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Is Barkov already a lock for the HHOF?
- Thread starter SeanMoneyHands
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Yes, I agree, it is and always will be a cognitive/logical flaw of those who vote for it.
How can a player with less than 300 goals and less than 800 points be a 1st ballot lock? That makes no sense to me. I think he’s going to be a hall of famer and would be if career ended today, but 1st ballot lock seems like overkill to me…when you throw that out, numbers matter and his numbers don’t scream that. I know, he’s more than his offensive numbers, which should be obvious because if we are just considering hall of famer eligibility, his offensive numbers aren’t good enough…at this point
Greatzsky 99
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not yet, he hasnt excelled in International play yet, he has produced
good in that setting with those teammates, thats it, and thats (should not)
be enough, his senior year in Finland he was to young so i dont
put to much value in that, though a young Forsberg for ex already
had succeeded in seniors, not that i am putting barkov at forsbergs level.
good in that setting with those teammates, thats it, and thats (should not)
be enough, his senior year in Finland he was to young so i dont
put to much value in that, though a young Forsberg for ex already
had succeeded in seniors, not that i am putting barkov at forsbergs level.
It's because he's Finnish, ain't it?
'Fess up, Swede!
But honestly, solid case stated!
Greatzsky 99
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Its because he is 100 procent russian! (at least genetically)It's because he's Finnish, ain't it?
'Fess up, Swede!
But honestly, solid case stated!
also they got steamrolled against vegas and barkov was nowhere to be
seen then, im trying to point out flaws, in my opinion, this has started to
slide in to "myhos" territory, hes incredible, shuts down, its a snowball
effect, and its human to do it and be part of it.
To take the language that people put on mcdavid, he wasnt there , he didnt produce, he couldnt
shut down... etc
for me it has landed in, he has to produce(helping the team) in another inviroment, hes to
much a clay court specialist, can he do it on grass and hard court? otherwise he
is an NHL hall of fame, not HHOF.
Greatzsky 99
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Talking about finns, they hated our guts, finns didnt think there was a realIt's because he's Finnish, ain't it?
'Fess up, Swede!
But honestly, solid case stated!
swedish man, they had a show in the 80s i think, that was called all swedes are gay
but i have known and still know finns, they are great, they had something special,
good charachters.
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ClydeLee
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They have different values determinations than you, you don't have to be over the top about it.
They don't subscribe to a view there can be individualism in this team sport. They go too far with it, but you as well are on an extreme individualist point.
Yes. Because HHoF is supposed to be an individual achievement.
A player shouldn't get in in part because he was lucky to be a member of a team good enough to win a team award and then have that team award act as his individual accomplishment.
I hold it in the utmost contempt. Strong words but when championships are brought incessantly as if individual awards by fans in all sports who refuse to recognize the cognitive flaw thst it is, I'ma gonna go way over the top.
Well then, I guess Gadjovich > Perrreault/Dionne/et al
And does Savard's Cup win make him a great even though he had no significant part in it?
Talking about finns, they hated our guts, finns didnt think there was a real
swedish man, they had a show in the 80s i think, that was called all swedes are gay
but i have known and still know finns, they are great, they had something special,
good charachters.
For real???
Wow. I would love ro watch that show just to see it. Lol
Maybe it was just referring to Kent Nilsson?
SharksFan1992
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Halo effect.
A player wins a Cup and his legend goes beyond....
Let us see what he can do in 2026!
Barkov Watch is on!
HolyHagelin
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It might be worth remembering that playing ability is not the only thing that is supposed to be considered. They also list "sense of fair play, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general". Barkov is basically the poster boy for what they say they want, and he has awards for all of this shit. He's literally almost perfect.
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HolyHagelin
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You are exhibiting a cognitive/logical flaw every time you discount actual results. You sound like an MLB fan who thinks that someone who put up more WAR contributed more to his team than someone who put up more runs and RBI. The fact is, runs and RBI win games, and winning games is the whole point. Of course someone that wins all the time gets extra credit for winning - as Herm Edwards reminded us all, it's why they play the games. What actually happened on the ice is what matters for HOF entry, and the Cup is decided on the ice.
As others have said, the success of the Panthers is not happening in a vacuum - it's happening in large part because of Barkov's contributions. He's a beast, has been for years, and they are built around him. Teams take on the identity and character of their best players and leaders, and the identity of Florida with Barkov as their leader is "tough, excellent defensively, winners." Your silly counterfactuals about "what if he was in Buffalo" completely ignore that the current roster was built with the knowledge of what they have in Barkov, with one specific goal of maximizing what he could bring to the table, taking full value from his prodigious skills.
Anyway I voted "not yet but will be" because unless you're bobby orr, longevity matters.
Great, he contributed to a Cup win. Did he win it himself? Nope.
Ergo it should be of ZERO consideration for him or anyone else in HBoF talks, GOAT talks or just plain 'ol "How good is Player Z?" talks.
Bottom line is and always will be: TEAMS win games, not any one player alone.
Do you make the same argument for players on losing teams?
"He is a great player, of the team's 34 wins, he was a great contributor to 22 of them."
Appealing to Cup wins is weak. It's an attempt to bolster ab argument by passing off a team accomplishment as a individual accomplishment and hiw great a contribution was made is irrelevant because for a team to win they have to have several ingredients in place- regsrdless if Barkov is the player the team built around.
When it comes to the Cup, Micheal Jackson makes for an apt theme song
You are not alone 
Plural
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Well then, I guess Gadjovich > Perrreault/Dionne/et al
And does Savard's Cup win make him a great even though he had no significant part in it?
Yes to all. Only cups matter. That's why every reasonable fan ranks Gadjovich above McDavid.
I am obviously just yanking you'r chains. This cup counting argument has been beaten to death on this forum. You're not on to something new or these one liners you're throwing out are not original or even clever.
Barkov winning back to back Cups as #1C and captain has value. For a lot of hockey fans and certainly for HoF committee.
Championsips matter, but they need context. That's why Bourque winning his last year doesn't lift him in the all-time lists. But for example, Jonathan Toews winning as core piece, captain and #1C does have impact on his career value.
Barkov is hall of fame player, cups or not. But his accomplishements as leader of Stanle Cup winning team has value. How much value? I guess it's in the eye of the beholder.
Nah. No value regardless of context
He made a contribution to a Cup win.
Well, great, but only one team wins a Cup but there are many players who made contributions to their team making the finals, CF, past the second round etc or otherwise just perform well in the PO
If you can't demonstrate Player X is better than Player Y because his team won the Cup , then it's a useless metric in individual player assessments and has no value
It's just a cognitive/logical flaw- the Halo Effect
Plural
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I don't think you're bringing anything new to the discussion. This topic has been discussed and debated to death on this forum. While there is a point in your POV, it's obviously much more nyanced topic you're making it out to be.
Simplistic cup counting is not indicator of players abilities. But there are a lot of sports fans, analysts and experts who consider championship performances as a part of players legacy and makeup. There are reasons for this, some better and some worse. But they are not all without merit.
When time passes and if you feel interested in discussing on this forum (or many others) you most likely will see the merits yourself. Or you're not as open to learn as you like to advertise on most of your posts here.
This subject has a lot of discussions and debates in the past. HoH sub-section is a good place to dig around for them.
For what it's worth, ten years back I would have agreed with you 100%.
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