Post-Game Talk: I'm not even mad. Jets lose 4-0 to the mighty Pens

[Tdoe42]

I Love how they Clipped Ron Talking about meeting them in the Easter Conf finals on Sports Center this Morining... Just the way he says it you know Negotiations are underway!

 

[Whileee]

I dont get this
How does some play 25-30 minutes a game, and be out of shape.
He isnt

It's how Buff plays his 24-25 minutes that I am looking at. Top D-men with that much ice time play those 25+ minutes easily without tiring. Buff looks tired at the end of shifts, and tired at the end of games, mustering the occasional burst of energy to make a foray up the ice.

I don't want to go on endlessly about it, but I think that if Buff were a bit lighter and in better shape, he would be absolutely dominant because he could play a high energy game for longer each shift and during the game.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

This statement makes zero sense in a salary cap league.

Perhaps, but to me it shows similar signs of the same pattern. Just my opinion though.

 

[Gnova]

It's not a myth, and I'm not sure how you know that the Jets are okay with his conditioning. I agree that his playstyle is energetic, but only for short spurts, and he shows signs of wearing down Buff needs to be a bit more trim, and to be in better shape. He plays big minutes because every team has to play their best D lots of minutes, but he is always having to pick his spots and he is clearly fully gassed by the end of many shifts. Consider the top D-men in the league who play more than Buff..

Suter, Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Chara, etc. When do you see them gassed at the end of a shift?

I love Buff... I think he's still our most dynamic player. I think he would be a strong contender for the Norris if he was in top shape.

I have heard Noel comment that Buff's conditioning is fine during interviews.
None of the D-men you listed play the same style that Buff does. Instead compare him to some of the top offensive forwards in the league and I see them "gassed" at the end of their shift frequently.

 

[Whileee]

I have heard Noel comment that Buff's conditioning is fine during interviews.
None of the D-men you listed play the same style that Buff does. Instead compare him to some of the top offensive forwards in the league and I see them "gassed" at the end of their shift frequently.

He plays a similar style to Doughty or Karlsson, and they seem like they can play forever at that pace. They both played more than 25 min per game during the playoffs last year. Duncan Keith logged more than 30 minutes a game, and he plays a very active game. I think that Doughty took a big step forward when he became a better-conditioned athlete.

I don't think Noel would ever publicly criticize one of his key veterans.

I think Buff is terrific, but I still think he could be in better condition and more trim, and that would improve his overall game. I know you disagree. No worries.

 

[Jeti]

I think the Jets were left standing around looking for Iginla . Oh well, you don't win all of them. Saturday's game is more important and more winnable.

 

[Ramsalot]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, Buff's a beast either way, but I'm among the minds who can't help but fantasize about how much more he could be if he was merely 10-15 pounds lighter. It's mostly a what if kind of thing IMO.


Also, after thinking about the loss, meh. Jetties played really good for the first half-ish, I can't blame them for being defeated after that. Pens are crazy scary and Iggy wasn't even in, and he's still Iggy and he's gone his whole career without a centre who's on his level, he's going to utterly destroy the eastern conference. At least we don't have to see them again.

 

[ajmidd12]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, Buff's a beast either way, but I'm among the minds who can't help but fantasize about how much more he could be if he was merely 10-15 pounds lighter. It's mostly a what if kind of thing IMO.


Also, after thinking about the loss, meh. Jetties played really good for the first half-ish, I can't blame them for being defeated after that. Pens are crazy scary and Iggy wasn't even in, and he's still Iggy and he's gone his whole career without a centre who's on his level, he's going to utterly destroy the eastern conference. At least we don't have to see them again.

10-15lbs won't make a difference. He's still heavy and has a bigger build than say Evander Kane. Buff get's lazy from time to time, but he also over exerts himself. The icetime he is putting up takes its toll physically.

Buff is in playing condition whether you like it or not.

 

[jetkarma*]

10-15lbs won't make a difference. He's still heavy and has a bigger build than say Evander Kane. Buff get's lazy from time to time, but he also over exerts himself. The icetime he is putting up takes its toll physically.

Buff is in playing condition whether you like it or not.

Ideally 15 pounds would not be the optimum for a weight drop but it would make a significant , tangible difference for production and endurance imo.

If Buff showed up this year 15 pounds lighter we would see a quicker player , one who would not be as gassed as he has been with big minutes or when the grind of the season is happening , as it is now. He came in better shape this year than last , but another step like this would be really positive.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I Love how they Clipped Ron Talking about meeting them in the Easter Conf finals on Sports Center this Morining... Just the way he says it you know Negotiations are underway!

I can see it, but I wonder what we'll get back from Boston for him? Camara?

 

[Duke749]

I'm pretty sure that none of the players actually think it is acceptable to lose 4 - 0 , but at the same time, they do understand that they are clearly overmatched in this case.

Are they capable of beating the Penguins? Sure, but for that to happen, several things must go right and they need to catch a few lucky bounces along with having all 19 players being at their absolute best.

Whether we as fans think it's acceptable because the Carolina game is the one we really need to win has no bearing on the mentality of the JETS players in that locker room.

Exactly. As long as the players have the right mentality it doesn't matter what we think.

So what's your excuse for a team like Pittsburgh getting blown out 4-1 against Carolina, or 4-2 against Winnipeg, or 5-2 against Toronto? Yes these all happened in just over a month ago.

Your logic is flawed. A team cannot win every game, it happens. Our guys had chances (did you actually watch the game?) but couldn't bury them. The proof is in the pudding, look at the comeback against Carolina on Tuesday. Going into an opposing teams building is just as tough as those teams coming here, it isn't easy playing against a team and a crowd.

The team has been playing 100x better than last season, Pavs has been unreal, and our guys are finally gelling under the new system. Again stranger things have happened in the playoffs, like the Kings wiping the floor with everyone after barely squeezing into the playoffs. I have a feeling the Penguins are in for a rude awakening. Especially if they have to play the Rangers in the first round.

Jets vs the Laffs would be epic, just need to control Lupul and we could pull it off.

How is my logic flawed? No, no team can win every game. We all know that. That wasn't what I was saying at all. The players, coaches, and management have to have the mentality that losing 4-0 is not acceptable. They also have to understand that games like that will happen but they have to make sure they learn from it to prevent it down the road. This goes for any contending team and even playoff teams. If they act like "meh, it's the Pens, we never had a chance anyways" they'll never be able to compete with them, now or in the future. You first have to believe you can be a top team before you actually are.

Perhaps, but to me it shows similar signs of the same pattern. Just my opinion though.

Out bidding for UFAs is completely different then trading away players, prospects, and picks for players. And Iginla chose Pittsburgh anyways. Shero was just in the right place at the right time. It's naive to think they're buying anything.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Allowing the first goal is always deflating to an extent, but I don't know if I've seen the Jets look quite as rattled this season as they were by Kunitz's tally. They had done a great job being disciplined in their own end and even creating some chances at the other end, but you could see the wind leave their sails after that goal, almost like a collective "here we go again, floodgates have opened" had set in. That was just an unbelievable job by Crosby and Malkin on the cycle, and a great shot by Kunitz. Pretty hard to defend.

It does appear as though there's some degree of being psyched out before the puck even drops in Pittsburgh, and I do place some of that blame on the coaching staff. I obviously don't know what's being said in the dressing room, but if I were an armchair coach for a day, I would be doing everything possible not to discuss the Pens firepower and how they'll match it, and would instead by getting my troops focused on all the good things they've done on the road, and ultimately focused on playing their game rather than reacting to the Pens game. Just a random thought.

If the Jets can replicate the first 15 minutes of last night and sustain it for an entire game, I think they'll be just fine vs. Carolina.

 

[Romang67]

Allowing the first goal is always deflating to an extent, but I don't know if I've seen the Jets look quite as rattled this season as they were by Kunitz's tally. They had done a great job being disciplined in their own end and even creating some chances at the other end, but you could see the wind leave their sails after that goal, almost like a collective "here we go again, floodgates have opened" had set in. That was just an unbelievable job by Crosby and Malkin on the cycle, and a great shot by Kunitz. Pretty hard to defend.

It does appear as though there's some degree of being psyched out before the puck even drops in Pittsburgh, and I do place some of that blame on the coaching staff. I obviously don't know what's being said in the dressing room, but if I were an armchair coach for a day, I would be doing everything possible not to discuss the Pens firepower and how they'll match it, and would instead by getting my troops focused on all the good things they've done on the road, and ultimately focused on playing their game rather than reacting to the Pens game. Just a random thought.

If the Jets can replicate the first 15 minutes of last night and sustain it for an entire game, I think they'll be just fine vs. Carolina.

What if you were an armchair couch for a day?

Sorry, started drinking.

But I agree about them being rattled after Kunitz's goal. Before that, they still didn't look very good (especially when Clitsome and Meech were on the ice), but after that goal, they just looked like they didn't want to play. Not hitting, not really hustling, no nothing. It was sad to see.

 

[ajmidd12]

How is my logic flawed? No, no team can win every game. We all know that. That wasn't what I was saying at all. The players, coaches, and management have to have the mentality that losing 4-0 is not acceptable. They also have to understand that games like that will happen but they have to make sure they learn from it to prevent it down the road. This goes for any contending team and even playoff teams. If they act like "meh, it's the Pens, we never had a chance anyways" they'll never be able to compete with them, now or in the future. You first have to believe you can be a top team before you actually are.

How did they not believe the had a chance? We have beaten them before we can do it again. Last night they were gassed, it happens, it isn't the end of the world like you think it is. The Jets could go to the cup finals for all we know knocking the Pens out along the way.

Again, stranger things have happened. You act like one loss was the end of the world. They out played us and got the win.

 

[alchemyindex]

I have a slightly different question... How is it that Ladd and Little are +9 and +10 respectively, but Wheeler is a -6? Is it because he and Kane (-2) get those extra shifts with the third and fourth lines? I know plus/minus isn't the be all, end all of stats, but I would have expected him to be more on par with his linemates!

 

[Romang67]

I have a slightly different question... How is it that Ladd and Little are +9 and +10 respectively, but Wheeler is a -6? Is it because he and Kane (-2) get those extra shifts with the third and fourth lines? I know plus/minus isn't the be all, end all of stats, but I would have expected him to be more on par with his linemates!

Wheeler was on a line with Jokinen and Kane for like 10 games, like you probably remember. That line was just BRUTAL when it came to +/-. Since they split that line up, Kane and Wheeler has been pretty good in the +/- department. Atleast I think so.

 

[garret9]

I have a slightly different question... How is it that Ladd and Little are +9 and +10 respectively, but Wheeler is a -6? Is it because he and Kane (-2) get those extra shifts with the third and fourth lines? I know plus/minus isn't the be all, end all of stats, but I would have expected him to be more on par with his linemates!

Remember that stint where Pavelec was playing sub-AHL level and we all started going crazy here...
For some reason almost all those terrible goals were when Wheeler was on the ice. In fact at one point Wheeler had one of the top 5 worst save percentage behind him in the NHL. That was when the Kane-Jokinen-Wheeler line was split up. They were heavily out chancing teams but Noel split them up due to a bad +/-. Since then Jokinen hasn't out chanced an AHL 4th line.

 

[ps241]

Remember that stint where Pavelec was playing sub-AHL level and we all started going crazy here...
For some reason almost all those terrible goals were when Wheeler was on the ice. In fact at one point Wheeler had one of the top 5 worst save percentage behind him in the NHL. That was when the Kane-Jokinen-Wheeler line was split up. They were heavily out chancing teams but Noel split them up due to a bad +/-. Since then Jokinen hasn't out chanced an AHL 4th line.

Yes I believe you had calculated that Pavs save % was .743 when Wheeler was on the ice at one point in the season. You had posted it in response to Wheeler taking a beating for being -7.