IIHF New Rule: Late Hite Rule #153

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I enjoyed the Kunin hit on Myers being referred to as a blindside check, despite hitting him through the chest, because Myers decided to admire his pass rather than look where he was going. Like, if a player just refuses to lock eyes with any oncoming opponents he's ineligible to be hit. It's ridiculous.

Well, that is why the NHL doesn't want to change a thing when it comes to late hits - they want to sell the game to people like you.

CBS explained this in their article from 2015 NHL needs to do more to eliminate late hits, but doesn't seem to want to
 
Who invented trade? Who invented diplomacy? Or here, who invented conditioning? Who invented the concept of a coach?

All of those things were invented, sometimes simultaneously by different people. If you do not understand this concept, I have nothing else to tell you.
 
All of those things were invented, sometimes simultaneously by different people. If you do not understand this concept, I have nothing else to tell you.
Haha that's the recent buzz phrase is it? I guess I'll adopt it them.

Invention implies the intentional formation of a concept. People typically used the word "originated" for those concepts and practices that reflect the ones we mentioned. Practices which we cannot trace an original design to.

The difference is crucial here because it's not likely that anyone designed the art of hitting late, any more than it is likely that someone chose by designation to become the first conditioned competitor. Either, something happened, and other people seeing that it worked, copied it. Or someone designed something. If you don't know, you can just say "we dont know which one it was," but to imply that it was necessarily one or the other is a strong claim and not one Dryden is making.

If you do not understand this concept, I have nothing else to tell you.
 
Here is a professional take on Finishing your check by former NHL player/NHL referee Paul Stewart

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - 'Finish Your Check' Has Become Bane of Hockey's Existence

As a hockey parent, I am totally fearful every time my own two boys play that they will be driven from behind into the boards by some hero who thinks he is proving something or another. I tell my own guys that when they go in, go in strong, with strong feet and be prepared to get hit from someone who has either never been coached properly or just doesn't care. I tell my sons, Max and Mccauley, especially when it's late in a game, to go in shoulder to shoulder with their opponent and don't let them get behind you.

These sorts of images haunt me: I saw a film last year where a player in Europe got drilled and ended up paralyzed. There was another player from Minnesota who, after a bad hit, now needs a wheel chair and a ramp to get around his house.

So for every coach who mindlessly yells" finish your check," I want to, like the Christmas Carol, boil them in plum pudding and drive a stake of holly through their heart.
 
I'm guessing this isn't going to go over well, but I don't think I have a problem with it... I'll need to see it in action though.

I think it's getting back to the root idea of the sport: You're allowed to hit the guy with the puck to make a defensive play. You need a very small window for not being able to INSTANTLY stop or change direction, but I think in all those examples those guys made a conscious decision to hit a player that no longer had the puck. Just have to adapt and accept the new rule and it should be fine.
:thumbu:

Think it's about time someone did something about this. It's alright saying just finishing his check but checking should be used against a player with the puck to take it away from him, not to send a message which seems to be more the case in NA.
 
Here is a professional take on Finishing your check by former NHL player/NHL referee Paul Stewart

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - 'Finish Your Check' Has Become Bane of Hockey's Existence

As a hockey parent, I am totally fearful every time my own two boys play that they will be driven from behind into the boards by some hero who thinks he is proving something or another. I tell my own guys that when they go in, go in strong, with strong feet and be prepared to get hit from someone who has either never been coached properly or just doesn't care. I tell my sons, Max and Mccauley, especially when it's late in a game, to go in shoulder to shoulder with their opponent and don't let them get behind you.

These sorts of images haunt me: I saw a film last year where a player in Europe got drilled and ended up paralyzed. There was another player from Minnesota who, after a bad hit, now needs a wheel chair and a ramp to get around his house.

So for every coach who mindlessly yells" finish your check," I want to, like the Christmas Carol, boil them in plum pudding and drive a stake of holly through their heart.
More irony.

You notice how in this article he never once decries the rules of the NHL? He only decries coaches who encourage players who hit late, and players who disregard the safety of other players.

"You can't finish a check when you haven't started a check. In other words, unless you have the angle to ride someone out of the play legally -- which was how I always understood the concept of checking when used playing and actively officiating -- it's not going to be a legitimate hit."

This is what my original post critiquing your post was getting at. What the hell does "finishing your check" mean? It's not at all clear. From the above quote, Stewart claims that if you "have an angle to ride someone out" of the play, it is a legitimate hit.

So he wants late hits out. But late hits are already illegal. If you don't watch the NHL, you really should not be talking. Stewart isn't asking for new rules, but for coaches to coach the rules on the books. The reason this whole discussion began is because some people felt and feel that the new rules are written such that even players who have angle and directional momentum may be penalized if their hits are delivered within the general .6 second rule used in the NHL.

If you don't watch the NHL. And you literally just googled "NHL late hits", most of which were in fact penalized. Then you really have no business commenting here. Actually watch an NHL game. The ridiculous stereotype you have of players walking around jumping each other seconds after the puck is released is ignorant.

And if you do not understand this concept, I have nothing else to tell you.
 
:thumbu:

Think it's about time someone did something about this. It's alright saying just finishing his check but checking should be used against a player with the puck to take it away from him, not to send a message which seems to be more the case in NA.
Seems from watching the NHL regularly or from listening to others stereotype the NHL, while some others compile montages of bad hits, many of which were penalized, from a season of 1271 games plus playoffs, each lasting 60 or more minutes, with the montage often pulling hits from a span of over 10 years?
 
Well, that is why the NHL doesn't want to change a thing when it comes to late hits - they want to sell the game to people like you.

CBS explained this in their article from 2015 NHL needs to do more to eliminate late hits, but doesn't seem to want to
Let me quote the conclusion of this article verbatim

"They don't even have to change any rules to fix the late-hit problem. They just have to enforce the one that is already on the books. "

Since you don't seem to have noticed, we are discussing a NEW rule from the IIHF which some think is unrealistically strict. So your article that the OLD rules being properly enforced are enough is not helping your case.
 
If they actually go through with this, it will completely change the game.

What will happen is that players start to get rid of the puck anytime they're about to get hit. It will become a way to draw penalties. Not even passing to anyone, just unloading the puck because they know they'll get a PP if they can get rid of the puck before the contact happens.

Then players will adapt to this, which will completely remove hitting from the game.

Yes it will still be legal to hit a player who has the puck, but realistically because all it takes for that player is to get rid of the puck right before the contact happens to get a powerplay, it's too much of a risk to go for the contact so it will effectively lead to removing hitting from the game.
 
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:thumbu:

Think it's about time someone did something about this. It's alright saying just finishing his check but checking should be used against a player with the puck to take it away from him, not to send a message which seems to be more the case in NA.

Even if it's not giving guys concussions, taking players out of the play hurts the offense. It's one thing if, as stated, you actually took the puck carrier out of the play by separating him from the puck. But any monkey can hit a guy after he got rid of the puck. Hard to run a give and go when you get taken out even when the puck is long gone.

Take the useless hitting out of the game. If a guy throws a clean hit on a puck carrier, great. But the late hits.... please, that isn't hockey.

"Finish your checks" as is stated, a euphemism for legalized interference.
 
Let me quote the conclusion of this article verbatim

"They don't even have to change any rules to fix the late-hit problem. They just have to enforce the one that is already on the books. "

Since you don't seem to have noticed, we are discussing a NEW rule from the IIHF which some think is unrealistically strict. So your article that the OLD rules being properly enforced are enough is not helping your case.

You do realize that Simone Biles would have a hard time outscoring the mental gymnastics you are performing in order to try and discredit him.

Just admit you want to see guys get rocked, and you don't care if they hits are late.
 
You do realize that Simone Biles would have a hard time outscoring the mental gymnastics you are performing in order to try and discredit him.

Just admit you want to see guys get rocked, and you don't care if they hits are late.
The problem with accusations of this nature is that they are substanceless. I could say the exact same thing back to you, and it wouldn't be more true or more false. You say mental gymnastics, I say simple argument you can't comprehend. Who is right? There are no merits to debate.

Why the strawman? Whenever you say "just admit it..." you're basically saying "strawman incoming..."

What about I do that back to you? Just admit it. "You just want there to be no contact in the game." No, your arguments haven't supported that stance. It's just that I'm intellectually dishonest and want to group you with an ideology that is easy for me to condemn.

If you actually read my posts since the first page, I'm defending the status quo, where the rule is that a hit with .6 seconds of contact is deemed a legal hit.

The guy you think is so logical has really said nothing meaningful at all. He quotes Dryden, Stewart, and then a CBS Blog. Dryden believes that "finishing your check" is any late hit, even if within the .6 second window, and he says quite openly he wants to go back to the days where hockey was played between short and light people. Let's accept for a moment his causal claim, which I think is dubious. He clearly wants all late hits out of hockey.

Stewart (I think i got the name right, the ref), says that if you have an angle, your hit is legal. He never once decries the existing rules.

The CBS article EXPLICITLY says the current rules are sufficient, which would allow all legal checks within .6 seconds of the release of the puck.

So none of the articles he references are saying the same thing, despite all using the same term, which they each agree is bad but define differently. Its not apparent that two of his sources are at all against the lexis of the current NHL rules, and he doesn't even know that because he self-proclaimed doesn't watch the NHL so he actually had no idea what the rules were.

I get the sense that he came down into this forum for one purpose. To do a moral deed and say "late and dangerous hits are bad." Well no shit. I find myself close to the center of the debate on this, which you can tell if you read my earliest posts in this thread. However, no one here has said "late hits are awesome! Let's have more of that!" The rules do not support that. The modern enforcement of the game does not dictate that. Some of the clips, if you go back to page 2, that he posts are from over 15 years ago, only the Franzen hits happened in the last 5 years, and most of those plays were penalized. Again, he doesn't know that. But you should, if you are a Blues fan.

So let's go back to the topic of the thread. This rule is NOT the first rule to rule that a late hit is a penalty. We have that already. This rule says that there is NOT a .6 second window for players to react to the changing possession of the puck.

If you came to this forum thinking to argue that late hits, broadly speaking, should be illegal, then please stop, because that discussion has already been had and the rules in place say it is in fact illegal

The best example I can think of to illustrate this is Nielsen v Preap, which I won't go into in detail. But it's about whether or not the government has a finite period of time to detain you if you commit a crime as an unlawful alien. What you are trying to argue is "can the government detain such people", but that's already been decided and they decided yes, what the actual case is about is "is there a time frame within which the government has to do so." So debating the former is pointless, until the former comes up for debate, which is not the point of Nielsen v Preap and not the point of this thread in this discussion.
 
Punishing late hits will definitely change the game and also the type of players required specifically of defending type. It is clear that finishing checks strategy is intended to slow down an offensive player as a lot of hits come late and have nothing to do with separating the player from the puck as initially intended. The intent of the late hits is not to allow an odd man rush situations because the defender going after a hit is likely to be going in a different direction than offensive player. If you remove late hits from the game then all of a sudden those players you have defending and checking are to be faster skating backwards or turning in order to keep up with attacking players. I believe the game will be more beautiful then, you will see more finesse, speedy players going after steals, which require more skill.
 
I enjoyed the Kunin hit on Myers being referred to as a blindside check, despite hitting him through the chest, because Myers decided to admire his pass rather than look where he was going. Like, if a player just refuses to lock eyes with any oncoming opponents he's ineligible to be hit. It's ridiculous.
But at the same time, it's legal to hit a guy from behind in the numbers when they just release a puck, so long as you're not hitting him into the boards. The puck carrier has no way of seeing a guy from behind.

The worry is the whiplash effect or worse that the puck carrier gets driven face first into the ice and sustaining a concussion.
 
This happened few months ago Hakanpää got 5+20 for late hit. Haven't this seen this rule used otherwise in the Finnish league.

 
But at the same time, it's legal to hit a guy from behind in the numbers when they just release a puck, so long as you're not hitting him into the boards. The puck carrier has no way of seeing a guy from behind.

The worry is the whiplash effect or worse that the puck carrier gets driven face first into the ice and sustaining a concussion.

That is not what the checking from behind rule states
 
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This rule has good intentions but is absolutely absurd in practice. Besides the last one and maybe the 2nd last hit, all the rest on the explanation video were good checks on players watching the puck. If you watch your pass, be prepared to take the body. A player aggressively fore-checking shouldn't be penalized for grinding a guy into the boards with his momentum immediately after a pass.

A late hit is interference, the first few weren't interference thus should have no penalty attached to them.
 
This rule has good intentions but is absolutely absurd in practice. Besides the last one and maybe the 2nd last hit, all the rest on the explanation video were good checks on players watching the puck. If you watch your pass, be prepared to take the body. A player aggressively fore-checking shouldn't be penalized for grinding a guy into the boards with his momentum immediately after a pass.

A late hit is interference, the first few weren't interference thus should have no penalty attached to them.
I think the people who are worried, at least for now, should not be.

I watched the D1A, D1B WJCs. I watched the friendly matches for this WJC. EBEL games. Other international friendlies. They never once penalized a hit within .6 seconds. So I don't think in practice they're going to actually deviate from the usual.

I mean, did you watch Canada Finland yesterday? Plenty of slightly late hits, within the .6 window, none called. I think they're just trying to give another tool to the refs in their tool box, and it seems unnecessary because we already have interference, but they're not using it any different.
 

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