Player Discussion Ilya Mikheyev

[VanJack]

mistake signing from day 1. now its up to mgmnt to rectify their mistake and find a taker for his contract.

Allvin and the Canuck front office haven't make a lot of mistakes so far, but clearly Mikheyev was one of them.

I doubt another 'buy-out' is in the cards......so it's either retain salary in a trade or take on another under-performing contract.

The best solution might be to identify a d-man with an equally bad contract--and try to arrange a one-for-one swap. At least then, the Canucks would be adding some depth at a position where they're still lacking.

 

[mossey3535]

I do regret thinking (and saying) that he has a higher ceiling than he showed in Toronto. It's clear that it's not a hell of a lot higher when he's healthy and his floor is basically in the basement when he isn't healthy.

Maybe not a mistake to sign him but probably a mistake to delay his surgery.

The best we can hope for now is that he's following the two-year plan to ACL recovery. Even then I don't think he's close to Garland but at least he'll be playing somewhat close to his contract.

 

[F A N]

My interpretation of the comment was him taking a bit of heat off of Mikheyev because of a tough year coming back from the ACL rehab. I doubt he's here next year given how ruthless they need to be to continue being a contender.

I get that Allvin was trying to defend him but it kind of came out wrong and didn’t make much sense to me. A “middle 6 player” presumably plays on the 2nd and 3rd lines whereas a top 6 player plays on the top 2 lines. Mik playing alongside Petey fits the middle 6 winger description no? He is still expected to contribute offensively especially given his salary.

 

[God]

I get that Allvin was trying to defend him but I kind of came out wrong and didn’t make much sense to me. A “middle 6 player” presumably plays on the 2nd and 3rd lines whereas a top 6 player plays on the top 2 lines. Mik playing alongside Petey fits the middle 6 winger description no? He is still expected to contribute offensively especially given his salary.

That's probably just semantics and up to whoever's speaking. I would probably call someone like Jannik Hansen a middle 6 player but he was regularly playing up with the Sedins later in his Canuck career. And Garland plays top 6 minutes but on paper he's a 3rd liner.

And frankly, Mikheyev was definitely a top 6 player last year and worth the contract. Not sure it makes much sense to judge the contract based on this year's results when ACL injuries cannot be predicted.

 

[F A N]

That's probably just semantics and up to whoever's speaking. I would probably call someone like Jannik Hansen a middle 6 player but he was regularly playing up with the Sedins later in his Canuck career. And Garland plays top 6 minutes but on paper he's a 3rd liner.

Is it semantics though? When we signed Mik, Allvin said, "Ilya will provide a lot of value in our middle six." In response to be pretty worded question about Mik's production in the last 60 games especially in light of him playing every game and spending substantial time in the top 6 , Allvin said along the lines of nobody expected Mik to be a top 6 player.

I think we can all agree that Hansen was a middle 6 winger and he was paid like one. Garland was acquired to be a top 6 player, is producing like a top 6 forward, and paid like one. It's his lack of fit in the top 6 that makes it even a question whether he is a top 6 forward. It would obviously be silly to call Kessel a 3rd line or middle 6 winger when he was winning Cups with the Penguins.

And frankly, Mikheyev was definitely a top 6 player last year and worth the contract. Not sure it makes much sense to judge the contract based on this year's results when ACL injuries cannot be predicted.

The issue is that Mik didn't have a history of being a top 6 player. So to me it's a bit concerning when the GM is saying he wasn't expected to be a top 6 player but a middle 6 guy because that's a huge contract for middle 6 winger whose career high is 32 points.

 

[God]

Is it semantics though? When we signed Mik, Allvin said, "Ilya will provide a lot of value in our middle six." In response to be pretty worded question about Mik's production in the last 60 games especially in light of him playing every game and spending substantial time in the top 6 , Allvin said along the lines of nobody expected Mik to be a top 6 player.

I think we can all agree that Hansen was a middle 6 winger and he was paid like one. Garland was acquired to be a top 6 player, is producing like a top 6 forward, and paid like one. It's his lack of fit in the top 6 that makes it even a question whether he is a top 6 forward. It would obviously be silly to call Kessel a 3rd line or middle 6 winger when he was winning Cups with the Penguins.


The issue is that Mik didn't have a history of being a top 6 player. So to me it's a bit concerning when the GM is saying he wasn't expected to be a top 6 player but a middle 6 guy because that's a huge contract for middle 6 winger whose career high is 32 points.

Again, top 6, middle 6 doesn't really matter because the line blurs in terms of the actual on ice usage. "Top line player" or "4th line forward" are probably the only terms cementing actual ice time.

In any case, Mikheyev was brought in for his speed and PKing, not to be a powerplay guy. In terms of even strength production prior to (presumably) falling off a cliff this January, he's produced at a rate comparable to Bjorkstrand or JT Compher. Mikheyev definitely had a better than expected 22-23 (I believe he had a pretty high on ice shooting percentage), but ~2pts/60 is pretty solid middle of the lineup (or top 6, who cares) production.

 

[MarkMM]

Is it semantics though? When we signed Mik, Allvin said, "Ilya will provide a lot of value in our middle six." In response to be pretty worded question about Mik's production in the last 60 games especially in light of him playing every game and spending substantial time in the top 6 , Allvin said along the lines of nobody expected Mik to be a top 6 player.

I think we can all agree that Hansen was a middle 6 winger and he was paid like one. Garland was acquired to be a top 6 player, is producing like a top 6 forward, and paid like one. It's his lack of fit in the top 6 that makes it even a question whether he is a top 6 forward. It would obviously be silly to call Kessel a 3rd line or middle 6 winger when he was winning Cups with the Penguins.


The issue is that Mik didn't have a history of being a top 6 player. So to me it's a bit concerning when the GM is saying he wasn't expected to be a top 6 player but a middle 6 guy because that's a huge contract for middle 6 winger whose career high is 32 points.

Yeah, I wonder if there was any thinking that this was part of a larger plan of bringing in Kuzmenko, creating an environment to bring out the best of Podkolzin, etc...no reason to think that's what they were thinking but this does seem an obvious miss that they're not known for so trying to think what else could be at play.

 

[Jerry the great]

Yeah, I wonder if there was any thinking that this was part of a larger plan of bringing in Kuzmenko, creating an environment to bring out the best of Podkolzin, etc...no reason to think that's what they were thinking but this does seem an obvious miss that they're not known for so trying to think what else could be at play.

I think they brought in Mikheyev because they thought he was a potential break out candidate and he had the speed game they coveted. before the knee injury, he was one of the best skaters in the league. He'd already shown that he was a reliable ES producer who could kill penalties and played a solid 200 foot game. It wasn't a stretch that he might put up much bigger numbers given a bigger role.

 

[F A N]

Yeah, I wonder if there was any thinking that this was part of a larger plan of bringing in Kuzmenko, creating an environment to bring out the best of Podkolzin, etc...no reason to think that's what they were thinking but this does seem an obvious miss that they're not known for so trying to think what else could be at play.

I think they brought in Mikheyev because they thought he was a potential break out candidate and he had the speed game they coveted. before the knee injury, he was one of the best skaters in the league. He'd already shown that he was a reliable ES producer who could kill penalties and played a solid 200 foot game. It wasn't a stretch that he might put up much bigger numbers given a bigger role.

To get Kuzmenko to sign here perhaps? Maybe management thought that we could move Garland and Mik would be a big bodied replacement? There was definitely some Samuelsson (he just needs greater opportunities) vibes here.

Mikheyev is a player our ex-Penguins should be very familiar with. And outside of Mik not being a good finisher in the past, I would think there is quite a bit of analytics support for the player. It's just that from the beginning we paid a huge premium for someone management considered to be a middle 6 rather than top 6 player. Comparatively, Pearson was paid $1.5M a year less and fans complained about his contract (granted that contract aged terribly as well due to injuries).

 

[Jerry the great]

To get Kuzmenko to sign here perhaps? Maybe management thought that we could move Garland and Mik would be a big bodied replacement? There was definitely some Samuelsson (he just needs greater opportunities) vibes here.

Mikheyev is a player our ex-Penguins should be very familiar with. And outside of Mik not being a good finisher in the past, I would think there is quite a bit of analytics support for the player. It's just that from the beginning we paid a huge premium for someone management considered to be a middle 6 rather than top 6 player. Comparatively, Pearson was paid $1.5M a year less and fans complained about his contract (granted that contract aged terribly as well due to injuries).

I have no idea if it had anything to do with trying to entice Kuzmenko to sign in Vancouver...but they were both Gold Star clients.

I really think it had more to do with stylistic fit than anything else. Rutherford hasn't been shy about his opinion on how he wants his teams to play. I really don't think it was a huge premium when you consider the entire body of work. the trajectory of his career in Russia and then the same thing in the NHL, 2/3 of which was during the 2 seasons impacted by the pandemic. They paid up for a guy they thought would be an all situations player, might work on the PP and have top 6 upside. Mikheyev without a blown out knee is probably our best PK forward by a fair margin. his acceleration is not far off of McDavid's and he's got size as well.

 

[MS]

I have no idea if it had anything to do with trying to entice Kuzmenko to sign in Vancouver...but they were both Gold Star clients.

I really think it had more to do with stylistic fit than anything else. Rutherford hasn't been shy about his opinion on how he wants his teams to play. I really don't think it was a huge premium when you consider the entire body of work. the trajectory of his career in Russia and then the same thing in the NHL, 2/3 of which was during the 2 seasons impacted by the pandemic. They paid up for a guy they thought would be an all situations player, might work on the PP and have top 6 upside. Mikheyev without a blown out knee is probably our best PK forward by a fair margin. his acceleration is not far off of McDavid's and he's got size as well.

Outside of a season where he was recovering from a severed wrist tendon, he had been a guy who scored ~40 ES points from high-leverage defensive minutes and was an elite PK guy. And fast as hell. He theoretically ticked a ton of boxes for a slow, small forward group with a terrible PK.

Then he blew his knee in his first preseason game and we've unfortunately just never got to see what we paid for.

21-22 Mikheyev was absolutely outstanding and scored at a 30-goal pace with David Kampf as his regular C while being a PK superstar.

 

[Jerry the great]

Outside of a season where he was recovering from a severed wrist tendon, he had been a guy who scored ~40 ES points from high-leverage defensive minutes and was an elite PK guy. And fast as hell. He theoretically ticked a ton of boxes for a slow, small forward group with a terrible PK.

Then he blew his knee in his first preseason game and we've unfortunately just never got to see what we paid for.

21-22 Mikheyev was absolutely outstanding and scored at a 30-goal pace with David Kampf as his regular C while being a PK superstar.

no argument from me. I had no problem with the signing....or with keeping him next year instead of blowing $60MM-$70MM on an undersized winger who put up damn near all his points playing with a top 5 C (all time) in his prime.

 

[F A N]

Outside of a season where he was recovering from a severed wrist tendon, he had been a guy who scored ~40 ES points from high-leverage defensive minutes and was an elite PK guy. And fast as hell. He theoretically ticked a ton of boxes for a slow, small forward group with a terrible PK.

Then he blew his knee in his first preseason game and we've unfortunately just never got to see what we paid for.

21-22 Mikheyev was absolutely outstanding and scored at a 30-goal pace with David Kampf as his regular C while being a PK superstar.

The odd thing with Mik's PK prowess is that he has never (to my knowledge) been a first off the boards PKer for the Leafs. Here with the Canucks, he spent more time on the PK last season with a bum knee than this season.

 

[MS]

The odd thing with Mik's PK prowess is that he has never (to my knowledge) been a first off the boards PKer for the Leafs. Here with the Canucks, he spent more time on the PK last season with a bum knee than this season.

He was 2nd, 4th, 4th in PK TOI amongst forwards in his 3 years in Toronto so he was very consistently in their regular PK rotation there.

Here, yeah. He had bad results last year (probably because his quick stop-starts were so affected) and seemed to drop off the radar this year. I think they were managing his icetime early and then his overall poor play limited it later.

 

[F A N]

He was 2nd, 4th, 4th in PK TOI amongst forwards in his 3 years in Toronto so he was very consistently in their regular PK rotation there.

Here, yeah. He had bad results last year (probably because his quick stop-starts were so affected) and seemed to drop off the radar this year. I think they were managing his icetime early and then his overall poor play limited it later.

I'm not saying he wasn't in Toronto's PK rotation, but he has been on the "2nd pairing".

Even in 19-20 where he was 2nd, that was in the regular season. Come playoff time he dropped to 6th.

 

[MS]

I'm not saying he wasn't in Toronto's PK rotation, but he has been on the "2nd pairing".

Even in 19-20 where he was 2nd, that was in the regular season. Come playoff time he dropped to 6th.

In 19-20 he was playing a ton on the PK until his regular season was ended by a serious skate cut and then (probably predictably) he played less when he returned in the bubble.

His TOI dropped a bit because Toronto figured out that Mitch Marner was very good on the PK and he took over as the #1 winger guy.

Mikheyev's PK numbers in all 3 years in Toronto were crazy good. 21-22 in particular he had a 5.67 SHGA/60 and a 3.24 SHGF/60 which is ... really, really good.

Even this year for us he was only on the ice for 2 SHGA in 61 PK minutes and was probably underutilized there.

 

[F A N]

In 19-20 he was playing a ton on the PK until his regular season was ended by a serious skate cut and then (probably predictably) he played less when he returned in the bubble.

His TOI dropped a bit because Toronto figured out that Mitch Marner was very good on the PK and he took over as the #1 winger guy.

Mikheyev's PK numbers in all 3 years in Toronto were crazy good. 21-22 in particular he had a 5.67 SHGA/60 and a 3.24 SHGF/60 which is ... really, really good.

Even this year for us he was only on the ice for 2 SHGA in 61 PK minutes and was probably underutilized there.

I don't disagree and I'm not questioning Mik's PK prowess. I'm just pointing out the oddity that Mik hasn't been a first off the boards PKer. I've actually made posts in the past about playing Mik on the PK more.

 

[theguardianII]

Just have to look at Edmonton's Brown.
Mikheyev was just starting to look like his legs came back in the playoffs.
Now in the off season he should practice scoring, deking and shooting, a lot.
To trade him now at this low point is not a great idea.
IMO trade Garland, he was impressive but still didn't score that much for the 5 mil he gets paid, he is a dynamo but still asked for a trade this year.
AND Boeser, is Guentzel supposed to be his replacement for a few years?

 

[DiggerDan]

Haven't seen this posted here yet:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/latest-news/report-canucks-give-mikheyevs-agent-permission-to-facilitate-a-trade-2024

It's going to be a difficult task to unload that contract obviously, but I think it's clear he will be a better fit elsewhere.

 

[F A N]

IMO trade Garland, he was impressive but still didn't score that much for the 5 mil he gets paid, he is a dynamo but still asked for a trade this year.

Garland has denied that he had asked for a trade. Of course, it could be semantics or something else. "Wouldn't mind a move" might be reported as a trade request, but to the player he never asked for one. Kesler did ask for one but is now saying that the team told him to lie about asking for a trade.

I hate to see Garland go, but if he's not in the top 6, it's not a bad idea to get out from underneath his contract. Getting out from Garland and Mik's contract frees up cap space.

 

[lawrence]

Haven't seen this posted here yet:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/latest-news/report-canucks-give-mikheyevs-agent-permission-to-facilitate-a-trade-2024

It's going to be a difficult task to unload that contract obviously, but I think it's clear he will be a better fit elsewhere.

If Pierre Luc Dubois can be moved, I cant see why Mikeyev can't be moved either.

 

[VanJack]

If Pierre Luc Dubois can be moved, I cant see why Mikeyev can't be moved either.

Fingers crossed.....moving Jason Dickinson's to the Hawks came at the expense of a second rounder; but they managed to trade Anthony Beauvillier and his entire contract to the same Hawks and actually got back a conditional fifth rounder. So it can be done.

More likely though the Canucks will either have to retain salary or throw in a conditional late round pick to move Mikheyev. Obviously the only other option is to stick with him; and hope he bounces back. And then try to move him closer to next season's TDL.