In an Alternate Universe, What If? (Russia)

[Sasha Orlov]

In future years, yes. They wouldn't have been available for this year. If we're doing future years it's a good idea to include Kaprizov. Yurov has been playing center in the KHL and will be joining the Wild roster next season, though I'm not sure how good he'll be in his rookie year. He might not be enough of an upgrade to make the team.

Yeah I know, I’m talking about the future here
Guys like Konyushkov also make it more interesting

 

[Zine]

No, I mean physically run out of the building. They'd have gotten absolutely mashed. We see it every time Canada faces Russia internationally. Massive physical disadvantage on NHL ice dimensions.

Obviously in a one game sample literally anything can happen. But in terms of quality, USA and CAN are still in a tier above Russia, and it's a significant gap.

When exactly? Because no Russian team, on any level, has been physically intimated since maybe the late 2000's. The develop system and coaching has has learned and changed from those times.

Or if it occurred once since then, it certainly isn't a pattern.

 

[Summer Rose]

No, I mean physically run out of the building. They'd have gotten absolutely mashed. We see it every time Canada faces Russia internationally. Massive physical disadvantage on NHL ice dimensions.

Obviously in a one game sample literally anything can happen. But in terms of quality, USA and CAN are still in a tier above Russia, and it's a significant gap.

I disagree. The gap is closer than you’re trying to state in my opinion. Are they both better on paper than Russia? Yes, sure. I don’t disagree there. By how much? You’re saying by a lot, I’m thinking it’s not by as much as you’re stating with such hyperbolic statements. That’s all.

 

[bossram]

When exactly? Because no Russian team, on any level, has been physically intimated since maybe the late 2000's. The develop system and coaching has has learned and changed from those times.

Or if it occurred once since then, it certainly isn't a pattern.

Well, I guess it has been a while. 2016 WCoH CAN-RUS had Canada look vastly superior.

I disagree. The gap is closer than you’re trying to state in my opinion. Are they both better on paper than Russia? Yes, sure. I don’t disagree there. By how much? You’re saying by a lot, I’m thinking it’s not by as much as you’re stating with such hyperbolic statements. That’s all.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. The Russians' center depth is extremely poor for an international best-on-best and they don't have the 1D calibre players CAN and USA have.

In a one game sample, Russia's goalies can absolutely win them the game. But the roster quality isn't close.

 

[Zine]

Well, I guess it has been a while. 2016 WCoH CAN-RUS had Canada look vastly superior.

A 5-3 win is vastly superior? Nonetheless, that game occurred almost a decade ago.
What exactly does it have to do with today's teams?

I mean the Czech Republic defeated the US at 2016 World Cup too. I suppose the same would likely happen today, right?

 

[All Mod Cons]

If we had to stick to it only being 4 Nations, it might make some sense to maybe mingle another nation in.

So, I dunno, just kind of spit balling here, but like maybe do a Canada, Sweden, US/Russia mix and Finland? Or maybe Finland/Czechia?

 

[bossram]

A 5-3 win is vastly superior? Nonetheless, that game occurred almost a decade ago.
What exactly does it have to do with today's teams?

I mean the Czech Republic defeated the US at 2016 World Cup too. I suppose the same would likely happen today, right?

The flow of that game was domination from Canada.

The top-end of that Russian team is also superior to what Russia has available now (there was prime Malkin, prime OV, prime Tarasenko, Datsyuk).

If the USA transposed that same roster to today, yes, they would lose.

 

[notbias]

Their Cs might be the worst in the tournament.

Wingers are probably top 2, maybe the best.

Goaltending is top 2.

Defense might be bottom 2.

I think they would be the 3rd best team.

Malkin dropping off might be the biggest thing that hurts them.

 

[george14]

It’s possible the final would be the same, but Russia would definitely give both Canada and the U.S. a big challenge.

Russia has the best wingers and goalies in the world, and a much improved blue line, only lacking quality centers.

I’m going to need some recent evidence to suggest Russia would be a threat to US or CAN. With NHLers allowed, Russia hasn’t won anything in 10 years. We can name good Russian players but that doesn’t equate to a good showing. In the two biggest recent tournaments they finished 4th (World Cup) and 5th (Olympics). Their last 3 World Championship finishes are 5th, 3rd, and 6th.

 

[JKG33]

You can try and argue that Hellebuyck isn't the best goaltender in the world right now, but just making the statement "Russia has the best goalies in the world" without support is ridiculous.

Hellebuyck isn't even the best goalie on his own country, and in a big game there's 4 Russians I'd take over him

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Hellebuyck isn't even the best goalie on his own country

Do tell.

 

[JKG33]

Russia would've been solidly in 3rd place. Great wingers sure, but you don't win when you're that weak up the middle and on D. Having 4 great goalies is a flex, but only one can play in a game (if you need the 2nd one in a game something has gone wrong) so depth there doesn't really help in a tournament like this.

Their talent could beat Sweden (given how bad Sweden's "elite" centres are) and Finland, but they'd get beat by USA and Canada

Do tell.

Every big game he manages to be the 2nd best goalie on the ice.

 

[koyvoo]

We’re a long ways away from the 1979 challenge cup and 1981 Canada Cup. That was the peak for them.

 

[Summer Rose]

Well, I guess it has been a while. 2016 WCoH CAN-RUS had Canada look vastly superior.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. The Russians' center depth is extremely poor for an international best-on-best and they don't have the 1D calibre players CAN and USA have.

In a one game sample, Russia's goalies can absolutely win them the game. But the roster quality isn't close.

The words you used, "get run out of the building" is a pretty hyperbolic choice in words, if you ask me. I'm arguing that even though they don't stack up on paper to the US or Canada in terms of roster quality, they'd hardly get run out of the building. It's not as if it would be a 10-0 blowout. I think they'd lose more games than they won, on the hypothetical that they played more than one game against each other, but run out of the building? No, no way.

 

[elmaco]

If we had to stick to it only being 4 Nations, it might make some sense to maybe mingle another nation in.

So, I dunno, just kind of spit balling here, but like maybe do a Canada, Sweden, US/Russia mix and Finland? Or maybe Finland/Czechia?

This mixing stuff is dumb and doesn't work, everyone hated the last world cup.

 

[ViD]

The odd game is one thing, but Russia hasn't won a best-on-best tournament since 1981. They're done as a hockey power.

The country that won the latest Olympic gold and silver regardless of participants is hardly not a hockey power

 

[Zine]

The flow of that game was domination from Canada.

The top-end of that Russian team is also superior to what Russia has available now (there was prime Malkin, prime OV, prime Tarasenko, Datsyuk).

If the USA transposed that same roster to today, yes, they would lose.

So what?
On paper the 2006 Team Canada Olympics team was arguably better than today's.... it certainly was depth wise. Yet they were shut out by Russia, who you claim is always physically intimidated by Canada.


Point is - it's beyond stupid to think results of 10+ years ago have any bearing on today's teams, espically in short tournaments where innate talent doesn't always win games. There's so much more to it.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

The country that won the latest Olympic gold and silver regardless of participants is hardly not a hockey power

"regardless of participants" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Switzerland is not a hockey power either, despite their Spengler Cup dominance.

 

[Romang67]

Russia would've been solidly in 3rd place. Great wingers sure, but you don't win when you're that weak up the middle and on D. Having 4 great goalies is a flex, but only one can play in a game (if you need the 2nd one in a game something has gone wrong) so depth there doesn't really help in a tournament like this.

Their talent could beat Sweden (given how bad Sweden's "elite" centres are) and Finland, but they'd get beat by USA and Canada


Every big game he manages to be the 2nd best goalie on the ice.

Did he go 0-3 this tournament?

 

[JKG33]

Did he go 0-3 this tournament?

Round Robin /= playoffs

 

[Romang67]

Round Robin /= playoffs

Oh, we're pretending the round robin in a 3/4 game tournament didn't consist of big games?

As a Swede, I feel much better about Team Sweden's performance all of a sudden. Yes, they lost 2 games and only won once they were eliminated from contention, but at least they didn't lose any big games.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Watching the game with a friend last night, and he asked me a question, which I thought would be fun to be discussed here.

If you included Russia in this tournament as a replacement for Finland (sorry Finland but, ya know), would we still have had this Canada vs. USA final?

This question is for right now, not in the future like next year at the Olympics, and it's complete rosters with everyone healthy.

I think yes, as Canada has the edge up front and on defense, but obviously severely outclassed in net. USA has slightly better forwards, much better D, and goaltending is even for me (remember, only one goalie can play).

Obviously in a one game winner take all, you never know what could happen, but I still think we have the same final.

What say you?

USA has edge as Helly is the best goalie.

 

[Zine]

"regardless of participants" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Switzerland is not a hockey power either, despite their Spengler Cup dominance.

You could say the same for Finland, actually. Right?

 

[JKG33]

Oh, we're pretending the round robin in a 3/4 game tournament didn't consist of big games?

As a Swede, I feel much better about Team Sweden's performance all of a sudden. Yes, they lost 2 games and only won once they were eliminated from contention, but at least they didn't lose any big games.

Hey if your bar is not even making it to the big game, more power to ya

 

[Romang67]

Hey if your bar is not even making it to the big game, more power to ya

So you ARE pretending that, in a 3/4 game tournament, the only big game is the last one?

I see.