Player Discussion Igor Shesterkin

[ReddestRum]

Oh poor baby. Maybe he can think of what decision he'll make during the 20 games a season he takes off in net.

LOL. Igor knows what his worth is when it comes to this team, because without him in this equation, this team is nothing.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

LOL. Igor knows what his worth is when it comes to this team, because without him in this equation, this team is nothing.

Ok, Mrs. Shesterkin. Still ignoring the 13th GSx.

 

[ReddestRum]

Ok, Mrs. Shesterkin. Still ignoring the 13th GSx.

Who gives a shit? It's Dec. Historically, Igor has come through for us to give us a chance when we need it the most, during the time when we need it the most, and the team failed him. Just like the team failed their prior HoF goalie.

I've said that the team (and the fans) never deserved Hank, and the same goes for Igor. Here's to hoping Igor sees this org as a sinking ship and just to spite us, lowers the price for his talents on another team that can give him both the offensive and defensive support he needs to win it all.

Meanwhile, please continue to us whine ourselves into another decade of L's. Hopefully, without Igor.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Who gives a shit? It's Dec. Historically, Igor has come through for us to give us a chance when we need it the most, during the time when we need it the most, and the team failed him. Just like the team failed their prior HoF goalie.

I've said that the team (and the fans) never deserved Hank, and the same goes for Igor. Here's to hoping Igor sees this org as a sinking ship and just to spite us, lowers the price for his talents on another team that can give him both the offensive and defensive support he needs to win it all.

Meanwhile, please continue to us whine ourselves into another decade of L's. Hopefully, without Igor.

Ok, Mrs. Shesterkin. Ignore the backbreaking softies he gives up over and over even in the playoffs. At the worst times.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

LOL. Igor knows what his worth is when it comes to this team, because without him in this equation, this team is nothing.

Igor is a slightly above average goalie. He had a world class season several years ago and it was a one-off. He had an amazing playoffs and the hype went off the charts strictly because the NHL media/personnel doesn't watch Rangers games throughout the year. He deserves to be paid more than he's making now. He's not the best goalie in the league or even close.

 

[CasusBelli]

Any Rangers fan who was here for the Lundqvist era that wants to give Shesterkin 11M+ for 8 years is insane. That has nothing to do with whether Shesterkin is great or worth that much. It has to do with the fact that we have watched this exact film before and know how it ends. Poorly constructed and flawed roster that isn’t good enough to win it all despite an elite, possibly the best, goalie spends a decade making the playoffs but never improving enough to get over the hump, while along the way drafting in the 20s every year and spending youth and assets constantly trying to buy the missing piece of the puzzle until the cupboard is pretty bare, the goalie is no longer elite and all of it was futile. You can be the biggest Shesterkin fan there is and still understand that this team shouldn’t sign him or they will constantly labor under the delusion that they’re actually a contender when they will always be a pretender at best. The flaws NEED to stop being masked by elite goaltending.

Other than Brodeur and Roy, I don’t think the best goalie in the world at any given moment has won a cup. You need a hot goalie, not a great goalie.

 

[Ruggs225]

More importantly you need to field a good team around the goalie. Hard to do that when he takes up too much cap.

 

[LokiDog]

Other than Brodeur and Roy, I don’t think the best goalie in the world at any given moment has won a cup. You need a hot goalie, not a great goalie.

Man, it’s this (for me, at least). An elite goalie will probably get you a few more scratch off tickets by making sure you always get to the playoffs, likely winning a bunch of games along the way that you had no business even getting a point in… and then probably help you steal a series or two, and probably make those look closer than they were as well. But ultimately it’s a Kane/Toews/Keith plus a supporting cast and Crawford. A Sid/Geno/Letang plus some support and Matt Murray or Fleury (more known as a ‘good guy’ who was pretty good consistently for a long time than ever being spectacular). The Ovie/Backstrom/Carlsson and a supporting cast with Holtby. Even Kopitar/Brown/Doughty with good depth and Quick. Recently Vegas with anyone they can find in net. You’re better off with a goalie who is in the 10-20 range than paying 1C money for a top 3 goalie. A top 10 center and top 25 goalie is more valuable than a top 3 goalie and a top C over the 15+ range.

It’s almost impossible that we will acquire a genuine 1C before Panarin’s contract expires. It was supposed to be Zibanejad/Panarin/Fox and a supporting cast of Kreider, Trouba, Trochek a once very reliable Lindgren, and a very promising cast of youth in Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller and Schneider.

Lafreniere came around much slower than you’d want from a 1OA, especially with the timing for this core. He’s still not fully found his game.

Kakko, to this point - while a useful player who is learning to consistently be effective - is also disappointing relative to the way his draft position interacts with the timeline of this core.

Chytil also came along a bit slower than one might’ve hoped but mostly has been a victim of injuries. Regardless, his absences have also aligned poorly with the window of contention for this group.

Miller’s been up and down; this year has been maybe his worst. Schneider has been mostly positive. I think Trochek could bounce back if the rest of the team was more hungry too - he seems to be “infected” by the apathy or mopiness of the rest of the vets. Bread’s consistently been fine, all things considered. I’ve hated his playoffs but he’s been a nonstop producer and still has a motor of sorts. Lindy gave all he could, but he’s just toast even earlier than anyone could have predicted. Fox already seems to have lost half a step due to wear and tear/playing through some injuries and seems to also be a little “infected” with the mopes. Kreider has had a rough year, but there’s a lot going on with this group and I feel like he’s always meant to have been a supporting cast type; I’m 50/50 on him - he may need to go to fully reset the room.

However, the biggest issues have been:

1. The three kids arriving a lot slower than the true window arrived (hindsight: Bread’s been one of the best players in the world and we completely wasted his tenure which simultaneously ruined our rebuild, whoops)

2. The Trouba contract ending up being worse than anyone probably thought it would be, plus Fox got a huge extension almost immediately after, and Trouba never actually reaching his WPG peak again

3. Mika Zibanejad being the type of 1C this model would have worked for, for all of a half of a season, in the Covid year before his extension, and never truly being the same since we came back for the bubble play-in

At first we talked about “long Covid” after he followed the bubble embarrassment with a poor start the next year. I think there was some lingering concussion theories? Somewhere along the line he became a big enough PP weapon to offset his initial 5v5 decline, and our PP was truly lethal, which masked some of his shortcomings temporarily.

Then slow starts became the norm but there was “Mika March” to look forward to, when he would get hot, and even score a timely goal or two in the playoffs. But each year he has gotten less and less effective - 5v5, 5v4, 4v5, every facet of his game, to the point where he is simply a Michael Grabner type of player being asked to play a Sidney Crosby role.

Mika Zibanejad was the wrong center. This team has never had a truly, truly elite 1C in their prime. I know the NYR are just too big of a business to ever do it, but I would so much rather somehow have the next Bedard or Celebrini or even a crack at a Kent Johnson or Adam Fantilli. Even though I know we just had those type of picks…

It’s truly a cruel fate - Lafreniere + Kakko + Chytil + Miller + our 1st wouldn’t land us Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle today. It’s popular to belittle those guys here but that’s pure bias. They’re both basically franchise centers as relative children already. We never have had one. I would trade a Shesterkin, or even Lundqvist - 10/10 times at this point to see this team built from center instead of from net.

Elite goalies mask a lot of flaws but you still can’t win games with 1 goal. I would rather be trying to find a goalie for Matthews or McDavid (or be Mackinnon with one Cup already) at 27-28 years old than trying to build a competent roster in front of 29 year old Igor. We’re sort of a fan base of haters; objectively I’d rather have ANY of the players I mentioned over a single person on our team.

Sure, it’s fun to hate on them. I’m 38. These dudes are 22-23. As 21 year olds they each had arguably better years than Mika has ever had with 99 and 90 points in 78 games a piece. When Mika was 21 he put up 46 points in the NHL. I’d kill to have that talent on this team. Shesterkin feels young but he debuted older; he’ll be 29 shortly. Fox is turning 27. Imagine having a 21 year old center put up 90+ points.

 

[Row I Goon]

Man, it’s this (for me, at least). An elite goalie will probably get you a few more scratch off tickets by making sure you always get to the playoffs, likely winning a bunch of games along the way that you had no business even getting a point in… and then probably help you steal a series or two, and probably make those look closer than they were as well. But ultimately it’s a Kane/Toews/Keith plus a supporting cast and Crawford. A Sid/Geno/Letang plus some support and Matt Murray or Fleury (more famous for being pretty good consistently for a long time than ever being spectacular, and a great personality). The Ovie/Backstrom/Carlsson and a great supporting cast with Holtby. Even Kopitar/Brown/Doughty with good depth and Quick. You’re better off with a goalie who is in the 10-20 range than paying 1C money for a top 3 goalie. A top 10 center and top 25 goalie is more valuable than a top 3 goalie and a top C over the 15+ range.

It’s almost impossible that we will acquire a genuine 1C before Panarin’s contract expires. It was supposed to be Zibanejad/Panarin/Fox and a supporting cast of Kreider, Trouba, Trochek a once very reliable Lindgren, and a very promising cast of youth in Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller and Schneider.

Lafreniere came around much slower than you’d want from a 1OA, especially with the timing for this core. He’s still not fully found his game.

Kakko, to this point - while a useful player who is learning to consistently be effective - is also disappointing relative to the timeline of the core.

Chytil also came along a bit slower than one might’ve hoped but mostly has been a victim of injuries. Regardless, his absences have also aligned poorly with the window of contention for this group.

Miller’s been up and down; this year has been maybe his worst. Schneider has been mostly positive. I think Trochek could bounce back if the rest of the team was more hungry too - he seems to be “infected” by the apathy or mopiness of the rest of the vets. Bread’s consistently been fine, all things considered. I’ve hated his playoffs but he’s been a nonstop producer and still has a motor of sorts. Lindy gave all he could, but he’s just toast even earlier than anyone could have predicted. Fox already seems to have lost half a step due to wear and tear/playing through some injuries and seems to also be a little “infected” with the Moe’s. Kreider has had a rough year, but there’s a lot going on with this group and I feel like he’s always meant to have been a supporting cast type; I’m 50/50 on him - he may need to go to fully reset the room.

However, the biggest issues have been:

1. The three kids arriving a lot slower than the true window arrived (hindsight: Bread’s been one of the best players in the world and we completely wasted his tenure which simultaneously ruined our rebuild, whoops)

2. The Trouba contract ending up being worse than anyone probably thought it would be, plus Fox got a huge extension almost immediately after, and Trouba never actually reaching his WPF peak again

3. Mika Zibanejad being the type of 1C this model would have worked for, for all of a half of a season, in the Covid year before his extension, and never truly being the same since we came back for the bubble play-in

At first we talked about “long Covid” after he followed the bubble embarrassment with a poor start the next year. I think there was some lingering concussion theories? Somewhere along the line he became a big enough PP weapon to offset his initial 5v5 decline, and our PP was truly lethal, which masked some of his shortcomings temporarily.

Then slow starts became the norm but there was “Mika March” to look forward to, when he would get hot, and even score a timely goal or two in the playoffs. But each year he has gotten less and less effective - 5v5, 5v4, 4v5, every facet of his game, to the point where he is simply a Michael Grabner type of player being asked to play a Sidney Crosby role.

Mika Zibanejad was the wrong center. This team has never had a truly, truly elite 1C in their prime. I know the NYR are just too big of a business to ever do it, but I would so much rather somehow have the next Bedard or Celebrini or even a crack at a Kent Johnson or Adam Fantilli. Even though I know we just had those type of picks…

It’s truly a cruel fate - Lafreniere + Kakko + Chytil + Miller + our 1st wouldn’t land us Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle today. It’s popular to belittle those guys here but that’s pure bias. They’re both basically franchise centers as relative children already. We never have had one. I would trade a Shesterkin, or even Lundqvist - 10/10 times at this point to see this team built from center instead of from net.

Elite goalies mask a lot of flaws but you still can’t win games with 1 goal. I would rather be trying to find a goalie for Matthews or McDavid (or be Mackinnon with a Cup already) at 27-28 years old than trying to build a competent roster in front of 29 year old Igor. We’re a fan base of haters; objectively I’d rather have ANY of the players I mentioned over a single person on our team.

Great post, Loki.

In hindsight, we should have given the kids more TOI and stapled them to special teams.

 

[CLW]

Great post, Loki.

In hindsight, we should have given the kids more TOI and stapled them to special teams.

What bloody hindsight. Some of us have been saying that every step of the way but got ridiculed because "we need to win now" [with this sh*t core].

 

[RangersFan1994]

Man, it’s this (for me, at least). An elite goalie will probably get you a few more scratch off tickets by making sure you always get to the playoffs, likely winning a bunch of games along the way that you had no business even getting a point in… and then probably help you steal a series or two, and probably make those look closer than they were as well. But ultimately it’s a Kane/Toews/Keith plus a supporting cast and Crawford. A Sid/Geno/Letang plus some support and Matt Murray or Fleury (more known as a ‘good guy’ who was pretty good consistently for a long time than ever being spectacular). The Ovie/Backstrom/Carlsson and a supporting cast with Holtby. Even Kopitar/Brown/Doughty with good depth and Quick. Recently Vegas with anyone they can find in net. You’re better off with a goalie who is in the 10-20 range than paying 1C money for a top 3 goalie. A top 10 center and top 25 goalie is more valuable than a top 3 goalie and a top C over the 15+ range.

It’s almost impossible that we will acquire a genuine 1C before Panarin’s contract expires. It was supposed to be Zibanejad/Panarin/Fox and a supporting cast of Kreider, Trouba, Trochek a once very reliable Lindgren, and a very promising cast of youth in Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller and Schneider.

Lafreniere came around much slower than you’d want from a 1OA, especially with the timing for this core. He’s still not fully found his game.

Kakko, to this point - while a useful player who is learning to consistently be effective - is also disappointing relative to the way his draft position interacts with the timeline of this core.

Chytil also came along a bit slower than one might’ve hoped but mostly has been a victim of injuries. Regardless, his absences have also aligned poorly with the window of contention for this group.

Miller’s been up and down; this year has been maybe his worst. Schneider has been mostly positive. I think Trochek could bounce back if the rest of the team was more hungry too - he seems to be “infected” by the apathy or mopiness of the rest of the vets. Bread’s consistently been fine, all things considered. I’ve hated his playoffs but he’s been a nonstop producer and still has a motor of sorts. Lindy gave all he could, but he’s just toast even earlier than anyone could have predicted. Fox already seems to have lost half a step due to wear and tear/playing through some injuries and seems to also be a little “infected” with the mopes. Kreider has had a rough year, but there’s a lot going on with this group and I feel like he’s always meant to have been a supporting cast type; I’m 50/50 on him - he may need to go to fully reset the room.

However, the biggest issues have been:

1. The three kids arriving a lot slower than the true window arrived (hindsight: Bread’s been one of the best players in the world and we completely wasted his tenure which simultaneously ruined our rebuild, whoops)

2. The Trouba contract ending up being worse than anyone probably thought it would be, plus Fox got a huge extension almost immediately after, and Trouba never actually reaching his WPG peak again

3. Mika Zibanejad being the type of 1C this model would have worked for, for all of a half of a season, in the Covid year before his extension, and never truly being the same since we came back for the bubble play-in

At first we talked about “long Covid” after he followed the bubble embarrassment with a poor start the next year. I think there was some lingering concussion theories? Somewhere along the line he became a big enough PP weapon to offset his initial 5v5 decline, and our PP was truly lethal, which masked some of his shortcomings temporarily.

Then slow starts became the norm but there was “Mika March” to look forward to, when he would get hot, and even score a timely goal or two in the playoffs. But each year he has gotten less and less effective - 5v5, 5v4, 4v5, every facet of his game, to the point where he is simply a Michael Grabner type of player being asked to play a Sidney Crosby role.

Mika Zibanejad was the wrong center. This team has never had a truly, truly elite 1C in their prime. I know the NYR are just too big of a business to ever do it, but I would so much rather somehow have the next Bedard or Celebrini or even a crack at a Kent Johnson or Adam Fantilli. Even though I know we just had those type of picks…

It’s truly a cruel fate - Lafreniere + Kakko + Chytil + Miller + our 1st wouldn’t land us Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle today. It’s popular to belittle those guys here but that’s pure bias. They’re both basically franchise centers as relative children already. We never have had one. I would trade a Shesterkin, or even Lundqvist - 10/10 times at this point to see this team built from center instead of from net.

Elite goalies mask a lot of flaws but you still can’t win games with 1 goal. I would rather be trying to find a goalie for Matthews or McDavid (or be Mackinnon with one Cup already) at 27-28 years old than trying to build a competent roster in front of 29 year old Igor. We’re sort of a fan base of haters; objectively I’d rather have ANY of the players I mentioned over a single person on our team.

Sure, it’s fun to hate on them. I’m 38. These dudes are 22-23. As 21 year olds they each had arguably better years than Mika has ever had with 99 and 90 points in 78 games a piece. When Mika was 21 he put up 46 points in the NHL. I’d kill to have that talent on this team. Shesterkin feels young but he debuted older; he’ll be 29 shortly. Fox is turning 27. Imagine having a 21 year old center put up 90+ points.
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Kreider has been here since the Derek Stepan days and was always a solid performer in the playoffs. Considering his cap hit and out of the core vets he does have the most trade value outside from Panarin (if he was ever to be available). Kreider would be a tough move but he would bring the most back in a trade . Kreider should be one of the vets to bring leadership and experience with the younger core the Rangers have. One reason I want to see Kreider mentoring Cuylle especially with being in front and getting deflections and teaching Cuylle to be the Kreider replacement down the road. Kreider is the only one to do this consistently. Rangers need to find a Kreider replacement. He's not gonna play forever. Rangers need to have more than 1 player willing to go in front of the net to deflect pucks, tip passes, crash the net.

 

[DevilDog99]

That Vezina season is starting to look like the outlier (which is fair enough, he was lights out all year).
His other seasons as starter have SV% of .916, .916, .912 and .913 so far this season. None of which screams '$11m+'
He's a good goalie, and he can a game breaker at times, but you can't invest that kind of $$ for that expected return

This. He hasn’t stolen us a series yet ala hank and the true great goalies.

He is a good goalie.

LOL. Igor knows what his worth is when it comes to this team, because without him in this equation, this team is nothing.

He is worth about as much as any average nhl goalie. Good games and bad. He is not even close to elite. He had one excellent season. Great in goaltending is consistency. There are sooooo many goalies that shined for a year or so.

Igor is good-average good.

 

[leetch99]

More importantly you need to field a good team around the goalie. Hard to do that when he takes up too much cap.

Yeah...i'm leaning the other way now....14 million likely can get us a decent tandem in the net and a 6th DMan or TWO for that matter .....that solves a lot of problems rather than create many new ones . Plus we should get a young goalie with promise back and at least a first and a second and maybe a prospect for the D or C spots .....trading him must be entertained on account of his age . We have a chance to evolve quickly if we do a good job scouting and drafting plus what we already have in the room and system . It's not all doom and gloom ....but if next sear is....I'm fine with McKenna as the silver lining .

 

[Machinehead]

So far, this is the second year in a row our decrepit backup making a million dollars is just as good.

 

[Bob Richards]

Igor is a good goalie. Hes not “slightly above average” lol come on.

But that all world vezina season does stick out as the aberration. He’s more like a perennial top 10 goalie than a perennial top 2 like Lundqvist was.

 

[will1066]

Igor is a good goalie. Hes not “slightly above average” lol come on.

But that all world vezina season does stick out as the aberration. He’s more like a perennial top 10 goalie than a perennial top 2 like Lundqvist was.

It's kinda safe at this point to say that he is no Hank and will never be on his level. As long as he stays a Ranger. If he goes elsewhere to a contender, he'll be reinvigorated, motivated and likely be god-tier.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Igor at his best is almost as good as Hank. Hank did do a better job shutting the door completely. However, Igor goes full emo for 20+ games a year and just forgets how to play goalie.

 

[Mike in Houston]

 

[duhmetreE]

8.5M or bye

 

[McRanger92]

8.5M or bye

Cap is going up, i'll give him 10. But the idea that we should pay him 12/13 because he is money in the playoffs is misguided. He's too fragile in the regular season to hamstring the team that much, and why should he make more than Bob and Vasilevksy who have 3 Cups in 4 appearances the last 5 years.

 

[CasusBelli]

Man, it’s this (for me, at least). An elite goalie will probably get you a few more scratch off tickets by making sure you always get to the playoffs, likely winning a bunch of games along the way that you had no business even getting a point in… and then probably help you steal a series or two, and probably make those look closer than they were as well. But ultimately it’s a Kane/Toews/Keith plus a supporting cast and Crawford. A Sid/Geno/Letang plus some support and Matt Murray or Fleury (more known as a ‘good guy’ who was pretty good consistently for a long time than ever being spectacular). The Ovie/Backstrom/Carlsson and a supporting cast with Holtby. Even Kopitar/Brown/Doughty with good depth and Quick. Recently Vegas with anyone they can find in net. You’re better off with a goalie who is in the 10-20 range than paying 1C money for a top 3 goalie. A top 10 center and top 25 goalie is more valuable than a top 3 goalie and a top C over the 15+ range.

It’s almost impossible that we will acquire a genuine 1C before Panarin’s contract expires. It was supposed to be Zibanejad/Panarin/Fox and a supporting cast of Kreider, Trouba, Trochek a once very reliable Lindgren, and a very promising cast of youth in Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller and Schneider.

Lafreniere came around much slower than you’d want from a 1OA, especially with the timing for this core. He’s still not fully found his game.

Kakko, to this point - while a useful player who is learning to consistently be effective - is also disappointing relative to the way his draft position interacts with the timeline of this core.

Chytil also came along a bit slower than one might’ve hoped but mostly has been a victim of injuries. Regardless, his absences have also aligned poorly with the window of contention for this group.

Miller’s been up and down; this year has been maybe his worst. Schneider has been mostly positive. I think Trochek could bounce back if the rest of the team was more hungry too - he seems to be “infected” by the apathy or mopiness of the rest of the vets. Bread’s consistently been fine, all things considered. I’ve hated his playoffs but he’s been a nonstop producer and still has a motor of sorts. Lindy gave all he could, but he’s just toast even earlier than anyone could have predicted. Fox already seems to have lost half a step due to wear and tear/playing through some injuries and seems to also be a little “infected” with the mopes. Kreider has had a rough year, but there’s a lot going on with this group and I feel like he’s always meant to have been a supporting cast type; I’m 50/50 on him - he may need to go to fully reset the room.

However, the biggest issues have been:

1. The three kids arriving a lot slower than the true window arrived (hindsight: Bread’s been one of the best players in the world and we completely wasted his tenure which simultaneously ruined our rebuild, whoops)

2. The Trouba contract ending up being worse than anyone probably thought it would be, plus Fox got a huge extension almost immediately after, and Trouba never actually reaching his WPG peak again

3. Mika Zibanejad being the type of 1C this model would have worked for, for all of a half of a season, in the Covid year before his extension, and never truly being the same since we came back for the bubble play-in

At first we talked about “long Covid” after he followed the bubble embarrassment with a poor start the next year. I think there was some lingering concussion theories? Somewhere along the line he became a big enough PP weapon to offset his initial 5v5 decline, and our PP was truly lethal, which masked some of his shortcomings temporarily.

Then slow starts became the norm but there was “Mika March” to look forward to, when he would get hot, and even score a timely goal or two in the playoffs. But each year he has gotten less and less effective - 5v5, 5v4, 4v5, every facet of his game, to the point where he is simply a Michael Grabner type of player being asked to play a Sidney Crosby role.

Mika Zibanejad was the wrong center. This team has never had a truly, truly elite 1C in their prime. I know the NYR are just too big of a business to ever do it, but I would so much rather somehow have the next Bedard or Celebrini or even a crack at a Kent Johnson or Adam Fantilli. Even though I know we just had those type of picks…

It’s truly a cruel fate - Lafreniere + Kakko + Chytil + Miller + our 1st wouldn’t land us Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle today. It’s popular to belittle those guys here but that’s pure bias. They’re both basically franchise centers as relative children already. We never have had one. I would trade a Shesterkin, or even Lundqvist - 10/10 times at this point to see this team built from center instead of from net.

Elite goalies mask a lot of flaws but you still can’t win games with 1 goal. I would rather be trying to find a goalie for Matthews or McDavid (or be Mackinnon with one Cup already) at 27-28 years old than trying to build a competent roster in front of 29 year old Igor. We’re sort of a fan base of haters; objectively I’d rather have ANY of the players I mentioned over a single person on our team.

Sure, it’s fun to hate on them. I’m 38. These dudes are 22-23. As 21 year olds they each had arguably better years than Mika has ever had with 99 and 90 points in 78 games a piece. When Mika was 21 he put up 46 points in the NHL. I’d kill to have that talent on this team. Shesterkin feels young but he debuted older; he’ll be 29 shortly. Fox is turning 27. Imagine having a 21 year old center put up 90+ points.
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Agreed with everything you said.

Dolan is a big part of the problem; he wants to maximize earnings every step of the way. I don't blame him from a business perspective. But, as a fan, we need a multibillionaire playboy owner who wants to play real-world EA and is ok with mediocre attendance and bad merchandise sales for a decade while we rack up 50 top-ten picks, and buy the best management and coaching you can get to develop the product. It's kind of like soccer: the teams are expected to lose money; they're just a hobby for rich guys who want a more real-world alternative to NHL / FIFA.

 

[LORDE]

More importantly you need to field a good team around the goalie. Hard to do that when he takes up too much cap.

I keep saying this & no one believes me

 

[LORDE]

Man, it’s this (for me, at least). An elite goalie will probably get you a few more scratch off tickets by making sure you always get to the playoffs, likely winning a bunch of games along the way that you had no business even getting a point in… and then probably help you steal a series or two, and probably make those look closer than they were as well. But ultimately it’s a Kane/Toews/Keith plus a supporting cast and Crawford. A Sid/Geno/Letang plus some support and Matt Murray or Fleury (more known as a ‘good guy’ who was pretty good consistently for a long time than ever being spectacular). The Ovie/Backstrom/Carlsson and a supporting cast with Holtby. Even Kopitar/Brown/Doughty with good depth and Quick. Recently Vegas with anyone they can find in net. You’re better off with a goalie who is in the 10-20 range than paying 1C money for a top 3 goalie. A top 10 center and top 25 goalie is more valuable than a top 3 goalie and a top C over the 15+ range.

It’s almost impossible that we will acquire a genuine 1C before Panarin’s contract expires. It was supposed to be Zibanejad/Panarin/Fox and a supporting cast of Kreider, Trouba, Trochek a once very reliable Lindgren, and a very promising cast of youth in Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller and Schneider.

Lafreniere came around much slower than you’d want from a 1OA, especially with the timing for this core. He’s still not fully found his game.

Kakko, to this point - while a useful player who is learning to consistently be effective - is also disappointing relative to the way his draft position interacts with the timeline of this core.

Chytil also came along a bit slower than one might’ve hoped but mostly has been a victim of injuries. Regardless, his absences have also aligned poorly with the window of contention for this group.

Miller’s been up and down; this year has been maybe his worst. Schneider has been mostly positive. I think Trochek could bounce back if the rest of the team was more hungry too - he seems to be “infected” by the apathy or mopiness of the rest of the vets. Bread’s consistently been fine, all things considered. I’ve hated his playoffs but he’s been a nonstop producer and still has a motor of sorts. Lindy gave all he could, but he’s just toast even earlier than anyone could have predicted. Fox already seems to have lost half a step due to wear and tear/playing through some injuries and seems to also be a little “infected” with the mopes. Kreider has had a rough year, but there’s a lot going on with this group and I feel like he’s always meant to have been a supporting cast type; I’m 50/50 on him - he may need to go to fully reset the room.

However, the biggest issues have been:

1. The three kids arriving a lot slower than the true window arrived (hindsight: Bread’s been one of the best players in the world and we completely wasted his tenure which simultaneously ruined our rebuild, whoops)

2. The Trouba contract ending up being worse than anyone probably thought it would be, plus Fox got a huge extension almost immediately after, and Trouba never actually reaching his WPG peak again

3. Mika Zibanejad being the type of 1C this model would have worked for, for all of a half of a season, in the Covid year before his extension, and never truly being the same since we came back for the bubble play-in

At first we talked about “long Covid” after he followed the bubble embarrassment with a poor start the next year. I think there was some lingering concussion theories? Somewhere along the line he became a big enough PP weapon to offset his initial 5v5 decline, and our PP was truly lethal, which masked some of his shortcomings temporarily.

Then slow starts became the norm but there was “Mika March” to look forward to, when he would get hot, and even score a timely goal or two in the playoffs. But each year he has gotten less and less effective - 5v5, 5v4, 4v5, every facet of his game, to the point where he is simply a Michael Grabner type of player being asked to play a Sidney Crosby role.

Mika Zibanejad was the wrong center. This team has never had a truly, truly elite 1C in their prime. I know the NYR are just too big of a business to ever do it, but I would so much rather somehow have the next Bedard or Celebrini or even a crack at a Kent Johnson or Adam Fantilli. Even though I know we just had those type of picks…

It’s truly a cruel fate - Lafreniere + Kakko + Chytil + Miller + our 1st wouldn’t land us Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle today. It’s popular to belittle those guys here but that’s pure bias. They’re both basically franchise centers as relative children already. We never have had one. I would trade a Shesterkin, or even Lundqvist - 10/10 times at this point to see this team built from center instead of from net.

Elite goalies mask a lot of flaws but you still can’t win games with 1 goal. I would rather be trying to find a goalie for Matthews or McDavid (or be Mackinnon with one Cup already) at 27-28 years old than trying to build a competent roster in front of 29 year old Igor. We’re sort of a fan base of haters; objectively I’d rather have ANY of the players I mentioned over a single person on our team.

Sure, it’s fun to hate on them. I’m 38. These dudes are 22-23. As 21 year olds they each had arguably better years than Mika has ever had with 99 and 90 points in 78 games a piece. When Mika was 21 he put up 46 points in the NHL. I’d kill to have that talent on this team. Shesterkin feels young but he debuted older; he’ll be 29 shortly. Fox is turning 27. Imagine having a 21 year old center put up 90+ points.
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So much truth.

SO

f***ING

DEPRESSING