Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[DitchMarner]

I’m honestly curious why Crosby is even considered to have been a more dominant player than Jagr

Honestly, a lot of it has to do with the leadership/intangibles type of stuff you're seeing in this thread.

In this particular case, there may be more truth to it. I mean, Jagr did have a reputation for being sulky and moody when he was with PIT. Crosby was also more consistent, but Jagr accomplished more at his peak. I was going to say he was healthier at his peak, but he missed a significant number of games in both '98 and '00 but still won the Art Ross.

 

[tabness]

you’re not a Detroit fan who is still mad about the handshake snub and mad that the Pens put their franchise into irrelevance

lol this take is absolute gold even from the usual Crosboner garbage

 

[Frank Drebin]

Tell me you only watched highlights and read stats without telling me you only watched highlights and read stats.

tell me you have a hard time quantifying an answer by posting nothing at all

 

[PainForShane]

tell me you have a hard time quantifying an answer by posting nothing at all

That's not what happened just now. Drebin continuing to post like Drebin.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Look, I have not replied to any of your posts in this thread given;

1) Your lack of reading comprehension to basically every single message you’re replying too, since I’ve joined this forum. You keep implying things that people have never explicitly said. Your reasoning is horrendous.

2) You’ve been one of the most volatile Crosby hater since I’ve joined this forum. You’re also being very annoying by replying to everyone with sarcastic replies/not adding anything relevant to the discussion.

3) What is even your reason to hate on Crosby? You’re not a Flyers fan who got beaten down year after year by Crosby, you’re not a Caps fan who has to deal with the fact that Crosby > Ovechkin, you’re not a Detroit fan who is still mad about the handshake snub and mad that the Pens put their franchise into irrelevance. You’re also not an Oilers fan because you’ve been hating on Crosby before McDavid was even drafted. All of those people at least have a valid reason to hate on Crosby, which makes your addiction to drag down Crosby even more weird.

Choose your words wisely, as it will one of the last interactions I have with you until you change your style of posting.

1. Again, cute. And ironic to say the least. Anything else you want to attack me on?

2. I’m not a Crosby hater but nice try.

3. Again, don’t hate Crosby. The fact that you have to imply that already makes tour argument weak. If that’s how you have to justify things, go right ahead.

Oooo I love empty threats . Maybe bring more to the table than just “he wins” and how McDavid doesn’t do enough to be a winner. That’s a start…

Yes, the outcome of a 2-2 series is in doubt. Because either team might win. Same with a 2-0 series which is more relevant to this particular conversation. The outcome of a series where one team is down 0-3 is not in doubt. Because the team that's up 3-0 will win the overwhelming percentage of the time. Everyone knows this.



***

Regarding Edm in games 4 and 5, this year's SCF was basically already out of reach (3-0 or 3-1 respectively) so I believe the series was already basically lost. I'm far from the only one who believes this.

When the series became 3-2 and 3-3 (and the outcome of the games became relevant to the outcome of the series), McD's offensive contribution dried up. Regarding Sid's games 3 and 4 (in 09), the series was at 2-0 and 2-1 and still could've gone either way.

This is not a hard concept to understand. It seems like you are taking pride in not understanding yet another basic idea.

***

Please don't ever get a job Gonzo. Your posts, from what I've seen in this thread, are truly legendary.

I would encourage you to continue looking up what “in doubt” means because you clearly have no idea how to use it

But…the series wasn’t over….they came back and won 3 straight…so it wasn’t out of reach. Your whole logic behind that just sounds ridiculous…

Crosbys offense dried up in games 5-7. Why don’t you use that against him?

“It’s not a hard concept to understand.” That’s rich coming from someone who doesn’t know how to use “in doubt.”

The point was quite clear and that poster used that weak argument is a discredited thread a couple of years ago to somehow prove that Crosby was in his opinion one of the worst defensive forwards in the league.

Go watch the video I posted and you certainly have watched him enough to know that he plays a very strong 200 foot game in comparison to other tip scoring players.

And you further his point by deflecting and using other arguments to justify yours. Datysuk a PK has nothing to do with Crosby. You just needed to point that out because you were in a crunch..

 

[GreatGonzo]

My point is about impact in meaningful games.

In 09, Crosby provided some offense in meaningful games 3 and 4, ie where Detroit was up 2-0 and then 2-1. If Crosby doesn't play gm 4, the Pens don't win that game and they likely don't go on to win the series.

***

Meanwhile...

"Remind me, what were Crosby's McDavid's numbers in game 7 in '09 2024. Better yet... what were his numbers in any game where the series was close..."

Re: McDavid -- 1 assist on the opening goal of game 2. The other 4 games, nothing which legitimately impacted the series (arguably one of his two points in garbage time of gm 3 might have also been relevant, but I personally wouldn't take that argument).

No sane person would try to argue McDavid was as clutch as Sid (which is the larger argument here that it seems you are trying to poke holes in). What a clownish attempt at a 'gotcha' you just made. Exactly what I expected from you, you did not disappoint.

And McDavid provided offense in games 4 and 5. If McDavid doesn’t play game 4 or 5, do they win? The same logic can be applied..

Crosby had 1 assist in a 4-2 win, apparently that ONE assist was far more valuable than McDavids points through games 1-3…

So regarding game 3….basically it would have been better if he didn’t score any points at all and the team lost 3-0? Either way you would complain about his play…So your logic there falls flat…

“No same person would ever argue that he was as clutch as Sid.” Do me a favor and go make a poll and ask that question…you might surprise yourself..

Crosby: 7-1-2-3 -3, no points in games 1-2,5-7…clutch!

 

[Frank Drebin]

Jagr has lost pretty comfortably to Crosby in recent polls so I don't think he'd do better against McDavid.

That being said, I think it would be a fun comparison.

I’m curious to see these threads and the reasoning behind them

 

[PainForShane]

And McDavid provided offense in games 4 and 5. If McDavid doesn’t play game 4 or 5, do they win? The same logic can be applied..

Crosby had 1 assist in a 4-2 win, apparently that ONE assist was far more valuable than McDavids points through games 1-3…

So regarding game 3….basically it would have been better if he didn’t score any points at all and the team lost 3-0? Either way you would complain about his play…So your logic there falls flat…

“No same person would ever argue that he was as clutch as Sid.” Do me a favor and go make a poll and ask that question…you might surprise yourself..

Crosby: 7-1-2-3 -3, no points in games 1-2,5-7…clutch!

how lost are these posts. lmao

 

[Felidae]

I’m curious to see these threads and the reasoning behind them

This is the most recent one

Jagr vs Crosby

Who better all time

forums.hfboards.com

 

[GreatGonzo]

how lost are you rn. lmao

So wait, you can use that logic for Crosby but I can’t say the same thing about McDavid?

Just say you have no argument and struggle to even form basic sentences. It would be easier for all of us, including yourself.

Your logic: 3 points in 7 games, scoreless for 5/7, no points in games 6 or 7….CLUTCH!!
11 points in 7 games, record holding 8 points in two elimination games, scoreless in games 6 and 7….WASNT IMPACTFUL OR MEANINGFULL!!

Seriously, since your are so secure with your logic. Go make a poll and ask the people….because apparently you know more than the league and the people associated with it..

 

[PainForShane]

So wait, you can use that logic for Crosby but I can’t say the same thing about McDavid?

Just say you have no argument and struggle to even form basic sentences. It would be easier for all of us, including yourself.

Your logic: 3 points in 7 games, scoreless for 5/7, no points in games 6 or 7….CLUTCH!!
11 points in 7 games, record holding 8 points in two elimination games, scoreless in games 6 and 7….WASNT IMPACTFUL OR MEANINGFULL!!

Seriously, since your are so secure with your logic. Go make a poll and ask the people….because apparently you know more than the league and the people associated with it..

I did use the same logic for both Crosby and McDavid. It's clear that you don't understand the discussion you've actively chosen to take part in.

Your summary of my logic is completely wrong as well.

It's not my problem or responsibility to solve the world's ignorance and / or stupidity.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I did use the same logic for both Crosby and McDavid. It's clear that you don't understand the discussion you've actively chosen to take part in.

Your summary of my logic is completely wrong as well.

It's not my problem or responsibility to solve the world's ignorance and / or stupidity.

Yet McDavids 8 points in those games(NHL record) aren’t as impactful, meaningful, or clutch….but all 3 of Crosbys points are…

That’s literally been your argument this entire time

No, but it’s your job to solve your own…might want to get on that.

 

[PainForShane]

Yet McDavids 8 points in those games(NHL record) aren’t as impactful, meaningful, or clutch….but all 3 of Crosbys points are…

That’s literally been your argument this entire time

No, but it’s your job to solve your own…might want to get on that.

Yes, that has been my argument. Due to the context of 'meaningful games' which you still don't understand.

Either way, congratulations in this particular situation you understand half the argument, it's been spelled out in basic English for you multiple times (and to be clear you went out of your way to not understand it the first few times). Not sure whether you will understand basic English next time but at least this time you got halfway there. Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yes, that has been my argument. Congratulations in this particular situation you understand basic english after it has been spelled out for you multiple times. Not sure whether you will next time. Good luck!

You just said “your summary of my logic is completely wrong.” Then say “yes, that was my argument.” Maybe pick one and stick with it?

I love that instead of answering basic questions and debating things, you resort to attacking my grammar and basic English….

Like, we get it. You can’t debate. You can barely handle basic concepts…like games 4 and 5 being meaningful games and his 8 points being impactful. The league seems to agree, yet here you are…

 

[PainForShane]

You just said “your summary of my logic is completely wrong.” Then say “yes, that was my argument.” Maybe pick one and stick with it?

I love that instead of answering basic questions and debating things, you resort to attacking my grammar and basic English….

Like, we get it. You can’t debate. You can barely handle basic concepts…like games 4 and 5 being meaningful games and his 8 points being impactful. The league seems to agree, yet here you are…

Imo games 4 and 5 in this year's SCF weren't meaningful games. We've been over this.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Imo games 4 and 5 in this year's SCF weren't meaningful games. We've been over this.

Yea they were

You literally have no proof that they weren’t. You keep implying the same BS. Yet it’s now an NHL Stanley cup finals record….

Weird that they keep records for “meaningless games” and “meaningless points.”

 

[wetcoast]

I don't subscribe to the notion of using "most people" as a voice of authority.

They really aren't, but do go on.

Crosby was wholly absent defensively early in his career, in his elder years he's gotten just about as bad again. There was a brief lull of mediocrity in the middle of his career, but beyond that... it's an invented narrative that holds no merit.

This sounds like something MJs man in Detroit would say but like I said usually when most people view a player fairly and come to that conclusion I'll take that and what my eyes see over some random posters biased and frankly nonsensical viewpoints and I used that phrase charitably at this point.

Did Crosby kick your dog or something?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816154640796283243

Didn't he also say he didn't talk to McDavid about Knoblauch? And Holland said the opposite.

 

[wetcoast]

not following, Malkin wasn’t in the league in Crosby’s rookie season, and Crosby missed one game that year.
So how does Malkin not in the league affect, that Pens have a better record when Crosby is out and Malkin is in.

In his rookie season Crosby's supporting cast was horrible and he was 18 it's like grading Bedard this season say if in 3 or 4 years he misses some games and the team has a better winning % than this season it's not because of Crosby but different team situations.

The user knows full well how week that argument is but he has his own agenda.

Your post betrays a severe lack of understanding for what is being discussed here.

No I understand what is being discussed and your viewpoint about anything Crosby as do most people reading this thread.

 

[GreatGonzo]

@PainForShane

“First player with back-to-back four-point games in the Stanley Cup Final.”

“A record eight points when facing elimination in a single Stanley Cup Final.”

“Tied for most points when facing elimination in a single playoff year.”

“Most points in a single Stanley Cup Final, active player”

Some others…

“Fourth for points in a playoff year”

“Most assists, single playoff season.”


But please, go on about how meaningless those games and points were and how “underwhelming” he was compared to Crosby…

 

[wetcoast]

Datsyuk's career PK TOI per game is more than double Crosby's in the regular season and 5x Crosby's in the playoffs.

You don't have a point.

Of course, Datsyuk's on-ice goals against is light years ahead of Sidney Crosby's, you know, because Datsyuk was actually great at defense whereas Crosby is often among the worst players in the entire NHL defensively.

Just last year Crosby was on the ice for 93 ES goals against. Sid was the second worst defensive player on his entire team. -That is a piss poor defensive result.

Thank you for making my point about cherry picking then providing a couple of examples.

 

[Video Nasty]

Imo games 4 and 5 in this year's SCF weren't meaningful games. We've been over this.

What is this nonsense? Until the fourth game is won, every single game in the SCF is a meaningful game. The Oilers were within a goal with a few minutes left in Game 7 after being down in the series. The Oilers won three straight elimination games. How the hell isn’t that meaningful?

 

[GreatGonzo]

What is this nonsense? Until the fourth game is won, every single game in the SCF is a meaningful game. The Oilers were within a goal with a few minutes left in Game 7 after being down in the series. The Oilers won three straight elimination games. How the hell isn’t that meaningful?

He doesn’t understand what an “elimination game” means. He also doesn’t get that if they would have lost either of those games, the series is over. But please go easy on him, clearly he’s not working with a full deck up there…

 

[Nadal On Clay]

You have that backwards

It’s Crosby fans desperately hoping that mcdavid doesn’t win the cup because that is literally the only thing that Sid has accomplished that mcdavid has not, yet

Wait and see
At the end of mcdavids career the answer will be obvious

Mcdavid is the fourth most dominant player to play the game in the last 50 years and there is no one close

I know it might be hard to cope with as an Oilers fan, but you have to entertain the possibility that McDavid might not ever win the cup.

Pens fans know how hard it is to win.. good chance they had Crosby on their team to make sure they got over the hump (multiple times)

 

[GreatGonzo]

I know it might be hard to cope with as an Oilers fan, but you have to entertain the possibility that McDavid might not ever win the cup.

Pens fans know how hard it is to win.. good chance they had Crosby on their team to make sure they got over the hump (multiple times)

What else does your crystal ball tell you

Crazy how many like to entertain the idea that Crosby is the answer that the oilers need and are looking for. All while McDavid simply isn’t a “winner.”