Is clutch something that is a skill set and if it is do our players have enough of it?

[Ginger Papa]

Hi everyone,

I decided to wait a couple of days to respectfully allow you some time to grieve & vent after that painful loss. Figured this Thread might catch many of you as the PGT is winding down.

I just wanted to say thank you for being so welcoming and I look forward to visiting you next Season. I still believe this core can win & think it’s like a Capitals situation - some complementary changes but nothing drastic. Your Boys have some battle scars from playing a Champion & giving them all they could handle, that will benefit them next year. I believe they come back more focused than ever and on a mission.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

On the contrary. They weren't exactly the 70s flyers

They had a lot of skills on that team. Berezin, Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Mogilny

Kaberle and Mogilny would have deadly 3 on 3

Mats took a lot of abuse along the boards. He would have gotten 10 more per season if he had the space today

I have this image in my head of Tomas Kaberle still refusing to shoot even in a 3-on-3 situation.

Then I realize it might not be as unrealistic as I thought.

 

[wingman75]

I can picture Krieder yelling in the dressing room F the xGF% go out there and get the GF%. The expected bullshit doesnt mean anything. Go score goals.

Leafs leadsrship is as soft as butter. No anger, no frustration.

All we ever get are f***ing tears. Are you kidding me? It's great that they are disappointed, but I would rather see anger than sadness.

 

[fahad203]

All we ever get are f***ing tears. Are you kidding me? It's great that they are disappointed, but I would rather see anger than sadness.

Last year MacKinnon went off on the camera blaming himself. "I havent won shit"

Nobody gets angry. Nobody gets upset any loss

 

[keonsbitterness]

Clutch is made up but if people wanna believe it.. have at it

Agree and disagree. Some players/teams tend to thrive in pressure situations more than others sometimes even if said player/team is perceived to have less talent. Problem is there's no stat that can predict or account for that because human psychology isn't an exact science.

 

[Gabriel426]

It is a habit due to high end skills.
They are used to making these plays and scoring. They need to learn that banging in a rebound or a puck bouncing off a skate or two count as much as a one timer off a pretty pass or deking around 2 players before passing to someone for an open net tap in.
You can never get a lucky bounce if you don’t shoot the puck toward the net.
If I am the coach, I would list out what I want.
1. More shots on net
2. I want to see players drive to the net with and without the puck. And point them out to players right after their shift that they should have driven to the net or skate toward the net.
3. Order the Dman to standup instead when opposing players are driving toward the net. As much as I love TJ and I know his D game is about his stick checking. That Paul goal would never happen if it was Muz, Gio, Bear and maybe even Reilly in TJ spot bc they would have stood ground and pound on Paul.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Hi everyone,

I decided to wait a couple of days to respectfully allow you some time to grieve & vent after that painful loss. Figured this Thread might catch many of you as the PGT is winding down.

I just wanted to say thank you for being so welcoming and I look forward to visiting you next Season. I still believe this core can win & think it’s like a Capitals situation - some complementary changes but nothing drastic. Your Boys have some battle scars from playing a Champion & giving them all they could handle, that will benefit them next year. I believe they come back more focused than ever and on a mission.

View attachment 547963

You entertained me. S'all good, man.

 

[PromisedLand]

All we ever get are f***ing tears. Are you kidding me? It's great that they are disappointed, but I would rather see anger than sadness.

Exactly! The only time I want to see tears is when you are lifting the cup. Tears of joy. Anything else should make you mad and pissed off.

The core was soft and is coddled into further cream puff softness by this management. Get Tough! Mental toughness does not come from being coddled

 

[wingman75]

Last year MacKinnon went off on the camera blaming himself. "I havent won shit"

Nobody gets angry. Nobody gets upset any loss

Yes. good catch. All I heard was "game of inches", "we have to be better". Who is standing up in that room and saying "I have to be better" other than Jack Campbell? I listened to all the post game pressers, and I don't remember hearing it... maybe my anger was blinding me.

And it doesn't mean you get angry and kick a poor dog, you take that anger and use it to make yourself stronger for the touogh moments that will come next season. Maybe it is something you either have or you don't? We seem to have a lot of don'ts.

 

[fahad203]

Clutch starts at one position. Goaltending

Sydney Crosby scored the winner at the Olympics. Everyone remembers that.. do you remeber Loungo making very difficult shoulder save 10 seconds prior?

Cujo used to save our bacon. Buy us time and Sundin would come through

Same with Price last year. He would buy you that extra time. Thats goaltending

 

[Dave92]

Clutch is made up but if people wanna believe it.. have at it

Definitely a real thing, have you done any activity competitively and been affected by nerves?

 

[Suntouchable13]

He and Gary Roberts were the only wingers I remember being worth a shit in that run but it's been so long that I could be wrong. It's funny, the Leafs lost to a team coached by Paul Maurice in the 2002 playoffs and a few years later Maurice f***ed the Leafs again by coaching them.

Leafs just ran out of gas by the ECF that year. 2 grueling 7 game series (one of which was a pure bloodbath) will do that to a team.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Agree and disagree. Some players/teams tend to thrive in pressure situations more than others sometimes even if said player/team is perceived to have less talent. Problem is there's no stat that can predict or account for that because human psychology isn't an exact science.

Pretty much what it comes down to. Same with this whole "killer instinct" thing.

And before anyone says it, it is not a team culture problem either. Maybe a collective team mentality problem, given they have the added pressure of getting that monkey off of their back, but nothing anyone says or does will make any difference until they can break through it. A personnel change and hours of counselling won't make a difference. A lucky bounce and some consistency will.

 

[Gabriel426]

Clutch is made up but if people wanna believe it.. have at it

I believe being clutch is real but it is not a quality that can’t be gain through exp. Although some people just have the belief since birth. For example, CR7 was show off kid when he first broke into the World stage with ManU but when Portugal were picking players for penalty shootout to qualify for the next round, he was chosen to take the last kick, not Figo(best player in the World at that time), Rui Costa(another legend) but CR7.

Anyhow, I think the boys will learn and hopefully become clutch next playoffs.

 

[fahad203]

Pretty much what it comes down to. Same with this whole "killer instinct" thing.

And before anyone says it, it is not a team culture problem either. Maybe a collective team mentality problem, given they have the added pressure of getting that monkey off of their back, but nothing anyone says or does will make any difference until they can break through it. A personnel change and hours of counselling won't make a difference. A lucky bounce and some consistency will.

Its a positional problem

Boston was clutch because they had goaltending

Leafs and sundin were clutch because they had cujo and belfour

Martinez was for LA was clutch because of Quick

You have goaltending. You improves your chances of being clutch


Crosby is just born that way. Hes the exceptiom
N

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yes. good catch. All I heard was "game of inches", "we have to be better". Who is standing up in that room and saying "I have to be better" other than Jack Campbell? I listened to all the post game pressers, and I don't remember hearing it... maybe my anger was blinding me.

And it doesn't mean you get angry and kick a poor dog, you take that anger and use it to make yourself stronger for the touogh moments that will come next season. Maybe it is something you either have or you don't? We seem to have a lot of don'ts.

I would stop caring what they say in post-games. That is not what they actually think. They have to deal with post-games more than pretty much anyone else and they can never speak their minds (mostly because we'd either get fined or our media will turn it into an entire thing which makes it that much worse).

If they say "we need to be better" again, media and fans will think they have an inferiority complex or didn't give it their full effort. At this point, I would rather they not even have to face media, especially right after the game, and just let them get angry in the locker room or in private.

 

[pcruz]

Marner had ZERO shots on goal in Game 7 against tampa. ZERO. No not a typo

Meanwhile....

There is a difference between playing a team that was not expected to make the playoffs and then went ahead and lost their best player; and a team who has won the last 2 championships.

LA had no business being in the playoffs at all.

McDavid is also the best player in the league.

Marner is not the best player in the league, had an assist in game 7 and hit the post. He also threw the body around and killed penalties.

What is the comparison again?

Care to show us the stats for Kucherov, Point, Stamkos. I'll do it for you:

	G	A	Pts	Shots	Hits	Blocks	Takeaways	PP Pts	+/-
Matthews	4	5	9	29	32	6	9	2	+1
Marner	2	6	8	21	10	8	7	1	+3
Kucherov	2	6	8	23	8	1	7	5	-5
Point	2	2	4	21	17	5	2	1	-6
Stamkos	2	2	4	18	22	3	1	2	-2

 

[Daisy Jane]

Hi everyone,

I decided to wait a couple of days to respectfully allow you some time to grieve & vent after that painful loss. Figured this Thread might catch many of you as the PGT is winding down.

I just wanted to say thank you for being so welcoming and I look forward to visiting you next Season. I still believe this core can win & think it’s like a Capitals situation - some complementary changes but nothing drastic. Your Boys have some battle scars from playing a Champion & giving them all they could handle, that will benefit them next year. I believe they come back more focused than ever and on a mission.

View attachment 547963

thank you again for your help. I didn't realize you were not from around these parts. feel free to come again

 

[PromisedLand]

There is a difference between playing a team that was not expected to make the playoffs and then went ahead and lost their best player; and a team who has won the last 2 championships.

LA had no business being in the playoffs at all.

McDavid is also the best player in the league.

Marner is not the best player in the league, had an assist in game 7 and hit the post. He also threw the body around and killed penalties.

What is the comparison again?

Care to show us the stats for Kucherov, Point, Stamkos. I'll do it for you:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD]Shots[/TD]
[TD]Hits[/TD]
[TD]Blocks[/TD]
[TD]Takeaways[/TD]
[TD]PP Pts[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]+1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marner[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]+3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kucherov[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]-5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Point[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]-6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stamkos[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Point was playing injured and kucherov had been sick for half the series. Not to froget that tampa has won 2 cups back 2 back and have had the most busy schedule of any other team in the league.

What is the Leafs excuse for not showing the F up in Game 2, Game 4, and then Game 7?

Oh right.... Dubas fans have the excuses already lined up....

I guess the depth of Leafs should have shown up; it didn't. Who assembled that depth? Did I assemble that depth?

 

[TGB]

The Leafs were actually pretty clutch this series. The problem was discipline: they got pretty desperate in Game 7, which was strange because they had the whole game but were throwing low chance shots at the net the whole game. The Leafs that actually scored with the kind of awesome surgical shots that have been winning games this series came from the vets: Tavares and Reilly.

Why did a bunch of young guys lose their edge and start playing like randos in a mainstream shooter? I dunno. How do you fix it? Experience, I guess? Leadership? Coaching? One thing is for certain, blaming Dubas or anyone other than the players themselves is going to fix anything because the SAME players will still be here making 10 mil a year.

 

[pcruz]

Point was playing injured and kucherov had been sick for half the series. Not to froget that tampa has won 2 cups back 2 back and have had the most busy schedule of any other team in the league.

What is the Leafs excuse for not showing the F up in Game 2, Game 4, and then Game 7?

Oh right.... Dubas fans have the excuses already lined up....

See that's where you show ignorance.

Why would you assume I am a Dubas fan?

I think his inability to stick to his guns with Nylander was a massive blunder.
Signing Matthews to a 5 year deal was a mistake.
Overpaid for Marner at the time.


Also, I couldn't care less if Point was playing injured the whole series or not, and whether Kucherov was sick.
Matthews needed wrist surgery last year and he was still criticized for his performance.
Montreal should have been swept and would have been if not for Price standing on his head Games 1, 5, 6; Dermott with a horrible giveaway in OT and a bad goal in another OT.

Oettinger just allowed a bad goal last night to Gaudreau. Does that all of a sudden make him a bad goalie in elimination games, and does it also make Gaudreau the new Justin Williams?
No.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I can picture Krieder yelling in the dressing room F the xGF% go out there and get the GF%. The expected bullshit doesnt mean anything. Go score goals.

Leafs leadsrship is as soft as butter. No anger, no frustration.

JT cross checked constantly and not even a reaction

 

[PromisedLand]

See that's where you show ignorance.

Why would you assume I am a Dubas fan?

I think his inability to stick to his guns with Nylander was a massive blunder.
Signing Matthews to a 5 year deal was a mistake.
Overpaid for Marner at the time.


Also, I couldn't care less if Point was playing injured the whole series or not, and whether Kucherov was sick.
Matthews needed wrist surgery last year and he was still criticized for his performance.
Montreal should have been swept and would have been if not for Price standing on his head Games 1, 5, 6; Dermott with a horrible giveaway in OT and a bad goal in another OT.

Oettinger just allowed a bad goal last night to Gaudreau. Does that all of a sudden make him a bad goalie in elimination games, and does it also make Gaudreau the new Justin Williams?
No.

Did all the teams playing Game 7 at home win the series and advance?

umm... all but the Leafs


Does that change the fact that Leafs did not get the job done?
No!


Does it change the fact that Leafs have been 1st round exit kings for 6 years in a row with 4 being under Dubas' tutelage?
No!

Does it change the fact that there no cap left for decent quality depth, or #1D or #1G?
No!


Does it change the fact that Dubas has spent assets left right and center like Halloween candies and only has 1st round exits to show for it?
No!

 

[pcruz]

Did all the teams playing Game 7 at home win the series and advance?

umm... all but the Leafs


Does that change the fact that Leafs did not get the job done?
No!


Does it change the fact that Leafs have been 1st round exit kings for 6 years in a row with 4 being under Dubas' tutelage?
No!

Does it change the fact that there no cap left for decent quality depth, or #1D or #1G?
No!


Does it change the fact that Dubas has spent assets left right and center like Halloween candies and only has 1st round exits to show for it?
No!

What does that matter?

Toronto played Tampa Bay.

Edmonton played a team that was slated to miss the playoffs and who also lost their best player during the season.

Calgary played a team that had like 8 shots on goal in game 1 and didn't even show up for 3/4 of game 7. Still went to overtime in order to win.

The Rangers played a team that had lost their goalie and then got him back and also lost Crosby for a few games. They were also outplayed badly and scored a goal to force overtime in game 7 that the league should be held accountable for.

The only game 7 that was decided well in advance of the final whistle was Carolina and Boston.

Stop crying over what has happened in the past and can't be fixed now (draft picks spent and whatnot). There is no point in fixating on that when thinking of whether the current group is good enough to win now and going forward.

When you go shopping for some big ticket item, you do the research before the purchase. After the purchase, there is no point in thinking of what other people paid for similar products because it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[PromisedLand]

What does that matter?

Toronto played Tampa Bay.

Edmonton played a team that was slated to miss the playoffs and who also lost their best player during the season.

Calgary played a team that had like 8 shots on goal in game 1 and didn't even show up for 3/4 of game 7. Still went to overtime in order to win.

The Rangers played a team that had lost their goalie and then got him back and also lost Crosby for a few games. They were also outplayed badly and scored a goal to force overtime in game 7 that the league should be held accountable for.

The only game 7 that was decided well in advance of the final whistle was Carolina and Boston.

Stop crying over what has happened in the past and can't be fixed now (draft picks spent and whatnot). There is no point in fixating on that when thinking of whether the current group is good enough to win now and going forward.

When you go shopping for some big ticket item, you do the research before the purchase. After the purchase, there is no point in thinking of what other people paid for similar products because it doesn't matter anymore.

Past actions are the indication of what the morons in power will do in future. If you haven't learned that i dont know what else to say