WC: IIHF World Championships - Division IIIA

[Garl]

It's more or less like Danish and Norwegian - if they both had mostly Russified surnames. For an outsider it's typically very difficult to tell them apart. But because of the large Russian population in northern parts of Kazakhstan you see more guys with mixed names coming from there (e.g. Maxim Mukhametov), whereas in Kyrgyzstan that's rare.

Maxim Mukhametov is an ethnic tatar, so, its a normal name.

Regarding kyrgyz and uzbek, reason I asked was that in Kyrgyzstan 15% of the population are uzbeks. And honestly, even I can not always distinguish the names and say that kyrgyz are half of the team.Non slavic players are half of the team is a more accurate statement I think.
A guy like Mamed Seifulov I guess is an azeri for example

 

[PanniniClaus]

I wasn't expecting Mexico to be this bad... maybe others saw this coming.

 

[Albatros]

Not exactly sure where you are going with this point as the only way how this would be relevant is if Turkmenistan had players who were good enough to represent Russia.

Lithuania doesn't do absolutely anything to incentivize non-local players to play for us and all the players I talked about are Lithuanian-born so a passport is irrelevant, simply both Polish and Russian minorities are very well represented in our hockey community, as it is in Estonia, Kazakhstan, etc. Which is what the original conversation was about.

The only [marginal] advantage a "desirable passport" gives us is those players are less likely to leave if another country offered them theirs. Maybe it would have stopped Pedan brothers, for example, from representing Russia had they been born 10 years later. But I'm fairly certain Turkmenistan doesn't have the quality of players/prospects to worry about that.

If you get a Turkmenistan citizenship then you're a citizen of one of the most closed-off countries in the world, hockey player or not. Even for Russians that doesn't generally make any sense. In the Baltic States the only thing you need to worry about is how that passport affects your ability to go to Russia, but as an EU citizen you can find hockey gigs all over Europe.

 

[SoundAndFury]

If you get a Turkmenistan citizenship then you're a citizen of one of the most closed-off countries in the world, hockey player or not. Even for Russians that doesn't generally make any sense. In the Baltic States the only thing you need to worry about is how that passport affects your ability to go to Russia, but as an EU citizen you can find hockey gigs all over Europe.

So you are saying that Turkmenistan-born native Russian players are leaving instead of representing them?

1) Is that a fact or just speculation?
2) How does that change the minority representation numbers? I assume even if some of them leave, plenty stay which still makes their numbers in hockey compared to the general population significantly higher.

Like, the initial discussion was how come there are so many Russians in the national teams of those countries. Now you are sort of flipping it on its head trying to illustrate how little sense there is for Russians to do it. So, be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that they ARE there.

 

[Albatros]

Maxim Mukhametov is an ethnic tatar, so, its a normal name.

Regarding kyrgyz and uzbek, reason I asked was that in Kyrgyzstan 15% of the population are uzbeks. And honestly, even I can not always distinguish the names and say that kyrgyz are half of the team.Non slavic players are half of the team is a more accurate statement I think.
A guy like Mamed Seifulov I guess is an azeri for example

For Volga Tatars living among Russians it's normal, whereas Crimean Tatars that were forcibly deported to more southern parts of Central Asia would rarely entertain the thought. Even if they too may commonly use Russian as lingua franca in everyday life. Kazakh and Kyrgyz speakers can easily communicate mutually and even with Volga Tatars somehow. With Uzbeks on the other hand not, and they also have more Persian influence culturally than the traditionally nomadic neighbors which affects names as well. Most Uzbeks live in the Fergana valley which has had fairly severe ethnic tensions in recent past and although things are now improving presumably not many still identify much with Kyrgyzstan in sports or otherwise.

 

[Albatros]

So you are saying that Turkmenistan-born native Russian players are leaving instead of representing them?

1) Is that a fact or just speculation?
2) How does that change the minority representation numbers? I assume even if some of them leave, plenty stay which still makes their numbers in hockey compared to the general population significantly higher.

Like, the initial discussion was how come there are so many Russians in the national teams of those countries. Now you are sort of flipping it on its head trying to illustrate how little sense there is for Russians to do it. So, be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that they ARE there.

Turkmenistan-born Russians have been leaving en masse full stop. I don't think hockey players form an exception there. Looking at their hockey teams we're talking about four or five individuals playing for them so far, including two that are still active. That's not nothing, but even in Lithuania the volumes are quite different and include also up and coming youth players.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Turkmenistan-born Russians have been leaving en masse full stop. I don't think hockey players form an exception there. Looking at their hockey teams we're talking about four or five individuals playing for them so far, including two that are still active. That's not nothing, but even in Lithuania the volumes are quite different and include also up and coming youth players.

Okay. So going back to the original point, what does it tell us about the Russians on the Kyrgyz team exactly? This discussion has really gotten away from me.

 

[Albatros]

In Kyrgyzstan they've had a lot of Russian imports in the past, not as many local Russians, but they seem to invest more in domestic players now especially since they were disqualified in 2019 due to player ineligibility. For example in Kazakhstan there are significant institutions of hockey like Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk that have Russian origins and organizational culture, but in Kyrgyzstan everything has been built up from scratch in the post-Soviet era and first in the rural Naryn region which is as good as entirely Kyrgyz ethnically (and home to the country's second richest man who has acted as a sponsor). Russians in Kyrgyzstan do play hockey among others too of course, but it's not their playground in particular the same way it has been in some other places. Since Omorkanov was elected vice president of the IIHF they also have quite a lot of independent agency in international hockey, though the Russians in their newly found isolation established a group called the Association for the Development of Ice Hockey of Islamic Countries last year and named his dad vice president.

Here's what an ordinary senior team looks like in the country:

 

[tiburon12]

Well Thailand just made quick work of South Africa, who took way too many unnecessary hitting penalties. Their top players are just a step ahead of the rest of the pack and they finally have the depth and goaltending to lock down games. There's a good chance they cruise through the next two games as well

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Any thoughts on South Africa team? 1-1 so far. Seems like on odd mix of older players and 20-somethings.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Didn't realize they played Thailand already. 5-0 before South Africa scored?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Charlie Springer scored seven goals with the Luxembourg U20 team.

Any reason he's not with the men's team?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Well below North American juniors but just curous about Thailand defenseman
Ramin Chan-Urai.

He's played in the Olympic qualifiers and this tournament with the men's team and was an MVP for Thailand's junior team but eliteprospects.com doesn't say where he currently plays.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

Glad I never bet! I would be skint before I know it!

 

[Maverick41]

What's up with Kyrgyzstan's goalkeeping?
Shots for: 175
Shots against: 73

Goals for: 18
Goals against: 17

I have not seen any games, but that just seems kind of crazy to me.

 

[Albatros]

Well below North American juniors but just curous about Thailand defenseman
Ramin Chan-Urai.

He's played in the Olympic qualifiers and this tournament with the men's team and was an MVP for Thailand's junior team but eliteprospects.com doesn't say where he currently plays.

He's been playing for a junior team in Chiang Mai, they have good facilities there but the Siam League is thus far only played in Bangkok.

 

[tiburon12]

Well below North American juniors but just curous about Thailand defenseman
Ramin Chan-Urai.

He's played in the Olympic qualifiers and this tournament with the men's team and was an MVP for Thailand's junior team but eliteprospects.com doesn't say where he currently plays.

He's a Chiang Mai kid. The hub of Thai hockey is here in Bangkok, but there are some good coaches and a full facility in Chiang Mai as well. But there isn't a league nor a team to play in any of our BKK leagues.

He's a good player but he's on the team more because some of the better defenders are unavailable. Two are overseas, one has work, and another played the u18 instead for the experience.

Thai hockey also has a lot of politics and some of the better players don't always get invited to national team stuff. It's embarrassingly amateur to be honest.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

He's a Chiang Mai kid. The hub of Thai hockey is here in Bangkok, but there are some good coaches and a full facility in Chiang Mai as well. But there isn't a league nor a team to play in any of our BKK leagues.

He's a good player but he's on the team more because some of the better defenders are unavailable. Two are overseas, one has work, and another played the u18 instead for the experience.

Thai hockey also has a lot of politics and some of the better players don't always get invited to national team stuff. It's embarrassingly amateur to be honest.

Did he have any interest in playing college hockey here in the US?

 

[FrHockeyFan]

Congratulations to Thailand for gaining promotion! Huge result for them!

I'm also happy Luxembourg proved me wrong. I really expected them to be looking at relegation. A podium finish seemed pretty hard to even contemplate before the event.

 

[Albatros]

Mexico on the other hand shouldn't be flirting with relegation at this point even if their team is weaker than in recent years, though South Africa are still favorites to go down. Almost hoping for some help from Turkmenistan.

 

[tiburon12]

Did he have any interest in playing college hockey here in the US?

I'm not sure, i'm in Bangkok so I don't know him at all actually. But he's not good enough to play college in my estimation. Maybe a D3 but that would be a stretch.

 

[Albatros]

It's too late to make that transition at 19 and anyway a hard to get non-athletic scholarship would probably be necessary. The only Thai-trained player in college hockey that I could find is goalie James McAlear who went to an NCAA D3 and ACHA D2 college from the Siam League, but only got to sit on the bench for one ACHA game as basically an emergency backup. Their starter let in 8 goals against including the last two within 16 seconds but still finished the game.

 

[tiburon12]

It's too late to make that transition at 19 and anyway a hard to get non-athletic scholarship would probably be necessary. The only Thai-trained player in college hockey that I could find is goalie James McAlear who went to an NCAA D3 and ACHA D2 college from the Siam League, but only got to sit on the bench for one ACHA game as basically an emergency backup. Their starter let in 8 goals against including the last two within 16 seconds but still finished the game.

Jimmy isn't Thai trained though, he moved here at 16 or 17, i can't remember. He's back in Thailand now any. The only Thai trained people playing overseas now are two playing at Uni in the UK. A third tried to play club at either BU or Northeastern (can't remember) and didn't make it.

For reference, the "best" player on the national team is half American and played DIII college 10+ years ago, and he at 35 is head and shoulders better than any of the college-eligible kids. Point is, it will be a major deal when a thai-born and trained player will be good enough for any level of US college hockey.

That said there are two 16 year olds who went to high school in America this year that are quite good. Hopefully the diet beefs them up a bit and they can hang with US competition.

 

[Albatros]

High school is pretty much the last moment to go, but given that the game has been growing also domestically at some point the top level should move away from being a mere beer league and adopt the IIHF rules also pertaining to physical play. Otherwise that's going to be a handicap for the national team trying to survive in Division II.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Thanks for the insights on Thai hockey.