Is 4 Nations a “Best on Best”?

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Have to imagine the nations excluded build a formidable roster.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Russia can't participate, they are too busy invading another country, the Czechs are irrelevant nowadays at the NHL level, and who cares if Draisaitl is not there. There is only 7 Germans in the NHL...

Russia can't, Russians can. Anyway, Kucherov and Ovechkin certainly aren't invading Ukraine. One guy is on pace to lead the league in scoring for the second consecutive season and third time overall, while the other is going to break a record held by Gretzky...

 

[Albatros]

The best Finns are in the NHL. Why would the other Finns want to play in inferior leagues like KHL, Liiga or SHL if they would be good enough for the NHL.

Gee, why might some Finns prefer to live in Finland over the US?

 

[dirtydanglez]

what would a world team look like assuming you couldn't use any player from canada, us, finland, sweden, and russia.

 

[HockeyVirus]

My answer depends on how the players / team I am invested in do. If they lose this tournament is a joke. If they win it is valid and worth something

 

[Czechboy]

Russia can't participate, they are too busy invading another country, the Czechs are irrelevant nowadays at the NHL level, and who cares if Draisaitl is not there. There is only 7 Germans in the NHL...

We have two top 10 scorers right now in pasta and n case. At the mid season rankings.. we also have 2 goalies in top 5 goalie talks (dostal and vej). While this is communist strong and there was definitely a decline but we are also the defending world champs and just eliminated Canada twice in a row at the world Juniors. Irrelevant is not being used correctly here.

 

[trader997]

Gee, why might some Finns prefer to live in Finland over the US?

Gee, i wonder who would choose to play for 300k/usd with a Liiga team if you are good enough to play in the NHL and make the average 2M$/year nhlers make.

 

[Czechboy]

want to play in inferior leagues like KHL, Liiga or SHL if

Welcome to the international forum which is heavily used by European users who don't enjoy having their leagues called inferior.

 

[trader997]

We have two top 10 scorers right now in pasta and n case. At the mid season rankings.. we also have 2 goalies in top 5 goalie talks (dostal and vej). While this is communist strong and there was definitely a decline but we are also the defending world champs and just eliminated Canada twice in a row at the world Juniors. Irrelevant is not being used correctly here.

Irrelevant at NHL levels i said. You guys have 3 great players in Pasta, Necas and Hertl and a few goalies, Dobes is going to be great. But that's it.

Are you joking about the world Juniors? Serious question since our 2 best players for this tournament, were not available and playing in the NHL.

 

[overlords]

Gee, why might some Finns prefer to live in Finland over the US?

Allergic to the sun?

 

[Albatros]

Gee, i wonder who would choose to play for 300k/usd with a Liiga team if you are good enough to play in the NHL and make the average 2M$/year nhlers make.

...which means a lot of NHLers make substantially less than 2 million. Then you get to think long and hard about whether the extra coin, if any, is worth to you more than spending time with your loved ones, sending your kids to school, that sort of things.

 

[DamonDRW]

depends who is going to win. if it is Canada then "this is the last best on best tournament where we proved and bla-bla-bla".

if not, then "only Olympics count".

 

[Appleyard]

The best Finns are in the NHL. Why would the other Finns want to play in inferior leagues like KHL, Liiga or SHL if they would be good enough for the NHL.

A multitude of reasons.

A. NHL teams have guys on contract at times effectively for "futures", guys who have not fully developed but they hope might be more than a 3rd pairing or bottom six guy some day. Often when these guys hit mid-20s? They end up back in Europe... despite being better at 25-29 in prime than were in NHL at 21-24.

B. Some players who could be depth NHLers (and get offered a contract as such) would rather be home earning 300,000-500,000 a year than a 900k NHL contract where they might get sent to the AHL. Heck, I know of some players who got offered more to stay in NHL and went back or stayed home because of family reasons.

C. Some young guys who will be in the NHL soon are still playing in Europe and might already be better than depth guys.

D. Some guys who are more talented might be seen as NHL "tweeners" even if capable of say 40 points or so talent wise... but are perceived as unfit for an NHL bottom six. Whereas a national team generally pick less for role and more to have as much scoring talent as possible and fit in who PKs etc after.

Hence why the last "best on best" tournament that Finland played in:

They had ELEVEN of their 25 man roster playing in Europe. (they had 23 players who played in the NHL that year... and tonnes more in the AHL... but only 14 were decided to be good enough for the 25 man roster)

At the last 2 World Championships Olli Maatta was there... he was not the #1, nope... Mikko Lehtonen was, who plays in Switzerland. And Oliwer Kaski, who plays in Sweden, played over him too. Rasmus Rissanen had similar ice time...

The Finns had multiple NHL contracted fwds also playing behind guys who play in Europe!

The best ~12 Finns in the world are all in the NHL... but of the top 25 or so? Well, maybe more like 16-17 are.


The NHL is the best league in the world. But it does not have a monopoly on all the best players! It is naive to think so.

 

[pld459666]

A limited yes.

 

[Appleyard]

We have two top 10 scorers right now in pasta and n case. At the mid season rankings.. we also have 2 goalies in top 5 goalie talks (dostal and vej). While this is communist strong and there was definitely a decline but we are also the defending world champs and just eliminated Canada twice in a row at the world Juniors. Irrelevant is not being used correctly here.

Only reason Czechia are not there is it would highlight that a tournament where only NHL contracted players are allowed is not a true best on best...

since while the Czechs "could" construct a roster with just NHL contracted guys?

Their best team would be half guys playing in Europe. (who are better than some of the NHL contracted guys)

 

[KCC]

No, it's just a weak money grabbing idea by the league that no one cares about anymore. The only tournament that truly matters is the Olympics. And every single player would admit that to you behind close doors. In public though they have to push it like it means something.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I am looking at it as a warmup for the Olympics next year. Will absolutely watch it, not nearly as important as next years tournament.

 

[JianYang]

It's the closest thing we have to a best on best right now but its too exclusive to be called that.

Even the Olympics might not be a legitimate best on best the way things are going.

 

[Czechboy]

Only reason Czechia are not there is it would highlight that a tournament where only NHL contracted players are allowed is not a true best on best...

since while the Czechs "could" construct a roster with just NHL contracted guys?

Their best team would be half guys playing in Europe. (who are better than some of the NHL contracted guys)

That's the funny thing.. I'm about to write an article on a potential Czech NHL team... and it would be a good team but I could easily replace a few NHL guys with Euro's and we are better... Vets like Cervenka, Sedlak, O. Kase and some busts like Zadina, Zboril and Hajek would improve us. A guy like Kempny might make it too as he has a tonne of international experience.

But my issue is that we have close to 20 years of best on bests at the Olympics (1998 to 2014)... no complaints and done right!

Every single time we get certain posters saying Canada will crush every one and US will crush everyone... they could send B teams!

The realty is that it doesn't always happen.

Finns won the most medals in those Olympics
Canada didn't medal TWICE
US never got a gold
Sweden and Czechs did get Golds
Switzerland and Latvia took those dream Canadian teams to the absolute brink!

I guess I just hate this AINEC crap.lol Last world cup Team Europe made the finals with Ralph Krueger as the coach. Czechs beat the USA in 2016 too and our team was not the best on paper.

1998 - Czechs, Russia Finland
2002 - Canada, US, Russia
2006 - Sweden, Finland, Czechs
2010 - Canada, US, Finland
2014 - Canada, Sweden, Finland

5 tourneys
Canada 3G (most golds)
Russia 1S, 1B
Sweden 1G, 1S
Finland 1S, 3B (most medals)
Czechs 1G, 1B

My point? It's a lot closer than random NHL fans coming by and letting us know we all suck.lol

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

When the leading goal scorer in the NHL isn't allowed to play in the tournament, no it's not best on best.

(and obviously that's just one example)

 

[Appleyard]

That's the funny thing.. I'm about to write an article on a potential Czech NHL team... and it would be a good team but I could easily replace a few NHL guys with Euro's and we are better... Vets like Cervenka, Sedlak, O. Kase and some busts like Zadina, Zboril and Hajek would improve us. A guy like Kempny might make it too as he has a tonne of international experience.

But my issue is that we have close to 20 years of best on bests at the Olympics (1998 to 2014)... no complaints and done right!

Every single time we get certain posters saying Canada will crush every one and US will crush everyone... they could send B teams!

The realty is that it doesn't always happen.

Finns won the most medals in those Olympics
Canada didn't medal TWICE
US never got a gold
Sweden and Czechs did get Golds
Switzerland and Latvia took those dream Canadian teams to the absolute brink!

I guess I just hate this AINEC crap.lol Last world cup Team Europe made the finals with Ralph Krueger as the coach. Czechs beat the USA in 2016 too and our team was not the best on paper.

1998 - Czechs, Russia Finland
2002 - Canada, US, Russia
2006 - Sweden, Finland, Czechs
2010 - Canada, US, Finland
2014 - Canada, Sweden, Finland

5 tourneys
Canada 3G (most golds)
Russia 1S, 1B
Sweden 1G, 1S
Finland 1S, 3B (most medals)
Czechs 1G, 1B

My point? It's a lot closer than random NHL fans coming by and letting us know we all suck.lol

Yep... heck, David Tomasek and Dominik Kubalik too! More "talented" than quite a few of the NHL contracted guys.

 

[JianYang]

That's the funny thing.. I'm about to write an article on a potential Czech NHL team... and it would be a good team but I could easily replace a few NHL guys with Euro's and we are better... Vets like Cervenka, Sedlak, O. Kase and some busts like Zadina, Zboril and Hajek would improve us. A guy like Kempny might make it too as he has a tonne of international experience.

But my issue is that we have close to 20 years of best on bests at the Olympics (1998 to 2014)... no complaints and done right!

Every single time we get certain posters saying Canada will crush every one and US will crush everyone... they could send B teams!

The realty is that it doesn't always happen.

Finns won the most medals in those Olympics
Canada didn't medal TWICE
US never got a gold
Sweden and Czechs did get Golds
Switzerland and Latvia took those dream Canadian teams to the absolute brink!

I guess I just hate this AINEC crap.lol Last world cup Team Europe made the finals with Ralph Krueger as the coach. Czechs beat the USA in 2016 too and our team was not the best on paper.

1998 - Czechs, Russia Finland
2002 - Canada, US, Russia
2006 - Sweden, Finland, Czechs
2010 - Canada, US, Finland
2014 - Canada, Sweden, Finland

5 tourneys
Canada 3G (most golds)
Russia 1S, 1B
Sweden 1G, 1S
Finland 1S, 3B (most medals)
Czechs 1G, 1B

My point? It's a lot closer than random NHL fans coming by and letting us know we all suck.lol

It's one of the things I find captivating especially in hockey and soccer.

On a given day, Belarus can score off the goalie's head against Sweden in hockey. We saw in 2014 what a hot goalie in Latvia was doing against Canada.

We recently saw Saudi Arabia beat the best team in the world during the last world cup football.

Taking those elements away makes me think we are missing out on certain fan experiences even if those said teams likely won't medal.

I will miss Russia, I will miss the czechs and the other traditional hockey nations, and I will miss some of those those peripheral hockey nations too.

Fans are quick to dismiss the randomness that can occur in these sports particularly in one game take all circumstances.

 

[WarriorofTime]

A multitude of reasons.

A. NHL teams have guys on contract at times effectively for "futures", guys who have not fully developed but they hope might be more than a 3rd pairing or bottom six guy some day. Often when these guys hit mid-20s? They end up back in Europe... despite being better at 25-29 in prime than were in NHL at 21-24.

B. Some players who could be depth NHLers (and get offered a contract as such) would rather be home earning 300,000-500,000 a year than a 900k NHL contract where they might get sent to the AHL. Heck, I know of some players who got offered more to stay in NHL and went back or stayed home because of family reasons.

C. Some young guys who will be in the NHL soon are still playing in Europe and might already be better than depth guys.

D. Some guys who are more talented might be seen as NHL "tweeners" even if capable of say 40 points or so talent wise... but are perceived as unfit for an NHL bottom six. Whereas a national team generally pick less for role and more to have as much scoring talent as possible and fit in who PKs etc after.

Hence why the last "best on best" tournament that Finland played in:

They had ELEVEN of their 25 man roster playing in Europe. (they had 23 players who played in the NHL that year... and tonnes more in the AHL... but only 14 were decided to be good enough for the 25 man roster)

At the last 2 World Championships Olli Maatta was there... he was not the #1, nope... Mikko Lehtonen was, who plays in Switzerland. And Oliwer Kaski, who plays in Sweden, played over him too. Rasmus Rissanen had similar ice time...

The Finns had multiple NHL contracted fwds also playing behind guys who play in Europe!

The best ~12 Finns in the world are all in the NHL... but of the top 25 or so? Well, maybe more like 16-17 are.


The NHL is the best league in the world. But it does not have a monopoly on all the best players! It is naive to think so.

People really underrate how many guys are hanging around the fringes of nhl rosters and how disproportionately North American this is. Not as many European guys are sticking around on 2-way deals, signed as veteran 13th forwards, being put on the waiver wire and sent down to the AHL in the hopes that an opportunity opens up now or down the road. This really skews the nationality totals. Fringe European guys just don’t hang around as often if they don’t have a more guaranteed role firmly established by the end of their ELC. Add in that nhl isn’t an open tryout every year. Teams aren’t necessarily hunting for 27 year olds that did well in Europe and are prioritizing their own internally developing young guys. An early bloomer may get a good offer after an ELC stick around and then stay even beyond that as a depth guy. A late bloomer may go home early and then just isn’t part of the nhl circle at that point and not come back because they’re not being looked at.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

nope and I sadly have zero interest in this 4 Nations thing, only 4 teams is kinda weak, even Olympics is hard to care about, invite Russia back

 

[ORRFForever]

That might make it a more exciting tournament but what does the possibility of an upset have to do with best on best?

There has to be a "competition" where something like an upset could happen.