Is Brooks Orpik's new contract cap circumvention?

[Porter Stoutheart]

I guess if another team came along and said hey, we offered Orpik $2M and he took $1M to play in Washington, and he never sold his house there or moved away, there could be things like that which added circumstantially to the idea that it was colluded all along that Orpik would come back to the Caps cheaper.

Still didn't break rules, so I'm more in the "applaud teams for being smart enough to exploit loopholes" mindset than anything else.

 

[justafan22]

The leafs and tampa tried to do this in 2013 where the leafs would trade for Vinny, use a compliance buy out and then he signs back with tampa. What's the difference here in that a regular buyout is ok to do that, but a compliance wasn't?

 

[tucker3434]

The leafs and tampa tried to do this in 2013 where the leafs would trade for Vinny, use a compliance buy out and then he signs back with tampa. What's the difference here in that a regular buyout is ok to do that, but a compliance wasn't?

The biggest difference is that the Avs/Caps trade could stand on its own. It was a hockey trade that served a purpose for both sides without any consideration given to subsequent moves. The trade wasn’t contingent on the buyout. Washington does the trade either way. Can’t say the same for Tampa.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Yeah

In the Burkie days I remember the leafs Trying to Trade for Lecavalier and a 1st (Drouin I believe) with the intention of Buying our Vinny so that Tampa could bring him back at a more affordable price.

The deal was Blocked by the league

Is this not a similar situation?


Lol this was already mentioned...

 

[Mickey Marner]

It's a gray area. I don't have a problem with it personally, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it get patched up in the next cba.

 

[Voight]

Not at all.

He was free to sign with any of the other 30 teams after COL bought him out. Is it a shock he chose the Caps?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yeah

In the Burkie days I remember the leafs Trying to Trade for Lecavalier and a 1st (Drouin I believe) with the intention of Buying our Vinny so that Tampa could bring him back at a more affordable price.

The deal was Blocked by the league

Is this not a similar situation?


Lol this was already mentioned...

Not even close to the same, that was a compliance buyout and the deal depended on Toronto buying him out.

 

[Sam Spade]

If "equipment allergy" isn't I'm pretty sure this isn't.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

It's only a renegotiating tactic if you can prove that wsh knew in advance that Colorado would buy him out, thus by talking to Colorado and having a plan in place. It's also less likely that Colorado would give up a 2nd round pick for grubauer if this was the case.

Currently the trade is:

WASHINGTON
2nd + Orpik (1m)

COLORADO
Orpik cap hit (remainder of buyout) + Grubauer

Looks like Colorado overpaid to me.. goalies aren't worth much, is Grubauer worth a 2nd or thereabouts on his own? So he basically paid a 2nd and some cash for a goalie in order to give Orpik back for free? Annti raanta is better than Grubauer and got way less return than this. He fetched a 7th +, and was traded with Stepan...

Looks to me like Sakic wanted a goalie, potentially overpaid because he has all kinds of cap space, then bought out the player because "who cares, I have money". then WSH took advantage of this. Part of being a GM is taking advantage of what your peers give you, it's a competitive and tight business. Unless you can prove they talked about this in advance and Sakic actually told MacLellan he would buy him out so he could resign, you have nothing. It's possible that the MacLellan knew he would buy him out, but that just means he's a smart guy..

he fetched 7th OVERALL plus. not 7th rounder.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

I have no issues with it.

Also ur a devils fan pls remove rags avatar

I'd like to chime in that a Devs fan should never have a Rangers avatar, unless it is in a mocking fashion. Good point by Dominic here.

It is not cap circumvention. The words cap circumvention are lazily used, most often my media or peonic, small-market fans, to complain about financial creativity. What the Capitals and Avalanche did is allowed. Trades are allowed, buyouts are allowed, and a change of heart with intent to improve the former team is allowed.
It isn't cap circumvention, it's just smart. Every team can do this, you just need to be canny.

In closing, enough with this talk. Let's enjoy another year of Brooks Orpik. That alone is worth at least one million dollars, is it not?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

In my opinion, the league should implement a rule that you cannot buyout a player until it has been 1 full season since the time of acquiring/signing the player.

EDIT - Or the player has played 41+ games for your team.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

In my opinion, the league should implement a rule that you cannot buyout a player until it has been 1 full season since the time of acquiring/signing the player.

EDIT - Or the player has played 41+ games for your team.

For example: say the NJDevils traded for Callahan + something else from Tampa in June to help them out with their cap situation. NJ should not be allowed to buyout Callahan until the 2019 offseason.

Say the Devils and Lightning complete the same said trade around the holidays, and Callahan ends up dressing for them for the rest of the season. They should still be allowed to buy him out at the end of the year.

But say the Devils and Lightning complete the trade at the deadline, and Callahan only dresses half the games and plays 15 games in a Devils uniform, then they should not be allowed to buy him out until the summer of 2020. (in this case his contract would expire)


I do not think teams should be allowed to acquire a player via trade and then buy him out immediately.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

For example: say the NJDevils traded for Callahan + something else from Tampa in June to help them out with their cap situation. NJ should not be allowed to buyout Callahan until the 2019 offseason.

Say the Devils and Lightning complete the same said trade around the holidays, and Callahan ends up dressing for them for the rest of the season. They should still be allowed to buy him out at the end of the year.

But say the Devils and Lightning complete the trade at the deadline, and Callahan only dresses half the games and plays 15 games in a Devils uniform, then they should not be allowed to buy him out until the summer of 2020. (in this case his contract would expire)


I do not think teams should be allowed to acquire a player via trade and then buy him out immediately.

It’s a thing that happens in every sport, look at Carmelo Anthony the Hawks traded for him then immediately bought him out so he could sign wherever he wanted (ended up being Rockets)

 

[Stephen Gionta]

It’s a thing that happens in every sport, look at Carmelo Anthony the Hawks traded for him then immediately bought him out so he could sign wherever he wanted (ended up being Rockets)

At no point did I reference any other sport, I'm saying I don't think it should happen in our sport. Who the hell cares about basketball. They sign contracts that players can opt out of. does this league do that?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

At no point did I reference any other sport, I'm saying I don't think it should happen in our sport. Who the hell cares about basketball. They sign contracts that players can opt out of. does this league do that?

Players can’t opt out of contracts unless it’s specifically in the contract (called a player option). Team option is also a thing in some contracts.

 

[hockeykicker]

The leafs and tampa tried to do this in 2013 where the leafs would trade for Vinny, use a compliance buy out and then he signs back with tampa. What's the difference here in that a regular buyout is ok to do that, but a compliance wasn't?

because it wasant going to count against the leafs cap. it basically was the leafs get a top pick for the leafs paying the real money which didnt count against the cap. since you cant include a buyout in a deal, the bolts would have gotten nothing in return for the trade

 

[hockeykicker]

Yeah

In the Burkie days I remember the leafs Trying to Trade for Lecavalier and a 1st (Drouin I believe) with the intention of Buying our Vinny so that Tampa could bring him back at a more affordable price.

The deal was Blocked by the league

Is this not a similar situation?


Lol this was already mentioned...

because the leafs were not going to be penalized on the cap for buying him out. the leafs would have paid the actual money but it would not have hurt their cap. plus since you cant include a buyout in the deal you would need some guarantee that the leafs would actually buyout lecavalier and not keep him and the pick, lastly, the bolts werent getting anything in return since the buyout would have come after the trade and the bolts didnt actually get something in the trade

 

[Spirit of 67]

Do not care.

Bend the stupid rules all you like.

 

[North Cole]

he fetched 7th OVERALL plus. not 7th rounder.

Oops, didn't read that very well... That makes more sense then, since Raanta seems to be able to stand on his own as a tendy. I suppose we are going to find out sometime in the near future if Grubauer can take the next step or if he is another Darling.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't like it.

I get that its different from what the Hawks did with Hossa, for example, but it seems to be cap circumvention.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Well I gave the biggest piece of info, plus I assume most are informed and it isnt my job to do so.

Washington traded Orpik at 5.5 to Colorado, they bought him out, Washington then signed Orpik to 1m which is 4.5 lower. Both contracts were set to end July 1, 2019

It's not ?

I guess you don't care if your poll will be meaningful...

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

If folks think this is easily not circumvention, then I ask why has nobody done it yet during this recent CBA until now?

That poll didn't turn out the way you wanted, so let's try a different question ?

 

[bobbyking]

Dam he's overpaid at 5 m

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

It obviously is but the way it was executed was perfectly legal. Very smart way of doing it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Seeing how Orpik didn't sign with anyone for nearly 4 weeks after free agency opened, not sure I'd call it "cap circumvention". He seemed like he was waiting for something more or something better, but nothing better came.