Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

Another day goes by where Sidney Crosby is viewed as the greatest player of the century.

Don’t you guys love to see it?

Ranking the top 25 NHL players of the 21st century

From Crosby to Thornton, Ovechkin to Chara, here are hockey's best from the past 25 years.

abc7chicago.com

I’m

I’m sure the ABC Chicago sports page is so reputable.

What an odd statistic. Caps were a powerhouse team and possibly just as tough to dispatch then the wings that year for the Penguins. Let me cherry pick a random stat too. Crosby had almost just as many goals in a 7 game span as McDavid had in his entire 25 game playoff run last year.

I am not. The argument was to portray McDavid as somehow coming into a league that had less benefits to score. It’s patently false, and PPO won't demonstrate that, but GPG. Continue talking about whatever you want to talk about, but with regards to scoring environment, it isn't close. McDavid's 3rd-9th season has taken place in a much easier scoring environment than Crosby's 3rd-9th.

Why is that odd? What do the Caps have to do with it

The bolded doesn’t make any sense

No, that wasnt the argument at all once again you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

But that was done by a collection of ESPN writers, what do they know? We have GreatGonzo and Video Nasty as objective authorities on Crosby.

'Crosby's teammate Kris Letang recalled how, in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final against San Jose, Crosby vowed he and Letang would team-up on the "biggest goal" of the night. They wound up connecting for a game-winner that secured Pittsburgh's fourth Cup in franchise history. Letang was understandably stunned by Crosby's fortune-telling prowess on such a large stage.'

'But Crosby impresses in the smaller moments, too. Former linemate Conor Sheary recalled Crosby assuring him when they were paired together that Sheary was "there for a reason and to play my game." It was the sort of calming presence Sheary needed and a gesture from Crosby he's never forgotten.'



Who do we listen to? Former teammates and professional writers, or GreatGonzo?

Cool stories, I’m sure they mean something to someone…somewhere, what they have to do with the topic? Nothing.

You are quoting stuff from 2016, not 2009. Another change in the goal posts I see….

 

[Video Nasty]

Just my opinion based on his demeanor and the way his teams have played, which benefits 97's game at the expense of the less gifted members of the Oilers.

I think he forces his teams to play a certain way and I can't see him buying into playing a trapping system like Crosby did under Therrien.

So nothing? Got it.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I’m sure the ABC Chicago sports page is so reputable.

Yeah, ESPN is reputable.

Why is that odd? What do the Caps have to do with it

What do collecting random cherry picked rounds of a playoff where McDavid performed well have to do with anything? Crosby and the penguins faced the 50 win caps that year with prime OV/Semin/Backstrom/Green. I am cherry picking crosby's performance against one of the hardest opponents he has ever faced in the playoffs in his a cup run, and comparing it to McDavid's entire 25 game run.

The bolded doesn’t make any sense

No, that wasnt the argument at all once again you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

I know I know, you are the authority.

Cool stories, I’m sure they mean something to someone…somewhere, what they have to do with the topic? Nothing.

You are quoting stuff from 2016, not 2009. Another change in the goal posts I see….

No change in goal posts. Just showing how Crosby lifts his teammates up, from ESPN writers and former teammates. You had that 09 conversation with another poster. I found your comment funny so I reposted it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Another day goes by where Sidney Crosby is viewed as the greatest player of the century.

Don’t you guys love to see it?

Ranking the top 25 NHL players of the 21st century

From Crosby to Thornton, Ovechkin to Chara, here are hockey's best from the past 25 years.

abc7chicago.com

Those stooges have Ovie listed as a right wing and Kane as a LW.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yeah, ESPN is reputable.

What do collecting random cherry picked rounds of a playoff where McDavid performed well have to do with anything? Crosby and the penguins faced the 50 win caps that year with prime OV/Semin/Backstrom/Green. I am cherry picking crosby's performance against one of the hardest opponents he has ever faced in the playoffs in his a cup run, and comparing it to McDavid's entire 25 game run.

I know I know, you are the authority.

No change in goal posts. Just showing how Crosby lifts his teammates up, from ESPN writers and former teammates. You had that 09 conversation with another poster. I found your comment funny so I reposted it.

So you agree Kane over Malkin? Interesting…

[mod] Caps? “Cherry picked” playoff runs? What?…

As opposed to you? Mr. “The Art Ross isn’t a major award.”

You quoted something from 2016 to show proof for his play in 2009…..so….

 

[Golden_Jet]

Slightly higher in a lower scoring era.

going to have to tap out after this one, as maybe you’ve been drinking, it is Friday after all.

Crosby’s average was a slightly higher, meaning there were more goals scored in his 5 year’s vs McDavid 5 year average
Not even gonna bother commenting on the rest, it’s a waste of time….
As you don’t read it or just don’t understand it.
You don’t listen, just a McDavid hater I guess.
Terrible at Math,
Not to mention the Bob and weave and I’ve grown tired of you moving the goalposts and cherry picking.

Enjoy your Friday night, obviously you started early. We’re done, but I’ve enjoy laughing. Thanks for that.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Those stooges have Ovie listed as a right wing and Kane as a LW.

It has been a common mistake throughout his career. One time he was even voted as 1st team All Star as a right wing.
Ovechkin voted to two NHL All-Star teams.

Kane plays right wing for the detroit red wings. That is accurate.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

So you agree Kane over Malkin? Interesting…

Yeah I do. That was a poll awhile back too and it was split down the middle. They have had very similar careers and accomplishments.

[mod] Caps? “Cherry picked” playoff runs? What?…

I responded to your cherry picked stat with a cherry picked stat.

You quoted something from 2016 to show proof for his play in 2009…..so….

Nah, I quoted something from an article just posted in 2024, and then at the same time pulled up your silly ass comment. You just correlated the two.

 

[wetcoast]

Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, Leclaire, Whitney >>>>>>> Murphy, Dickinson, Kurashev,

Recchi was 37 years old that year, Pallfy played 42 games in what would be his last NHL season.

Gonchar racked up the points on the PP (38 to be exact, 18 at ES) and was 31 years old.

Sure statiscally he was better than Seth Jones but there isn't a huge difference here and crosby really lapped the field on that team at ES.

It’s way more than a “little better”

Not really as Crosby was better than Bedard in their rookie seasons and the Pens had a .543 winning % and were second to last in the league.

Bedard's Black Hawks were also second last in the league and had a .317 winning % but the rules were slightly different for each season.

See above

Like I said when I posted it, I have no problem saying that the Black Hawks were worse without Bedard but some of the Pens looked better because Sidney was also better.

The difference in supporting casts wasn't huge.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

going to have to tap out after this one, as maybe you’ve been drinking, it is Friday after all.

Crosby’s average was a slightly higher, meaning there were more goals scored in his 5 year’s vs McDavid 5 year average

Well, no it wasn't. It was higher for the first 2 seasons, then seasons 3-5 McDavid had the higher scoring environment. The numbers are right there.

Meaning there were more goals scored in years 3-5 seasons for McDavid than Crosby.

Not even gonna bother commenting on the rest, it’s a waste of time….

Okay

As you don’t read it or just don’t understand it.

Okay

You don’t listen, just a McDavid hater I guess.

Lol. Been posting highlights of his and singing his praises at various times throughout this thread. What a lazy comment.

Terrible at Math,

All you have to do is look at a number. No math involved.

Not to mention the Bob and weave and I’ve grown tired of you moving the goalposts and cherry picking.

Like cherry picking a 5 season average?

Enjoy your Friday night, obviously you started early. We’re done, but I’ve enjoy laughing. Thanks for that.

Glad you could enjoy a laugh. You have been way too uptight with your agenda.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Well, no it wasn't. It was higher for the first 2 seasons, then seasons 3-5 McDavid had the higher scoring environment. The numbers are right there.

Meaning there were more goals scored in years 3-5 seasons for McDavid than Crosby.

Okay

Okay

Lol. Been posting highlights of his and singing his praises at various times throughout this thread. What a lazy comment.

All you have to do is look at a number. No math involved.

Like cherry picking a 5 season average?

Glad you could enjoy a laugh. You have been way too uptight with your agenda.

Still moving the goal posts I see…

You posted one video clip and then said “no one has done that before.”

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

It's kind of like comparing Wayne to Messier.

Messier was never the best player of his era - he's not even a top ten player. Crosby was and is. This is comparing two players that are the best of their respective eras.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Still moving the goal posts I see…

It seems you parrot talking points you don't understand.

You posted one video clip and then said “no one has done that before.”

I did post a clip. I never said that though, what are you on about?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Messier was never the best player of his era - he's not even a top ten player. Crosby was and is. This is comparing two players that are the best of their respective eras.

I would like to add that this is the main talking point in this thread. Is McDavid an entire tier above Crosby? And it naturally will involve all the players that were the best of their generation.

Crosby/Ovechkin/Lemieux/Jagr/Gretzky/Hasek/Lidstrom/Bourque/Orr/Beliveau/Howe fall into that category. Over time, the consensus separated Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe from that group, and pushed them to tier above these players as being more dominant as a 'best of a generation' type player. But make no mistake, all of these players can be mentioned in the same breath as each other.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Messier was never the best player of his era - he's not even a top ten player. Crosby was and is. This is comparing two players that are the best of their respective eras.

Not disputing this, but if someone was to ask you to explain why Crosby was considered the best of his era, how would you explain it?

 

[crowfish]

But that was done by a collection of ESPN writers, what do they know? We have GreatGonzo and Video Nasty as objective authorities on Crosby.

'Crosby's teammate Kris Letang recalled how, in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final against San Jose, Crosby vowed he and Letang would team-up on the "biggest goal" of the night. They wound up connecting for a game-winner that secured Pittsburgh's fourth Cup in franchise history. Letang was understandably stunned by Crosby's fortune-telling prowess on such a large stage.'

'But Crosby impresses in the smaller moments, too. Former linemate Conor Sheary recalled Crosby assuring him when they were paired together that Sheary was "there for a reason and to play my game." It was the sort of calming presence Sheary needed and a gesture from Crosby he's never forgotten.'



Who do we listen to? Former teammates and professional writers, or GreatGonzo?

I think I recall Draisaitl referring to McDavid as the "Greatest to ever play the game" (or something to that effect). A teammate saying nice things is not proof of anything.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Not disputing this, but if someone was to ask you to explain why Crosby was considered the best of his era, how would you explain it?

From the moment he stepped onto the ice, he captured the hearts of fans, becoming the youngest player ever to record a 100-point season. In his early years, he quickly established himself as one of the best of his generation, alongside Alex Ovechkin, who was setting historic marks on his way to becoming the greatest goal scorer of all time. He became the youngest captain to win the Stanley Cup, reaching back-to-back finals within his first five seasons. By 2014, he had solidified his position as the best of his generation, surpassing Ovechkin. With five league-leading PPG seasons and his most dominant Art Ross win, boasting a 20% lead over the second place, he capped off this era by leading Canada to Olympic Gold with the legendary 'Golden Goal.' From 2005 to 2014, Sidney Crosby stood head and shoulders above the league, with Ovechkin and occasionally Malkin vying for dominance, but it was Crosby's consistent excellence that reigned supreme throughout.

I think I recall Draisaitl referring to McDavid as the "Greatest to ever play the game" (or something to that effect). A teammate saying nice things is not proof of anything.

A teammate saying Crosby lifted him up isn't evidence that Crosby lifts players on his team up?

 

[wetcoast]

Uhhh… who the hell else would you list on Chicago? They didn’t have any good players outside of Bedard lol.

Leclaire had 22G and 51 pts which would be 2nd in goals and 3rd in points on the Hawks

The Pens had 8 (outside of Crosby) players pace or score more than 40pts, including Recchi and Palffy who were both 70-80pt paces.

The Hawks had 2 players pace or get 40pts I believe, and none pace for anywhere close to 70+

Their support wasn’t remotely similar and that’s not debatable whatsoever

Leclair had 23 ESP which was good for 5th on the Pens, Seth joness had 22 and Foligno 20 for the black Hawks good for 5th and 6th, donato ahd 27 which was 4th.

the pens scoring totals were higher for 2 reasons.

1) Crosby was much more NHL ready and better than Bedard

2) Crosby led a half decent PP with 47 PPP.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Not disputing this, but if someone was to ask you to explain why Crosby was considered the best of his era, how would you explain it?

He was the best player in the NHL for a decade, it's pretty simple.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Not disputing this, but if someone was to ask you to explain why Crosby was considered the best of his era, how would you explain it?

Because he's won everything there is to win, multiple times. Art rosses, rockets, harts, Ted lindsays, Olympic golds, conn smythes, Stanley cups. He has the longevity (most points of his era at 1596, 19 consecutive ppg+ seasons) and the peak (highest ppg of his era, 6 times leading the league in ppg). Not to mention he's turned into a very good two way and complete player the second half of his career. Ovechkin is second and the obvious best goal scorer, but he's a very clear second.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yeah I do. That was a poll awhile back too and it was split down the middle. They have had very similar careers and accomplishments.

I responded to your cherry picked stat with a cherry picked stat.


Nah, I quoted something from an article just posted in 2024, and then at the same time pulled up your silly ass comment. You just correlated the two.

Ok

Got responded with nonsense. That’s all that was.

Ok?

You were talking about 2009 and took two quotes from 2016 to prove your point about 2009….because that makes sense.

It seems you parrot talking points you don't understand.

I did post a clip. I never said that though, what are you on about?

parrot talking?

“Been posting highlights of his and singing his praises at various times throughout this thread”

*Posts one video and claims no one has done before*

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

You were talking about 2009 and took two quotes from 2016 to prove your point about 2009….because that makes sense.

As I said, you had the conversation with another poster. Just quoted you cause I like quoting your silly comments. You made the correlation to 09, not me.

“Been posting highlights of his and singing his praises at various times throughout this thread”

I have

*Posts one video and claims no one has done before*

Still don't know what you are talking about here. I posted a video, I never made the comment you are claiming I made though.

 

[edog37]

Better despite not possessing any skills better than Mcdavid besides maybe puck protection? I’m tired of the narrative that Crosby is great at defense and Mcdavid sucks when the reality is that Mcdavid is just as good if not better defensively. Crosby has only ever won two art rosses against weaker competition than Mcdavid faced. The scoring environment was not even close to low enough to justify the gap in production between Mcdavid and Crosby, and even if you assume Crosby’s pace would continue in his injured seasons, he still doesn’t match Mcdavid. This is just talking about the regular season also. Mcdavid dragged a fringe playoff team at best to a game 7 cup final despite the worst playoff goaltending we’ve seen in years and the worst cup final D-core we’ve ever seen.

You clearly have not watched Crosby then. McDavid is the flashier player. But if you want it done, Crosby is the only choice.

 

[GreatGonzo]

As I said, you had the conversation with another poster. Just quoted you cause I like quoting your silly comments. You made the correlation to 09, not me.

I have

Still don't know what you are talking about here. I posted a video, I never made the comment you are claiming I made though.

I said this:
“McDavid has more goals in the inals
In a 7 game span than Crosby does in 25 games. But I’m sure that’s due to “lower scoring era” too? ”

You then said….

“What an odd statistic. Caps were a powerhouse team and possibly just as tough to dispatch then the wings that year for the Penguins. Let me cherry pick a random stat too. Crosby had almost just as many goals in a 7 game span as McDavid had in his entire 25 game playoff run last year.”

And you thought, sure that makes absolute sense and is totally on topic

Regarding the video….
“Yup, it was a cool goal. Glad I could show you something you have never seen before. Looked like Crosby showing his versatility in the goal scoring department by splitting the D like McDavid does with his speed.”

You are really struggling to stay afloat here…

 

[Video Nasty]

Another day goes by where Sidney Crosby is viewed as the greatest player of the century.

Don’t you guys love to see it?

Ranking the top 25 NHL players of the 21st century

From Crosby to Thornton, Ovechkin to Chara, here are hockey's best from the past 25 years.

abc7chicago.com

Enjoy the mass hypnosis while it lasts. We’re within about two years before public opinion shifts to McDavid being a near universal choice on these types of lists and of course #5 all-time (and possibly climbing).