In an Alternate Universe, What If? (Russia)

[LPHabsFan]

Watching the game with a friend last night, and he asked me a question, which I thought would be fun to be discussed here.

If you included Russia in this tournament as a replacement for Finland (sorry Finland but, ya know), would we still have had this Canada vs. USA final?

This question is for right now, not in the future like next year at the Olympics, and it's complete rosters with everyone healthy.

I think yes, as Canada has the edge up front and on defense, but obviously severely outclassed in net. USA has slightly better forwards, much better D, and goaltending is even for me (remember, only one goalie can play).

Obviously in a one game winner take all, you never know what could happen, but I still think we have the same final.

What say you?

Click to read more...

 

[ViD]

It’s possible the final would be the same, but Russia would definitely give both Canada and the U.S. a big challenge.

Russia has the best wingers and goalies in the world, and a much improved blue line, only lacking quality centers.

 

[Peiskos]

I don't get the Russia hype, there is an established history of Canada having its way with the Russians at every single level of the game.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Russia has the best wingers and goalies in the world,

You can try and argue that Hellebuyck isn't the best goaltender in the world right now, but just making the statement "Russia has the best goalies in the world" without support is ridiculous.

 

[ShootIt]

Possible, but still voted that the final would of been the same.

I get why Russia was left out, but we missed out on a lot of hockey talent without Russia in the tournament.
Only weakness I see on the Russian squad is center. Malkin is their best one, and honestly I'm not sure who would slot in behind him? Is Kuz still a top 4 Russian center?
Russia has a damn good goalie depth and could get by on the lack of centers if Igor, Vasily, Ilya, or even playoff Bob showed up

 

[ViD]

I don't get the Russia hype, there is an established history of Canada having its way with the Russians at every single level of the game.

Russia beat Canada in 2006 and Russia beat NA stars in 2016

Canada won in 2016 and 2010

It’s not that simple

 

[GMR]

They have great goalie depth but what else do they have that scares opponents?

Yeah, there's skilled wingers but USA/Canada aren't worried. They would always ramp it up physically against Russia. The defense isn't that impressive.

 

[Beau Knows]

The final two teams would probably be the same. Russia is usually quite disappointing in best on best.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

You can try and argue that Hellebuyck isn't the best goaltender in the world right now, but just making the statement "Russia has the best goalies in the world" without support is ridiculous.

Ehh not really, if you look at each country’s top 3 goalies Russia is #1 with Vasi, Sorokin, Shestyorkin and it’s not particularly close. Looking only at the best goalie from each country creates more of an argument sure, but Russia is the standard for goaltending in the world right now.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Ehh not really, if you look at each country’s top 3 goalies Russia is #1 with Vasi, Sorokin, Shestyorkin and it’s not particularly close. Looking only at the best goalie from each country creates more of an argument sure, but Russia is the standard for goaltending in the world right now.

Your strategy will be fantastic once hockey switches to playing with multiple nets on the ice and multiple goaltenders defending those nets.

 

[Summer Rose]

Your strategy will be fantastic once hockey switches to playing with multiple nets on the ice and multiple goaltenders defending those nets.

It also helps in a longer tournament where you can't just ride one goalie for every single game. If that was the poster's point, then I agree with it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

It also helps in a longer tournament where you can't just ride one goalie for every single game. If that was the poster's point, then I agree with it.

Fair, although I'm not sure what length of tournament (among realistic international tournament formats) would do that.

(And specifically here, the thread starter asked about this exact tournament format.)

 

[Oilslick941611]

I dont think anything changes. Russia hasn't been the greatest when it comes to best on best showings in the last 25 years.

 

[Peiskos]

Russia beat Canada in 2006 and Russia beat NA stars in 2016

Canada won in 2016 and 2010

It’s not that simple

Firstly NA Stars wasn't Team Canada, there were Americans on that team, again not Canada.

List of International Tournaments featuring best players, there have been 15 now in history. In brackets is the amount of wins, Canada has now won a staggering 11/15 or 73% of all best vs best competition. No other country has ever won more than 1. This is an extraordinary level of dominance. It very much is that simple.

1. 1972 Summit Series - Canada win (1)
2. 1976 Canada Cup - Canada win (2)
3. 1981 Canada Cup - USSR win (1)
4. 1984 Canada Cup - Canada win (3)
5. 1987 Canada Cup - Canada win (4)
6. 1991 Canada Cup - Canada win (5)
7. 1996 World Cup - USA win (1)
8. 1998 Olympics - Czech win (1)
9. 2002 Olympics - Canada win (6)
10. 2004 World Cup - Canada win (7)
11. 2006 Olympics - Sweden win (1)
12. 2010 Olympics - Canada win (8)
13. 2014 Olympics - Canada win (9)
14. 2016 World Cup - Canada win (10)
15. 2025 4 Nations Cup - Canada win (11)

Russia is not a threat to Canada. Period.

 

[tfwnogf]

Russia would be close to the talent level of USA, if not even better. They have the goaltending, they have the veteran presence (the kind USA didn't have) and deadly players like Kucherov and Kaprizov who are on par with the big boys of Canada. They would at least have a good chance of being in the final. USA should thank their lucky stars Russia wasn't able to be there.

 

[Summer Rose]

Fair, although I'm not sure what length of tournament (among realistic international tournament formats) would do that.

(And specifically here, the thread starter asked about this exact tournament format.)

That's also a fair point. If, hypothetically, Russia had been in this tournament (whether at the expense of Finland or making this a Five Nations Face-off), having an edge on goaltender depth doesn't necessarily help, since they hypothetically could just ride one of Vasilevskiy, Shesterkin, or Sorokin for every single game. Whether they'd be wise to do so or not would be up in the air... but it did work for Canada with playing Binnington every game. They won the whole thing, after all.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Your strategy will be fantastic once hockey switches to playing with multiple nets on the ice and multiple goaltenders defending those nets.

Yeah the goalie depth thing has never made sense. Like you need one goalie to perform. They don’t hand out medals for who has the 5th best goalie.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Yeah the goalie depth thing has never made sense. Like you need one goalie to perform. They don’t hand out medals for who has the 5th best goalie.

As someone who's usually about the fifth-best goalie in my beer league, I would actually welcome this.

 

[ViD]

I dont think anything changes. Russia hasn't been the greatest when it comes to best on best showings in the last 25 years.

You could argue that, but you can say the same thing about the U.S.

Neither Russia nor the U.S. won gold in the best on best tourneys since 1996

 

[Beau Knows]

Yeah the goalie depth thing has never made sense. Like you need one goalie to perform. They don’t hand out medals for who has the 5th best goalie.

I mean in 2010 Canada started Brodeur, you'd think that would be good enough, but they ended up going with Luongo.

Having options is nice.

 

[Summer Rose]

As someone who's usually about the fifth-best goalie in my beer league, I would actually welcome this.

I was my beer league team's backup goalie one season. I skated out and was a decent playmaking defenseman when I wasn't in net though. Was also probably the fifth-best goalie in the league. Where's my medal?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I mean in 2010 Canada started Brodeur, you'd think that would be good enough, but they ended up going with Luongo.

Having options is nice.

Having two good goalies is ideal. If you ever get to the point you are playing a 3rd goalie though? Your tournament has gone sideways.

 

[NyQuil]

Russia would be close to the talent level of USA, if not even better. They have the goaltending, they have the veteran presence (the kind USA didn't have) and deadly players like Kucherov and Kaprizov who are on par with the big boys of Canada. They would at least have a good chance of being in the final. USA should thank their lucky stars Russia wasn't able to be there.

Their D is much weaker and their depth up the middle isn't great.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Their D is much weaker and their depth up the middle isn't great.

Basically this, though a line of Michkov - Demidov - Kaprizov could outscore most of their problems

 

[NyQuil]

Basically this, though a line of Michkov - Demidov - Kaprizov could outscore most of their problems

They've had a lot of firepower over the years but it hasn't really panned out that way for quite some time.