Is best of the best tournaments dead?

[NyQuil]

Could you imagine football fans doing the same? Of course not. FIFA has real international competitions unlike the IIHF.

There’s a reason the Olympics play second fiddle to the World Cup and Euros in football.

 

[JackSlater]

There’s a reason the Olympics play second fiddle to the World Cup and Euros in football.

Don't bring that up. On a hockey forum where international hockey is discussed you are supposed to say that the Olympics is the pinnacle of a sport internationally by default and ignore instances where it isn't.

 

[BigBadBoar]

Well, of course it would be better if there was an international tournament where all the best players could show up. However, the reality is different and it probably won't change anytime soon. Thus, we can do anything but to enjoy the World Championship as it is.
I understand that for the NA fans, the Stanley Cup is something special and magnificent, but while I respect the quality of the NHL and the SC playoffs completely, I simply don't identify myself with neither of the teams. Those play in the cities I have never been to, in the countries I have never been to, have no emotional relationship to neither of them. Of course I enjoy the high quality hockey while watching them, appreciating all the skill the players are showing, but as a fan I simply enjoy the World Championships more. If I was from the USA or Canada, it would highly probably be the opposite way.

 

[Planet Hockey]

Could you imagine football fans doing the same? Of course not. FIFA has real international competitions unlike the IIHF.

I don't have to imagine it. As a soccer blogger, I live daily with fans ranking/dismissing various tournaments. "Qatar's win over Japan in the Asian Cup doesn't mean anything, Japan won't try hard again until 2022" blah blah.

Again, they're welcome to be lawyers instead of enjoying themselves. They just don't have the right to tell me what to think or how to feel.

 

[Planet Hockey]

Can you name an international tournament where a country had only 10% or less of its absolute best eligible players? Outside of the World Hockey Championships, that is.

3 off the top of my head. The '98 and '2002 Olympics when Bettman screwed a bunch of teams, and the 2018 Olympics when he screwed all of them but one.

If a country has less than 10% of its elite players at the Worlds its because they have bad organizational focus and a low % of players who take pride in the flag. Only 2-4 NHL teams are left playing by the time the WC begins. 90% of the NHL invitees can go and 100% of KHL/NL invitees can go. Many choose to, some choose not to.

It makes the Worlds a test of each hockey culture/organization in addition to a test of skill on the ice. The healthier programs send teams of great athletes including many All-Stars, the less healthy ones often don't. Showing up with a B-team and getting whipped isn't a black mark on the people who put on the event, it's the program's fault.

If a college team is terrible at recruiting and none of its players give a d***, is that because the NCAA sucks?

Team USA has been losing for 50+ years while its "fans" blame the IIHF instead of their own people. It's a uniquely North American pathology. I grew up in an NHL town and the league is "a watered-down garage league that nobody cares about" whenever the team is losing. When they win, that sort of talk goes away. Funny coincidence.

 

[BigBadBoar]

3 off the top of my head. The '98 and '2002 Olympics when Bettman screwed a bunch of teams, and the 2018 Olympics when he screwed all of them but one.

If a country has less than 10% of its elite players at the Worlds its because they have bad organizational focus and a low % of players who take pride in the flag. Only 2-4 NHL teams are left playing by the time the WC begins. 90% of the NHL invitees can go and 100% of KHL/NL invitees can go. Many choose to, some choose not to.

It makes the Worlds a test of each hockey culture/organization in addition to a test of skill on the ice. The healthier programs send teams of great athletes including many All-Stars, the less healthy ones often don't. Showing up with a B-team and getting whipped isn't a black mark on the people who put on the event, it's the program's fault.

If a college team is terrible at recruiting and none of its players give a d***, is that because the NCAA sucks?

Team USA has been losing for 50+ years while its "fans" blame the IIHF instead of their own people. It's a uniquely North American pathology. I grew up in an NHL town and the league is "a watered-down garage league that nobody cares about" whenever the team is losing. When they win, that sort of talk goes away. Funny coincidence.

I would not say that it is shame for Canada when many of their elite players excuse themselves from the WCH. The NA hockey culture is different from the European, I don't say better or worse but different. When the players from Europe were kids, they watched the WCH every year cheering for their national team. When NA players were kids, they did the same for their local/favourite NHL team. The overall hockey environment in which they grew up is very different. For example may people here in the Czech Republic were making jokes of the World Cup 2016, calling it a mock tournament. In fact, I am not afraid to say that only the minority of fans took this tournament seriously. WCH has simply much higher prestige among the fans here. The OG with the NHL participation enjoyed even much higher prestige, but this seems to be past at least for some time, hopefully not forever. On the other hand, only a small group of NHL freaks here cares about who wins the Stanley Cup. The others may watch it time to time, they are glad when some of the Czech guys score, may have their favourite players from other countries too, but there are rather a few fans who are real supporters of any NHL team.

It is a pity that there is no longer anything like the football (soccer) world cup of the rugby world cup, an event being 100% respected by all the players, staff, fans from all participating countries. This is a sad reality of the hockey world today.

 

[Planet Hockey]

I would not say that it is shame for Canada when many of their elite players excuse themselves from the WCH. The NA hockey culture is different from the European, I don't say better or worse but different. When the players from Europe were kids, they watched the WCH every year cheering for their national team. When NA players were kids, they did the same for their local/favourite NHL team. The overall hockey environment in which they grew up is very different. For example may people here in the Czech Republic were making jokes of the World Cup 2016, calling it a mock tournament. In fact, I am not afraid to say that only the minority of fans took this tournament seriously. WCH has simply much higher prestige among the fans here. The OG with the NHL participation enjoyed even much higher prestige, but this seems to be past at least for some time, hopefully not forever. On the other hand, only a small group of NHL freaks here cares about who wins the Stanley Cup. The others may watch it time to time, they are glad when some of the Czech guys score, may have their favourite players from other countries too, but there are rather a few fans who are real supporters of any NHL team.

It is a pity that there is no longer anything like the football (soccer) world cup of the rugby world cup, an event being 100% respected by all the players, staff, fans from all participating countries. This is a sad reality of the hockey world today.

I am not putting Team Canada in the category of stinkers. Canada sends excellent rosters to the WC and often wins it. "Absolute best players" is relative anyway. I'm happy if countries send 20+ players who are *among* their best and worthy representatives of the brand. People are squabbling over Canada's 3rd and 4th lines having 20-goal scorers instead of 30-goal scorers. If somebody only enjoys watching the top 10 or 20 NHL goal-scorers play hockey then they're a celebrity-hound more than a fan of the sport.

If you hand-picked a team of Canadian, or Russian, or Swedish players from the 8 NHL teams currently still alive, and matched them against the WC rosters of those countries, the national teams would probably win. So it's weird to hear Americans calling the WC a "joke" when its level of play is higher than the teams they watch so religiously.

I agree that support for the Worlds in Europe is amazing compared to the thin fan support from NA. But consider that Finland is among the worst recruiting programs right now. If Russia can put a great WC team together with all of its politics and internal conflict, then Suomi could too. It's a Finland problem not an IIHF problem.

I'm hoping a Russian gold in '19 gets under the US/Canada's skin and rekindles the old rivalries. Then we might see even more All-Star participation and NA fan support due to the Cold War 2.0 atmosphere.

 

[Nino33]

Me: There's never been a perfect "best on best" scenario anyway. Always some degree of snubs, omissions and injuries. Let's enjoy what we've got and stop putting every tournament in 1 of 2 boxes

Could you imagine football fans doing the same? Of course not. FIFA has real international competitions unlike the IIHF.

You don't have to imagine it, it's what all football fans actually do!...Olympic soccer is in one box (far less meaningful/important because it's not best-on-best) and the World Cup is in another box (the one that actually matters, because it's best-on-best)

 

[holyprime]

There’s a reason the Olympics play second fiddle to the World Cup and Euros in football.

Indeed. FIFA killed it to keep their tournament as the pinnacle of the sport. Now, who does that remind us of in hockey?

 

[Rob]

You don't have to imagine it, it's what all football fans actually do!...Olympic soccer is in one box (far less meaningful/important because it's not best-on-best) and the World Cup is in another box (the one that actually matters, because it's best-on-best)

My point was that football fans don’t have to treat all games as the same because they have a real World Cup with real qualification games played by their national teams. They don’t have to pretend the Olympics is the same caliber of tournament.

 

[Atas2000]

There’s a reason the Olympics play second fiddle to the World Cup and Euros in football.

The reason is there is already a best on best international tournament carried out by a international body and all local leagues send their players and would not dare to sabotage FIFA like the NHL sabotages IIHF.

 

[Rob]

I'm hoping a Russian gold in '19 gets under the US/Canada's skin and rekindles the old rivalries. Then we might see even more All-Star participation and NA fan support due to the Cold War 2.0 atmosphere.

It won't make a difference.