most of those players fell short in the biggest moments, and no surprise, lots of players from canadian teams and the sharks. You can't wipe off the losing stain from most of those players, and the fact that most of them fell short is what elevated those that beat them and are considered winners because of it.

The human brain has a lot of potential but in most cases, its development is pretty basic. Most people draw these simpleton conclusions based on the simple fact that in the end, the player didn't win. Like if anyone come up with the conclusion that McDavid came short in the last playoffs. I mean, only the 2 almost uncontested best players in history had more points in a playoffs year, and in the most offensively prolific era

Nobody ever said that.

Did you know that by clicking on the username in the quote, you could go all the way back to post #2,203?

You seriously didn't know that? You've been on this site since 2019

Is this what you say when you don't have a proper retort?

No, but you also have no idea about how much energy it takes when you feel that you have to teach someone how to tie his own shoes? When you see such a simple basic argument not being understood at all, you see explaining why as the Everest mountain. It's called discouragement even though I could simply say that McDavid is not 40 y/o yet. No guarantee that would be enough

More like deflecting. Or maybe its the participation trophy era you were brought up in that causes one to think that Joe Thornton not winning a Stanley Cup doesn't matter.

lol I am most likely older than you. I never said it was not a problem. I don't think Thornton is very happy about not having a Cup.

Again, you would have to go back to the ONLY/INITIAL point I was arguing about but that's probably a lot to ask you. You would have done it by now if you weren't so blinded by your bias.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Who was the better player

David Krejci

or

Joe Thornton

Only one knew how to win

 

[GreatGonzo]

Hmm... I guess you need it spelled out for you especially since you seem so intent on clowning on multiple other posters for their lack of intelligence (not yours).

1) We're in a Crosby / McDavid thread. You seem to be supporting the idea that McDavid is a tier above Crosby.
2) You said, and I quote, "all the greats were winning it when there was 6, 12 or 16 teams." Again, none of the people you listed are even remotely connected to the topic of this thread.
3) Crosby won 3 cups, every single person who casually follows hockey would consider him a great.

***

If all the greats were winning the cup when there were 6, 12, 16 teams, and if Crosby was a great, then it follows that you're saying Crosby was also winning his cups when there were 6, 12, 16 teams. It's the clear implication of the logic you made in your post. No deduction needed whatsoever.

Of course, this claim and corresponding argument is nonsense. Which is what my response was about.

***

Please pick up as many infractions as you want while addressing the obvious stupidity of your own post. Your oblivious response definitely made my day at least.

16 teams in 2009

What in the world….

That’s not what he implied or argued at all….

Sounds like you didn’t even know there weren’t 16 teams in the league in 2009

Truly, intelligence isn’t a strong suit in this thread for many…

 

[Golden_Jet]

16 teams in 2009

lol, you wrote all that, and even quoted the poster, then still managed to get wrong what poster said. Now that takes talent.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Enough personal attacks, folks.

 

[PainForShane]

Enough personal attacks, folks.

Might as well close the thread. We haven't discussed anything of substance for at least 30 pages

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Might as well close the thread. We haven't discussed anything of substance for at least 30 pages

You're free to leave the thread at any point you'd like to leave the thread.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

You know who else has not won a Cup? (we'll only talk about the NHL since it would take days to list people in all sports)

Joe Thornton
Marcel Dionne
Jarome Iginla
Adam Oates
Daniel Alfredsson
Mats Sundin
Dale Hawerchuk
Mike Gartner
Roberto Luongo
Peter Stastny
Pierre Turgeon
Gilbert Perreault
Pavel Bure
Carey Price
Henrik Lundqvist
Eric Lindros
Paul Kariya
Daniel & Henrik Sedin
Pekka Rinne
Dino Ciccarelli
Brad Park
Jeremy Roenick
Joe Pavelski
Cam Neely
Etc

And so many great active players who have not won yet. Ray Bourque was 40 y/o and in his last year when he won. McDavid was a game away from a Cup just a few weeks ago

You could have realized what follows by yourself but I'll give you a pass. Winning the Stanley Cup is something that will become even more rare now that there is 32 teams (and maybe even more coming). The Stanley Cup became really hard to win. Of course, all the greats were winning it when there was 6, 12 or 16 teams. Now, not only you need to be good but you also have to be at the right place at the right time.

you do make good points and I agree about it will become more rare. and I do think McDavid will eventually pass Crosby but I dont think he will on almost every consensus ranking till he atleast wins a cup or passes Crosby in points.

and yeah alot of great players above but none are said to be placed in the top 5 bumping out guys like Lemieux, Orr or Howe, I think there might be like 1 or 2 players listed that have a strong argument to place above Crosby at this point.

also I think we can remove Roberto Luongo. he just got his cup although it wasnt as a player. Im sure there are others too but not sure if that counts

 

[Arthur Morgan]

That doesn’t make it right.

A Stanley cup takes so much more than any 1 player can contribute.

That's sports. the greats are measured by how much they win along with their stat lines. like Maroon isn't making any all time great lists

 

[Gurglesons]

Here are their head-to-head stats (13 games):

Connor McDavid: 9 goals, 18 assists, 27 points, +15, 19 EVP, 57 shots, 21:40 ATOI

Sidney Crosby: 3 goals, 4 assists, 7 points, -12, 5 EVP, 39 shots, 20:24 ATOI

It's almost as if aging curves exist.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It's almost as if aging curves exist.

So the only reason why McDavid has won the head to head matches is because Crosby is old?…

Its Weird because in 2017 and 2018, Crosby was still widely considered one…if not the best player In The league, and these were there head to head numbers those two years..

McDavid: 4-2-5-7 +3
Crosby: 4-0-1-1 -1

So Crosby has a smythe and Rocket one of those years, and then the next year put up 21 points in 12 playoffs games. He finished 2nd and 10th in points both years, was a Hart nominee as well with a new and improved “defensive game.” Yet McDavid still out played him.

 

[Video Nasty]

It's almost as if aging curves exist.

Someone keep this guy from remembering what Gretzky did to Lemieux, despite being half a decade older and playing almost as many games as Lemieux did through 1997 in just his first 9 seasons.

Are we suddenly conceding that Crosby wasn’t a top 1-5 player from 2015-2016 through present day, like has been so commonly argued on this forum and perhaps even by yourself?

 

[Gurglesons]

Someone keep this guy from remembering what Gretzky did to Lemieux, despite being half a decade older and playing almost as many games as Lemieux did through 1997 in just his first 9 seasons.

Are we suddenly conceding that Crosby wasn’t a top 1-5 player from 2015-2016 through present day, like has been so commonly argued on this forum and perhaps even by yourself?

Nobody thinks Crosby is a comparable player to Wayne Gretzky.

Only an idiot would think he is a comparable player to Mario Lemieux.

Gretzky is also around 5 years older than Lemieux. Crosby is around 10 years older than McDavid.

So the only reason why McDavid has won the head to head matches is because Crosby is old?…

Its Weird because in 2017 and 2018, Crosby was still widely considered one…if not the best player In The league, and these were there head to head numbers those two years..

McDavid: 4-2-5-7 +3
Crosby: 4-0-1-1 -1

So Crosby has a smythe and Rocket one of those years, and then the next year put up 21 points I2 games. He was a Hart nominee as well with a new and improved “defensive game.” Yet McDavid still out played him.

It's over. Crosby is behind McDavid becuase of a 4 game season in 2017 and 2018.

Thank you for your consistently impartial unbiased takes.

Close up the thread. The Great Gonzo has proven McDavid is a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as only he could.

 

[Frank Drebin]

It's almost as if aging curves exist.

Crosby was one year older than mcdavids current age when mcdavid entered the league

I would absolutely love to see the prodigy that outproduces mcdavid to that degree in head to head matchups over the next decade

I would certainly tip my hat to that player

 

[GreatGonzo]

Nobody thinks Crosby is a comparable player to Wayne Gretzky.

Only an idiot would think he is a comparable player to Mario Lemieux.



It's over. Crosby is behind McDavid becuase of a 4 game season in 2017 and 2018.

Thank you for your consistently impartial unbiased takes.

Close up the thread. The Great Gonzo has proven McDavid is a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as only he could.

Impartial bias? Do you even know the meaning of that? Word of advice, don’t just use words thinking they make you sound more correct.

Now I know 4 games isn’t a huge sample size but McDavid still very much won those match ups and only continued to as the years went on. Funny how Crosby wasn’t to “old” to be considered the best player in the league and playoff MVP, but suddenly he’s “old” losing to McDavid head to head.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby was one year older than mcdavids current age when mcdavid entered the league

I would absolutely love to see the prodigy that outproduces mcdavid to that degree in head to head matchups over the next decade

I would certainly tip my hat to that player

Crosby is nearly ten years older than McDavid and the post I'm replying to was using his head to head numbers against McDavid to prove some type of point.

Impartial bias? Do you even know the meaning of that? Word of advice, don’t just use words thinking they make you sound more correct.

Now I know 4 games isn’t a huge sample size but McDavid still very much won those match ups and only continued to as the years went on. Funny how Crosby wasn’t to “old” to be considered the best player in the league and playoff MVP, but suddenly he’s “old” losing to McDavid head to head.

You are truly a genius. Amazing analysis as always.

Glad we have someone that can keep us all honest in the Sidney Crosby takes every 3 posts. Huge benefit to the board.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby is nearly ten years older than McDavid and the post I'm replying to was using his head to head numbers against McDavid to prove some type of point.

Again, he was nearly 10 years older in 2017 and 2018 and was still considered better than McDavid.

Crosby is nearly ten years older than McDavid and the post I'm replying to was using his head to head numbers against McDavid to prove some type of point.



You are truly a genius. Amazing analysis as always.

Glad we have someone that can keep us all honest in the Sidney Crosby takes every 3 posts. Huge benefit to the board.

Yes, continue mocking the stats that don’t fit your argument or standards instead of countering them….its a good look on you

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, he was nearly 10 years older in 2017 and 2018 and was still considered better than McDavid.

I'm not allowed to say why he was considered better, because "leadership" and "championships" don't appeal to the "unbiased" just here in this thread like every Crosby thread arguing against Crosby crowd and they will say "those are not quantifiable".

Also, I think most people viewed Connor McDavid as the best player in the league in 2017 which is why he won the Hart Trophy.

Yes, continue mocking the stats that don’t fit your argument or standards instead of countering them….its a good look on you

I have countered them. Comparing a 27 - 36 year old's offensive production head to head with a 18 - 26 year old's offensive production is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen against Crosby since the last post of yours I read.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Crosby is nearly ten years older than McDavid and the post I'm replying to was using his head to head numbers against McDavid to prove some type of poin

If a player entered the league next season as a 2025 pick and outscored mcdavid by nearly a 4:1 ratio over the next 10 years in their head to head matchups I would certainly reflect on and possibly reconsider my opinion that mcdavid is the best player of his generation