Is 4 Nations a “Best on Best”?

Proof on Russia being better than Finland?

Best on Best results? Clearly no.

On paper? Kind of yes, but kind of no.
Russian NHL players are far superior to Finland NHL players in 2024-25. Not sure why referring to very old results for that purpose. I don't think Teemu Selanne is coming out of retirement. Obviously anything can happen in a best of one, with over-reliance on top players and then introduce system play, etc.

Not sure why people always try and use selective or manipulative language to downplay the difference in quality of Forwards. Kucherov, Panarin and Kaprizov being "wingers" instead of "centers' doesn't mean that they aren't absolutely capable of driving play.

Finland essentially has one very good line worth of forwards, squeeze hard enough and get two lines with favorable assumptions of what you're going to get out of a certain guys, and then it drops off rather quick.

This is each country's Skaters sorted by scoring rank for 2024-25 season.

3 vs. 9
24 vs. 36
29 vs. 42
34 vs. 94
68 vs. 108
92 vs. 115
107 vs. 138
113 vs. 154
117 vs. 197
121 vs. 200
130 vs. 221
134 vs. 227
136 vs. 307
150 vs. 313
172 vs. 315
218 vs. 323
220 vs. 350
231 vs. 355
256 vs. 383
292 vs. 449
302 vs. 456
312 vs. 458
339 vs. 477
361 vs. 497
364 vs. 531
379 vs. 533
386 vs. 554
394 vs. 589
438 vs. 614
462 vs. 629
465 vs. 635
467 vs. 658
473
484
507
523
553
556
621
625
641
 
It’s hilarious that the team with the best record in the NHL will be sending no players to this thing. Thankful for this as a fan of the Capitals. I’m sure if the same people were deciding on rosters right now, that might not be the case. Though the most obvious candidate would be goaltender Logan Thompson, who is apparently thought to be a total ______ by the coaches in Team Canada, but seems to be the best Canadian goalie so far this year.

Jets are sending three players... :P
 
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The phrase "best on best" has been used to pump things up into more than they are. For example, back when the NHL was 80%+ Canadian - it's a bit of a low bar to call that "best on best." More often it was more like "Allstar team vs scrubs."
 
The phrase "best on best" has been used to pump things up into more than they are. For example, back when the NHL was 80%+ Canadian - it's a bit of a low bar to call that "best on best." More often it was more like "Allstar team vs scrubs."
The oft-cited first "best on best" tournament was the 1976 Canada Cup, and the Soviets didn't even bring their best players. It's generally a marketing term.
 
No

Only 4 nations.

Finland is not even allowed to ice their best team for this tournament.

Such a strange event with zero history behind it.
 
No. It's the stoopidest "tournament" in the history of tournaments.


No idea why it's happening and don't even know if I'll tune in.



If a half dozen superstars get their legs broken over this silliness, Bettman will have only himself to blame.


They can't? Then why are Ovechkin and Kaprizov and a dozen other Russians playing in the NHL right now?
I said Russia as a country... Same thing next year with the winter Olympics, no one will represent Russia.
 
Don't overlook taxes.
The NHL is where the money is, but NHLers are also taxed at an enormous rate.

I'm not sure what rates are in Fin, Swe, etc., but a $1 million NHL salary is the rough equivalent of a $500K KHL salary after taxes (net earnings).
That's why i used 2M$/yr in my example. If you are making only 1M$/year in the NHL, you are considered a journey man/ role player and most probably play on the 4th line or 7-8th defenseman. These players would not be on any National team of the top 5 countries in the world.
 
Yes, but just with no Russia.

But - that's more about the political climate than anything NHL is doing. Russia didn't make the past olympics either.

Maybe it's a bit weird that it's only 4 teams - but when it's the clear best 4 teams (minus Russia), it's fine.
 
Well, with the 4 countries playing in it, yes. But overall no. Russia, Czechs, Slovakia are all not playing. With the Challenge Cup in 1979 it wasn't the Canada Cup with training camps and lots of practice time or anything. It was like this, it was to replace the All-Star game. And it was the Soviets vs. the NHL. Technically not Canada as the team had all Canadians plus three Swedes. To me it is still important but the Canada Cups were the key to the best on bests. That was the real tournaments.
Agree, that is the same comparison I use. It's worthwhile to win, yes, just as the Challenge Cup was or Rendez-vous 87. Even the Summit Series in 1972 or 1974. Not quite the same as the 2026 Olympics coming up, though. Assuming the NHL doesn't f*** it up.

Nope. There are restrictions on rosters, even for those countries participating.

Granted the NHL is where the elite talent is, but countries must have access to their entire national talent pool.

Like with all Finland injuries, some Euro based player would likely make it over Vaakanainen if available.
Agreed, this is an important point.
 
It can't be best on best if some of the best players that are in other countries don't have those countries participating (thanks Bettman, and NHL). Olympics would be more best of best, unless it is a boycott year.
 
That's why i used 2M$/yr in my example. If you are making only 1M$/year in the NHL, you are considered a journey man/ role player and most probably play on the 4th line or 7-8th defenseman. These players would not be on any National team of the top 5 countries in the world.

ELC are less than a million USD. Carlsson, Voronkov, Mintyukov, Michkov?

Nikishin (KHL) would make team Russia. So would *mabye* Kuznetsov, depending on who the coach is.
 
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I wonder if soccer fans said this about the first FIFA World Cup
Yeah these other sports can try as they might to recreate a FIFA World Cup type of thing, but they always fall short. The Olympic Football Tournament didn't have real prestige behind it until 1924, so there was not a long history to that point. Following the first World Cup, Football was dropped from the Olympics in 1932 and by the time it returned in 1936, it had lost its prestige. So FIFA essentially did make a coup for it that was successful, but it would be much harder to do with a new event in a different sport given the fairly extensive histories involved as well as interconnectedness of the world today.

Also it is notable that FIFA is at least the governing body of international football. The NHL is just a domestic league. If the IIHF came out with a new best on best event that put the Olympics aside, it's a bit different than the hollow NHL invitationals that are easier to sniff out as cash grabs.
 
Russian NHL players are far superior to Finland NHL players in 2024-25. Not sure why referring to very old results for that purpose. I don't think Teemu Selanne is coming out of retirement. Obviously anything can happen in a best of one, with over-reliance on top players and then introduce system play, etc.

Not sure why people always try and use selective or manipulative language to downplay the difference in quality of Forwards. Kucherov, Panarin and Kaprizov being "wingers" instead of "centers' doesn't mean that they aren't absolutely capable of driving play.

Finland essentially has one very good line worth of forwards, squeeze hard enough and get two lines with favorable assumptions of what you're going to get out of a certain guys, and then it drops off rather quick.

This is each country's Skaters sorted by scoring rank for 2024-25 season.

3 vs. 9
24 vs. 36
29 vs. 42
34 vs. 94
68 vs. 108
92 vs. 115
107 vs. 138
113 vs. 154
117 vs. 197
121 vs. 200
130 vs. 221
134 vs. 227
136 vs. 307
150 vs. 313
172 vs. 315
218 vs. 323
220 vs. 350
231 vs. 355
256 vs. 383
292 vs. 449
302 vs. 456
312 vs. 458
339 vs. 477
361 vs. 497
364 vs. 531
379 vs. 533
386 vs. 554
394 vs. 589
438 vs. 614
462 vs. 629
465 vs. 635
467 vs. 658
473
484
507
523
553
556
621
625
641
Have to disagree with "far superior", maybe to a fantasy hockey enthusiast. Hockey is way more than pure scoring. Finland's forwards are so clearly better defensively overall that it absolutely matters. If Panarin was matched against Barkov every night, he wouldn't be scoring as much. Centers being important is not manipulative language, they have a bigger role in overall defensive and possession, starting from the faceoff dot. Finland's forward group doesn't drop that heavily after the first line, they have solid players for multiple lines. Having multiple lines of just scoring wingers doesn't always pan out as great as one might think, because not all of them will get the minutes and roles they are used to. The depth of defense is a far bigger problem for Finland, the forward group has a solid foundation.

Btw, during those "very old results" Russia also always had more pure point scorers in the NHL than Finland.
 
Have to disagree with "far superior", maybe to a fantasy hockey enthusiast. Hockey is way more than pure scoring. Finland's forwards are so clearly better defensively overall that it absolutely matters. If Panarin was matched against Barkov every night, he wouldn't be scoring as much. Centers being important is not manipulative language, they have a bigger role in overall defensive and possession, starting from the faceoff dot. Finland's forward group doesn't drop that heavily after the first line, they have solid players for multiple lines. The depth of defense is a far bigger problem.

Btw, during those "very old results" Russia also always had more pure point scorers in the NHL than Finland.
Nah you’re basically just talking about Barkov. He can’t play a full 60 minutes. Finland doesn’t have a lot of depth.

Indeed hockey is more than just scoring. The Russian goaltending is much better than Finnish goaltending. The goalie Finland will use at 4 nations is doing his best accidental tank with a -4.4 goals saved above average and -3.5 goals saved above expected. Their other options if he falters aren’t exactly exciting.

But yes keep bringing up results from an era that has come and gone for your evidence.
 
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Nah you’re basically just talking about Barkov. He can’t play a full 60 minutes. Finland doesn’t have a lot of depth.
I'm absolutely not talking about just Barkov. Do I really have to give an in depth lecture about the defensive game of Finland's forwards? I guess so...

Aho is a fantastic two way player and a huge threat on the PK. Lehkonen is a clutch all around player capable of playing on any line. Lundell is basically a mini-Barkov with a very similar playstyle and strengths, but obviously not as great yet. Granlund is also solid defensively and always seems to have an extra step playing for Finland. Armia the one-man army is a penalty kill specialist, and Kakko has also been solid defensively even when he was not scoring as much in the Rangers.

It would honestly be easier to list the forwards who are NOT great defensively: Rantanen and Laine.

If Finland finds itself lacking in this tournament, it's likely because of lack of defensive depth or coaching, not the all around game of their forward group.
 
I'm absolutely not talking about just Barkov. Do I really have to give an in depth lecture about the defensive game of Finland's forwards? I guess so...

Aho is a fantastic two way player and a huge threat on the PK. Lehkonen is a clutch all around player capable of playing on any line. Lundell is basically a mini-Barkov with a very similar playstyle and strengths, but obviously not as great yet. Granlund is also solid defensively and always seems to have an extra step playing for Finland. Armia the one-man army is a penalty kill specialist, and Kakko has also been solid defensively even when he was not scoring as much in the Rangers.

It would honestly be easier to list the forwards who are NOT great defensively: Rantanen and Laine.

If Finland finds itself lacking in this tournament, it's likely because of lack of defensive depth or coaching, not the all around game of their forward group.
Alright, if we're gonna hype up real life NHL third liners I think we're just making my point. Guys like Lehkonen, Lundell, Armia, Granlund, Kakko, Teravainen, Laine are wildly behind the equivalent players for the other notable countries in a best on best setting.

Finland has Barkov who is great, Rantanen who is great and Aho who is very good. After that, it drops off rather quickly and thus they'll basically have rely heavily on one scoring line and then trying to muck it up with the rest that just prays the goaltending can hold it together. Similar story on defense, if Heiskanen can play a full 60, great (well as is, he won't play at all) and then after that, again, just try and survive shifts and move on.
 
Agree, that is the same comparison I use. It's worthwhile to win, yes, just as the Challenge Cup was or Rendez-vous 87. Even the Summit Series in 1972 or 1974. Not quite the same as the 2026 Olympics coming up, though. Assuming the NHL doesn't f*** it up.

Russia won't be there in 2026. So there's that.
 

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