Interesting Info: Part XV (All Jackets-related "tidbits" in here)

[db2011]

It is simply a numbers game for me regarding what players will be sticking around. We have four above average forward prospects on the roster projected to be second line + players on entry level deals. They are probably better ATM than most of our fourth line, plus they are cost controlled. Replacing guys like a Tropp with a better player at half the salary is just common sense, ditto the defensive side with Heatherington and Collins projecting as middle pairing guys.

As to the "whitewashing" of Jarmo and the Horton situation I think there are a lot of factors. First, I think that he has bought him a lot of leash with his drafting of the 2013 and 2014 classes, drafting is the most important part of being a GM and Jarmo is one of the best in the league. Second, the contract mistake was a freak accident which buys some sympathy, an unknown and unrelated condition appearing before they could insure him as they intended to do is an "act of God" more or less. Did Jao screw up by not paying the the extra to insure him? Yes, but at the same time the reasoning is clear and relatively sound provided to did not know the future. Finally, I think the "pass" he gets is also somewhat a reaction to the hyperbolic minority of posters who seem intent on telling us that the FO is incompetent all while these are the best three years the franchise has had (even when factoring in this years injury disaster of a campaign).

He's doing a lot with inherited players, which isn't hyperbole. His FA signings have picked up but are still overall lukewarm. His draft was great and I'm with you on that. I don't think he's the worst GM, but I'm not giving him credit for all of the way the team's been playing.

But this has gone off topic, sorry.

I'm interested to see Clarkson next year. I feel he will be better than his Toronto self.

 

[EspenK]

I thought they couldn't insure him because he was already injured with the shoulder thing before he signed here? Preexisting condition?

That could very well be the case. We have never received the full story and probably never will. I am assuming they aren't complete idiots and that there was no way to insure his contract. If there was and they didn't then I'd reverse my opinion and put them in the beyond stupid category.

 

[major major]

I thought they couldn't insure him because he was already injured with the shoulder thing before he signed here? Preexisting condition?

That was why they couldn't insure him in year 1. But I think they had a window to insure him a year ago in the summer and missed it. And they were planning on insuring him eventually. I definitely read all of this somewhere, Porty?

 

[cbjgirl]

My understanding was they were going to insure Horton once the window opened in the summer, however, he managed to get hurt before that window was open and therefore became uninsurable again.

 

[Cash for Nash]

He's doing a lot with inherited players, which isn't hyperbole. His FA signings have picked up but are still overall lukewarm. His draft was great and I'm with you on that. I don't think he's the worst GM, but I'm not giving him credit for all of the way the team's been playing.

But this has gone off topic, sorry.

I'm interested to see Clarkson next year. I feel he will be better than his Toronto self.

Question for anybody. How regarded was Clarkson prior to his breakout contract year? He had a huge production spike (goals) that one year but in the years prior how highly was he thought of as a player? I admittedly don't know much about him.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Question for anybody. How regarded was Clarkson prior to his breakout contract year? He had a huge production spike (goals) that one year but in the years prior how highly was he thought of as a player? I admittedly don't know much about him.

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2013/5/7/4307966/real-david-clarkson-devils-free-agency-2013

Interesting article about him. Seems to have a pretty good perspective on the upside/downside of signing him as a free agent.

Note: This article was written prior to Clarkson signing with Toronto.

 

[DarkandStormy]

My understanding was they were going to insure Horton once the window opened in the summer, however, he managed to get hurt before that window was open and therefore became uninsurable again.

Yes...well not all of him. Just his head (concussions), shoulder (surgery), groin (surgery?), and back. So they could have insured um...whatever was left, but since his back forced him to retire, there was no point.

They could have elected coverage in Year 1 and it would have covered his back, but at the time it was the shoulder that was keeping him out and there was little to no chance he was going to come back and then miss enough games from something other than his shoulder to warrant the salary reimbursement.

 

[We Want Ten]

I imagine they're going to dance with whoever brought them and/or be strategic about who they add. I don't get the doomsday slant.



I can't help but read the above as if it were said by Stephen A. Smith. What a load of hyperbolic crap this is. Clarkson's contract sucks, for sure, but the worst in pro sports? How do you even rank it? I guess I can see the angle if you judge him only by what happened in Toronto, but IMO, he's a better player than that and we are going to see it. Sometimes a player just doesn't fit and IMO, he fits better here. I'm at least waiting to see him play out a season before I make any judgements.

Please tell me how else to judge a guy who signed for 7x5.25. I mean I hate to be overly hyperbolic when reviewing a guys stats

Edit: Josh Hamilton's contract is worse. So... worse contract in Hockey.

If you think it was a simple yes/no proposition, you're really out of the loop. I'm not saying the end result was good, wise or whatever, but there were a lot more factors than simply choosing to get it or not get it.

Yeah he had pre-existing conditions and they could not fully insure him when he signed. DON'T SIGN THE GUY IF YOU CAN'T GET COVERAGE. Its not that hard. Totally an amateur move by the FO and those who just shrug their shoulders and go, "eh, atleast we got someone who can play", yes, for the next 5 years we are paying a guy who aspires for 40 points and who statistically speaking makes his on ice teammates worse. We will pine for the days of Boll at 1.7 mil. We are so stuck with this guy and we will have to eat the weenie to ever move him. This one issue has sent us spiraling off in a whole new direction. Its similar to Back to the Future 2 plot.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Please tell me how else to judge a guy who signed for 7x5.25. I mean I hate to be overly hyperbolic when reviewing a guys stats

Edit: Josh Hamilton's contract is worse. So... worse contract in Hockey.

Hamilton was a 1st overall pick who came back from significant drug problems and played in five All-Star games. He led the league at different points in RBI, batting average, slugging, total bases, and OPS. He won the MVP and ALCS MVP awards, three Silver Sluggers, and Major League Player of the Year. And when he hit free agency, he got a contract that was in line with a player of that caliber and proven track record on the open market.

David Clarkson was undrafted three times, and has career highs of 30 and 17 goals, of 46 and 32 points, and of +3 and +1. When he hit free agency, he got a contract grossly out of skew with his track record. And it was structured in such a way that it was absolutely impossible to get out of if he didn't magically become an All-Star, which he never had been to that point.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Blake Comeau went from 5 goals to 16 after swapping teams. Doubled his points in the process. Derek MacKenzie halved his goal total after the move. Similar thing happened with Ryan Johansen Umberger. Scott Hartnell added eight more to his name.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

]Hamilton was a 1st overall pick who came back from significant drug problems and played in five All-Star games. [/B] He led the league at different points in RBI, batting average, slugging, total bases, and OPS. He won the MVP and ALCS MVP awards, three Silver Sluggers, and Major League Player of the Year. And when he hit free agency, he got a contract that was in line with a player of that caliber and proven track record on the open market.

David Clarkson was undrafted three times, and has career highs of 30 and 17 goals, of 46 and 32 points, and of +3 and +1. When he hit free agency, he got a contract grossly out of skew with his track record. And it was structured in such a way that it was absolutely impossible to get out of if he didn't magically become an All-Star, which he never had been to that point.

There were whispers about Hamilton having drug/booze issues a few years ago. While I agree that his contract was in line with others in terms of the numbers he had produced, the risk involved with signing a guy for $125 million who had missed 3 or 4 years due to substance issues was quite substantial.

The Angles rolled the dice on a drug addict who had experienced a few relapses and came up snake eyes. It's an unfortunate truth, but long term recovery from heroin addiction isn't very common. Given that Hamilton had already confessed to various kinds of relapses prior to the Angles signing him, I'd categorize his contract as a very poor one given the obvious risks involved.

At the least, Hamilton's contract should have been specifically insured against substance relapse (if possible). Perhaps the Angles consulted the CBJ on that possibility

 

[SuperGenius]

We know who it's going to be.

Interview with Davidson:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus...ts-john-davidson-on-the-cost-of-injuries.html

 

[Nanabijou]

Interview with Davidson:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus...ts-john-davidson-on-the-cost-of-injuries.html

"He popped".

All signs definitely pointing to Foligno. I have no issue with that.

 

[CBJx614]

Interview with Davidson:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus...ts-john-davidson-on-the-cost-of-injuries.html

It’s a good thing happening here. In exit meetings (with players) when we finished the season, they all wanted to stay. Not just wanted, really wanted, to stay.

This stuck out to me. Players talk to each other amongst the league and I think this helps attract other big name or sturdy FAs.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Yes...well not all of him. Just his head (concussions), shoulder (surgery), groin (surgery?), and back. So they could have insured um...whatever was left, but since his back forced him to retire, there was no point.

They could have elected coverage in Year 1 and it would have covered his back, but at the time it was the shoulder that was keeping him out and there was little to no chance he was going to come back and then miss enough games from something other than his shoulder to warrant the salary reimbursement.

You insure what you can't afford to lose. That's the reason why most of us buy insurance on homes, cars, etc.

The CBJ chose not to insure Horton (as you mentioned their would hae been exclusions), then when he got hurt they figured out they couldn't afford to pay him. No matter how you slice it, it was a bad decision by the CBJ. It was made worse by having $5.5M now tied up on a 4th line forward since it's unlikely the CBJ will spend $5M over the Cap, much less spending to the cap.

 

[DarkandStormy]

You insure what you can't afford to lose. That's the reason why most of us buy insurance on homes, cars, etc.

The CBJ chose not to insure Horton (as you mentioned their would hae been exclusions), then when he got hurt they figured out they couldn't afford to pay him. No matter how you slice it, it was a bad decision by the CBJ. It was made worse by having $5.5M now tied up on a 4th line forward since it's unlikely the CBJ will spend $5M over the Cap, much less spending to the cap.

Oh I agree, terrible choice offering an injury-prone player a 7 year deal knowing insurance wasn't viable in Year 1 (which then, as we saw, put Years 2-7 in jeopardy). They could have used insurance on him on Year 1, losing out on at least 2-3 pre-existing conditions AND wouldn't have gotten any reimbursement in Year 1 regardless of what kept him out (number of games missed NOT related to the back threshold). So they insured player X instead for that season.

 

[EspenK]

I think we need a thread. I will happily post my redundant draft views there and should the need arise my well played losses theme next year. In the meantime this insurance nonsense needs to go there.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

I think we need a thread. I will happily post my redundant draft views there and should the need arise my well played losses theme next year. In the meantime this insurance nonsense needs to go there.

....

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Swiss Luzerner Zeitung had an interview with blue socks wearing pioneer Jarmo Kekäläinen during the latest U-18 WJC.

http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/sport/eishockey/weltmeisterschaft/Ansichten-eines-NHL-Pioniers;art2060,522007

Highlight through Google Translate:

In the NHL analytical statistics to gain in influence, it is now recognized all measured and. How important are the statistics Corsi and Fenwick for you?

Kekäläinen: "Statistics are an important tool, but they do not always tell the whole truth. I am firmly convinced that the instincts of a player with the most important in the evaluation of excellent performance are. Instincts can not always be measured in numbers."

 

[Nanabijou]

Swiss Luzerner Zeitung had an interview with blue socks wearing pioneer Jarmo Kekäläinen during the latest U-18 WJC.

http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/sport/eishockey/weltmeisterschaft/Ansichten-eines-NHL-Pioniers;art2060,522007

Highlight through Google Translate:

In the NHL analytical statistics to gain in influence, it is now recognized all measured and. How important are the statistics Corsi and Fenwick for you?

Kekäläinen: "Statistics are an important tool, but they do not always tell the whole truth. I am firmly convinced that the instincts of a player with the most important in the evaluation of excellent performance are. Instincts can not always be measured in numbers."

I agree with Jarmo on this.

 

[Light the Lamp]

Swiss Luzerner Zeitung had an interview with blue socks wearing pioneer Jarmo Kekäläinen during the latest U-18 WJC.

http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/sport/eishockey/weltmeisterschaft/Ansichten-eines-NHL-Pioniers;art2060,522007

Highlight through Google Translate:

In the NHL analytical statistics to gain in influence, it is now recognized all measured and. How important are the statistics Corsi and Fenwick for you?

Kekäläinen: "Statistics are an important tool, but they do not always tell the whole truth. I am firmly convinced that the instincts of a player with the most important in the evaluation of excellent performance are. Instincts can not always be measured in numbers."

Most people who truly understand advanced stats agree that they are not the "tell all" in a player, or game. Advanced stats are simply are a tool to help justify what one may see.

One of the most instinctive player on the CBJ roster is Wennberg. He is very creative and knows where the puck should go before he receives a pass. His stats won't show this and as a result draws lots of negative comments on this board.

 

[EspenK]

One of the most instinctive player on the CBJ roster is Wennberg. He is very creative and knows where the puck should go before he receives a pass. His stats won't show this and as a result draws lots of negative comments on this board.

This person should be pretty good:

I always wonder how people know what goes on in another's mind.

 

[EspenK]

One of the most instinctive player on the CBJ roster is Wennberg. He is very creative and knows where the puck should go before he receives a pass. His stats won't show this and as a result draws lots of negative comments on this board.

This person should be pretty good:

I always wonder how people know what goes on in another's mind.

 

[Light the Lamp]

This person should be pretty good:

I always wonder how people know what goes on in another's mind.

Well, when you watch the games, you can see it. Don't follow the puck, watch where the play should develop. TV does not allow this perspective, but if you watch it live you can see a much better perspective. Wennberg has very good vision and creativity.

 

[major major]

Most people who truly understand advanced stats agree that they are not the "tell all" in a player, or game. Advanced stats are simply are a tool to help justify what one may see.

One of the most instinctive player on the CBJ roster is Wennberg. He is very creative and knows where the puck should go before he receives a pass. His stats won't show this and as a result draws lots of negative comments on this board.

Why wouldn't they? Stats like corsi do a great job as indicators of who can control the puck and pass it. There are some exceptions of course, but I don't see why Wennberg is exceptionally better than the stats indicate.

If you ask me Wennberg looks solid enough when he hangs back and keeps the play in front of him, but he gets lost when he tries to use the full ice, maybe because he's lacking confidence. When Hartnell joined him he told Wennberg to stay back there and Hartnell would take care of the boards, and that worked great.

I can see a lot of Backstrom in Wennberg so I'm very hopeful for him but I also think it's clear that Dano and Hartnell drove the bus this year.