Iginla vs Demidov

[biturbo19]

The main thing with Tiggy...is that i'd almost default to a Jake Virtanen comp. He plays a very similar sort of game in the Dub.

He's smaller, not as fast, doesn't have that same laserbeam of a shot. What makes him a better prospect than Virtanen?


I do think Tij maybe has a little more hockey sense...but both basically play the game with blinders on. Tunnel vision on both. Iginla is more adapted to going to the net to score the ugly goals. But there's a lot of similarity there, that'd scare the bejeepus out of me as high as he's being discussed.

Granted, i actually like Virtanen in that draft. So maybe i'm an idiot. But that skills package was just too enticing to turn down. Turns out, his off-ice stuff was trash. He never had the work ethic to get there and he had his obvious off-ice distractions and sidetracks that were probably related to that. Maybe Iginla's kid will know better and that can be huge in development. But eeeeesh...he scares me as a top pick.

 

[Kevin Musto]

The main thing with Tiggy...is that i'd almost default to a Jake Virtanen comp. He plays a very similar sort of game in the Dub.

He's smaller, not as fast, doesn't have that same laserbeam of a shot. What makes him a better prospect than Virtanen?


I do think Tij maybe has a little more hockey sense...but both basically play the game with blinders on. Tunnel vision on both. Iginla is more adapted to going to the net to score the ugly goals. But there's a lot of similarity there, that'd scare the bejeepus out of me as high as he's being discussed.

Granted, i actually like Virtanen in that draft. So maybe i'm an idiot. But that skills package was just too enticing to turn down. Turns out, his off-ice stuff was trash. He never had the work ethic to get there and he had his obvious off-ice distractions and sidetracks that were probably related to that. Maybe Iginla's kid will know better and that can be huge in development. But eeeeesh...he scares me as a top pick.

Not sure what your criteria looks like for a good shot, but Iginla's is top 3 in this draft class.

Iginla’s style of play projects easier to the nhl, north-south power forward who plays an all around game with above average skill in every aspect and a great work ethic is more likely to translate to the NHL. Demidov on the other hand, is an insane puck handler who exemplifies the “puck on a string” saying. He is less likely to translate to the NHL simply because dipsy-doodling around opponents is much more difficult at the NHL level than Iginla’s game. This is why Demidov’s floor is lower because his game might not translate at all. Demidov’s ceiling is higher than Iginla’s however because if his game translates, he will be a game breaker with his deception, vision, and hands. It’s hard to articulate but basically Iginla is very good at things that probably translate, while Demidov is otherworldly good at a style that may or may not translate.

So Demidov's ceiling is higher because he can... dangle more?

Does the dangling result in more goals?

 

[biturbo19]

Not sure what your criteria looks like for a good shot, but Iginla's is top 3 in this draft class.

Okay, in this class...maybe.

But how do you compare Tiggy's shot to Virtanen's in his own draft year?

 

[Kevin Musto]

Okay, in this class...maybe.

But how do you compare Tiggy's shot to Virtanen's in his own draft year?

I don't know.

I didn't scout prospects back then.

 

[I am Bettman]

Not sure what your criteria looks like for a good shot, but Iginla's is top 3 in this draft class.


So Demidov's ceiling is higher because he can... dangle more?

Does the dangling result in more goals?

Kind of oversimplified what I said there, and I can tell that you likely aren’t going to change your mind. Imagine them both as cars. Iginla is a reliable and consistent vehicle with a good engine and good handling which makes it more likely that the vehicle will have a solid performance on the track, but Demidov has a ridiculously powerful and effective engine and is just ok in other aspects. Demidov’s car may suck on the track if the transmission can’t use the engine well, but if the engine is able to be used effectively his lap time will be astronomically higher than Iginla’s because the gap in one aspect is just so crazy. Demidov’s stickhandling is the crazy engine in this case, but his other skills may keep him from being able from using his stick handling to its full ability.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't know.

I didn't scout prospects back then.

So...not a very long track record to stand on then. That's fine.

But you somehow took offense to the idea that Virtanen had a better shot. So...if not comparing it to that in the Dub, what are you comparing it to as a reference point?

 

[CanadienShark]

What? It's kinda late in the game to turn into a centreman if you weren't even a dominant one in junior. Let's all be honest playing a bit of centre might help his overall game but anyone who thinks he can do that in the big show is bound to be disappointed.

In my humble opinion he's gonna be a very good winger, a very good second line winger. Also size? He's barely 6' tall and isn't the wrecking ball his dad was. So if you think he's a C version of his dad, you're in for a rude awakening.

Tell that to Claude Giroux.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Kind of oversimplified what I said there, and I can tell that you likely aren’t going to change your mind. Imagine them both as cars. Iginla is a reliable and consistent vehicle with a good engine and good handling which makes it more likely that the vehicle will have a solid performance on the track, but Demidov has a ridiculously powerful and effective engine and is just ok in other aspects. Demidov’s car may suck on the track if the transmission can’t use the engine well, but if the engine is able to be used effectively his lap time will be astronomically higher than Iginla’s because the gap in one aspect is just so crazy. Demidov’s stickhandling is the crazy engine in this case, but his other skills may keep him from being able from using his stick handling to its full ability.

Iginla's stickhandling is some of the best in the draft.

While it's not Demidov level, I don't see how Demidov being a little bit better as a stickhandler, and worse at everything else, suddenly gives him a ceiling that's much higher.

That's the part I'm not understanding.

 

[wetcoast]

I find it interesting that when it comes to the best available forward after Celebrini, the consensus seems to be that it's Demidov.

And yet I've yet to see a single person successfully argue that he's better than Iginla.

Perhaps Demidov has better hands than Iginla, but Iginla's hands are so good that it's hardly an advantage in Demidov's favor.

Everything else, Iginla is better at. He's a vastly superior scorer, he's more physical, he plays with more pro-like tendencies, he's more refined, better skater, his rate of improvement was staggeringly higher than Demidov throughout the season, and he's close to a full year younger.

Iginla is being groomed as a center next season and teams are now projecting him to play as one in the NHL, a position of higher value than wing.

Iginla is also doing all of this against vastly superior competition in the WHL.

Is this simply a case of the media getting locked into the placement of a player early in the season, and then refusing to budge once the evidence is against it? It's happened before.

Jerome is that you?

Iginla's stickhandling is some of the best in the draft.

While it's not Demidov level, I don't see how Demidov being a little bit better as a stickhandler, and worse at everything else, suddenly gives him a ceiling that's much higher.

That's the part I'm not understanding.

I guess you don't understand it because you don't want to.

Demidov is extremely dynamic and has a better offensive skill set than Iggy 2.0.

The Big question is how those skills translate but I think we will find out when he puts on a Black Hawks sweater.

 

[I am Bettman]

Iginla's stickhandling is some of the best in the draft.

While it's not Demidov level, I don't see how Demidov being a little bit better as a stickhandler, and worse at everything else, suddenly gives him a ceiling that's much higher.

That's the part I'm not understanding.

It’s because Demidov’s stickhandling is more than a little bit better. It’s sort of like Eiserman vs somebody like Cole Beaudoin. Eiserman’s crazy goal scoring ability and shot will either translate enough that he can be a star, or his deficiencies in other areas cause him to be a bust. Beaudoin has a way higher chance of becoming an nhler because of his overall skill set, but he has basically no chance of becoming a star because he doesn’t have any skills that are crazy good. All of Iginla’s tools are 7/10. Demidov has 10/10 stickhandling and vision, but 5/10 in some other aspects, so if his stickhandling works at the NHL level he will be a game breaker whereas Iginla’s ceiling is limited by his lack of standout ability in any particular area.

 

[Leafshater67]

Haha I've watched them both plenty.


It's not a dumb reply.

There's a lot of parroting going on.

You yourself can't even put it into words. You're not alone either.

I don’t need to put anything in words. One guy on a forum does not speak for the scouting community and if you want to see it put in words, go look.

I’m not sure why you’re arguing this. You know my opinion, you know the opinion of scouts and you know your own. If you disagree, move along and hope the team you like picks Iginla.

You’re being really combative for no reason. Scouting is not an exact science and there are no facts. If you think Iginla is the better player, cool. I didn’t say he sucked. I like his game. In the scouting community, there’s a perceived higher ceiling on Demidov however. Will he teach it? Who knows. I just stated my opinion that I feel Iginla is a safer pick.

 

[Kevin Musto]

They went back to back so they're going to be closely compared their whole careers.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This thread is almost offensive. Demidov is a vastly superior hockey player. I don’t even feel the need to compare micro aspects. I don’t know how you could argue that Iginla is better. He got bumped up for PR and Demidov got bumped down for PR.

 

[Mrb1p]

Demidov but Iginla is a close second, with Catton not far behind and Lindstrom trailing. These 4 all have elite first line potential, Demidov has franchise.

The main thing with Tiggy...is that i'd almost default to a Jake Virtanen comp. He plays a very similar sort of game in the Dub.

He's smaller, not as fast, doesn't have that same laserbeam of a shot. What makes him a better prospect than Virtanen?


I do think Tij maybe has a little more hockey sense...but both basically play the game with blinders on. Tunnel vision on both. Iginla is more adapted to going to the net to score the ugly goals. But there's a lot of similarity there, that'd scare the bejeepus out of me as high as he's being discussed.

Granted, i actually like Virtanen in that draft. So maybe i'm an idiot. But that skills package was just too enticing to turn down. Turns out, his off-ice stuff was trash. He never had the work ethic to get there and he had his obvious off-ice distractions and sidetracks that were probably related to that. Maybe Iginla's kid will know better and that can be huge in development. But eeeeesh...he scares me as a top pick.

What makes him a bette prospect ? Probably that you're terrible at evaluating prospects, for one.

 

[Fantomas]

Hawks fans coping with their team not taking Demidov is funny.

 

[biturbo19]

Demidov but Iginla is a close second, with Catton not far behind and Lindstrom trailing. These 4 all have elite first line potential, Demidov has franchise.


What makes him a bette prospect ? Probably that you're terrible at evaluating prospects, for one.

An ad hominem attack on me, makes Tij Iginla a better prospect than Virtanen?

That's what you're going with?

 

[Mrb1p]

An ad hominem attack on me, makes Tij Iginla a better prospect than Virtanen?

That's what you're going with?

If you see something as crazy as "Virtanen is a better prospect than Tij Iginla " the onus is on you to prove the claim.

 

[biturbo19]

If you see something as crazy as "Virtanen is a better prospect than Tij Iginla " the onus is on you to prove the claim.

1) That's not what i claimed.

2) What you say about my opinion on prospects has zero bearing on the quality of that prospects in question.


Can you actually explain what it is that Tiggy does that makes him a much much better prospect than Virtanen was, such that it is so outrageous you feel compelled to resort to ad hominem attacks on anyone who even dares ask you to define it?

Or you just want to continue to take a run at me instead of actually discussing the prospects?



I think you're letting hindsight bias severely distort your view of what Virtanen was as a prospect. He, like Iginla, had plenty of red flags and questionmarks and played a very similar style of game...but had even more "projectable" tools. Widely regarded as a Top-10 prospect in a strong draft.

 

[Tuna99]

For me Iginla all day every day. Demidov apparently has an attitude problem and Tij is an Iginla - Gorton built a soft team in NY and he’s doing the same in MTL

 

[Baksfamous112]

For me Iginla all day every day. Demidov apparently has an attitude problem and Tij is an Iginla - Gorton built a soft team in NY and he’s doing the same in MTL

Care to point me toward your source about Demidov having an attitude problem?

Also, Gorton isn’t building that team. KH is

 

[Tuna99]

Care to point me toward your source about Demidov having an attitude problem?

Also, Gorton isn’t building that team. KH is

They share the same philosophy, if Gorton spoke French he’d be in charge.

Time will tell with Demidov but in Ottawa the analyst said they heard he had an attitude and not in a good way - and passing an Iginla for any Russian to me is dumb. This idea that Montrealnis going to build around euros who’ll like the culture in Montral won’t work - they always won with Canadien and Quebec players - as an Ottawa fan I was happy to see them draft Demidov and pas on Iginla

 

[Baksfamous112]

They share the same philosophy, if Gorton spoke French he’d be in charge.

Time will tell with Demidov but in Ottawa the analyst said they heard he had an attitude and not in a good way - and passing an Iginla for any Russian to me is dumb. This idea that Montrealnis going to build around euros who’ll like the culture in Montral won’t work - they always won with Canadien and Quebec players - as an Ottawa fan I was happy to see them draft Demidov and pas on Iginla

Funny because everyone in Montreal said that the reason they were so high on Demidvo was because of his positive attitude. Could you link me to the article of that "analyst" you're referring to?

As an Ottawa fan, you should consider trading Stutzle since he's European and apparently you don't win with those players. As for the bolded, so did we in Montreal.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I always like to say, let's wait and see what they can do at the NHL level. Some players maybe more talented, but some can either last long or perform way better than the more skilled player.

But if I'm picking on I take Iginla. I find he reminds me a lot of Matthew Tkachuk, Demidov could turn out the better player, but I still take Iginla.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I always like to say, let's wait and see what they can do at the NHL level. Some players maybe more talented, but some can either last long or perform way better than the more skilled player.

But if I'm picking on I take Iginla. I find he reminds me a lot of Matthew Tkachuk, Demidov could turn out the better player, but I still take Iginla.

I'm not saying you're wrong regarding the bolded but Tkachuk had 107 points in 57 games in its draft year. Iginla 84 points in 64 games. They are definitely not in the same tier when it comes to offensive talent.

 

[kp61c]

demidov is in a different stratosphere in terms of talent. this thread remids me of a poll where it's was pretty even between girgensons and kucherov, the same level of craziness.

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