If your Gretzky, crosby, staal, or spezza

[joe_shannon_1983*]

Here is who I would pick as of right now for Team Canada:

Lemieux - Sakic - Iginla
Gagne - Thornton - Heatley
Smyth - Lecavalier - St.Louis
Doan - Richards - Bertuzzi
Draper

Pronger - Blake
Niedermayer - Foote
Redden - Jovanovski
McCabe

Brodeur
Luongo
Theodore

This team is strong in every area.

There are really no weaknesses, such as weaknesses in grit, leadership, experience, or versatility.

And perceived strengths, such as strengths in skill and talent, are preserved as there is still an abundance of skill and talent present on this team.

 

[Clutch Mediocrity]

Easily Spezza.

Crosby has the best potential of the 3 but is also clearly the worst of the as right of now. This is a short tourney and you pick the best players possible when you're as good as Canada is both with young and more etablished talent. Let him grow in the NHL. That's a good league too, you know. Experience for the future some people say? You don't think Spezza/Staal will play huge parts for Canada in the next few yearsa aswell? Basically it should be Spezza vs. Staal. That's damn close no matter how you look at it (IMO Spezza is the better player). But one of the two can be placed with lock winger Dany Heatley and be sure to have tons of chemistry. That should seal it.

 

[Canuck21t]

You don't leave off gritty, experienced, wingers like Bertuzzi or Doan to take a bunch of finesse, inexperienced, centres like Crosby, Spezza, or Staal. Especially when you have already got players who play the exact same role as Crosby, Spezza, and Staal.

In order to make the best team possible, you need to have scorers, playmakers, leadership, experience, grittiness, and everything else. You can't have a bunch of scorers and playmakers, but have no experience or grittiness, and expect to give yourself the best chance to win.

Bertuzzi isn't gritty anymore, he is as gentle as a lamb this season. If he's on the team, it would be because of reputation. Even with Crosby, Spezza, and Staal, the experience would still be there with Sakic, Gagne, Iginla and Smythe. Maybe grittiness is what is lacking a bit at offense but I think that grit is very much overrated. Let's also not forget that we can have experience and grit from our defense.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Here is who I would pick as of right now for Team Canada:

Lemieux - Sakic - Iginla
Gagne - Thornton - Heatley
Smyth - Lecavalier - St.Louis
Doan - Richards - Bertuzzi
Draper

Pronger - Blake
Niedermayer - Foote
Redden - Jovanovski
McCabe

Brodeur
Luongo
Theodore

This team is strong in every area.

There are really no weaknesses, such as weaknesses in grit, leadership, experience, or versatility.

And perceived strengths, such as strengths in skill and talent, are preserved as there is still an abundance of skill and talent present on this team.

I 99% agree with your lineup.

On mine though I have Speeza with Gagne and Heatley. Richards on the left with Vinny and stlouis and Smyth with Thornton and Bert. No Doan.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

Bertuzzi isn't gritty anymore, he is as gentle as a lamb this season. If he's on the team, it would be because of reputation. Even with Crosby, Spezza, and Staal, the experience would still be there with Sakic, Gagne, Iginla and Smythe. Maybe grittiness is what is lacking a bit at offense but I think that grit is very much overrated. Let's also not forget that we can have experience and grit from our defense.

That is true, there still would be a lot of experience with Sakic, Gagne, Iginla, and Smyth. However, I believe that you can never have too much experience. So while they would have some experience up front, it would obviously help to have as much as possible, assuming the guys that you take for experience can play at a high level (which guys like Lemieux, St.Louis, and Doan can).

I somewhat disagree with you saying that grittiness can be over-rated. Grittiness does not guarantee a championship, but grittiness is very important nonetheless. Have you ever heard of the phrase, "too many chiefs, and not enough indians"? You can't simply have a bunch of offensive chiefs on your team. You need to have some indians on your team willing to sacrifice their bodies in order to gain puck possession. What good is it to have a bunch of offensive wizards if there is nobody on their line willing to go into the corners or fight along the boards in order to get them the puck? What good is it to have a bunch of offensive wizards if your team can't retrieve the puck after losing it?

 

[Don Draper]

Bertuzzi isn't gritty anymore, he is as gentle as a lamb this season. If he's on the team, it would be because of reputation. Even with Crosby, Spezza, and Staal, the experience would still be there with Sakic, Gagne, Iginla and Smythe. Maybe grittiness is what is lacking a bit at offense but I think that grit is very much overrated. Let's also not forget that we can have experience and grit from our defense.

if Bertuzzi makes it by reputation, the same could be said of St Louis as well who has a long way to go before hes back to the player from his mvp season. For me, it would be a bigger joke having St Louis on the team than it would be having Bertuzzi.

 

[Kesler Kills Kommies]

Here is who I would pick as of right now for Team Canada:

Lemieux - Sakic - Iginla
Gagne - Thornton - Heatley
Smyth - Lecavalier - St.Louis
Doan - Richards - Bertuzzi
Draper

Pronger - Blake
Niedermayer - Foote
Redden - Jovanovski
McCabe

Brodeur
Luongo
Theodore

This team is strong in every area.

There are really no weaknesses, such as weaknesses in grit, leadership, experience, or versatility.

And perceived strengths, such as strengths in skill and talent, are preserved as there is still an abundance of skill and talent present on this team.

Heatley should be no1 RW while Iginla is only worth second line RW

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

Heatley should be no1 RW while Iginla is only worth second line RW

Yeah, I understand. I wasn't really putting them in order of lines 1-4. All lines will each get plenty of ice-time. There really isn't any difference between lines 1-4.

Line #1 might be line #4 in some games, and vice versa. It will all depend on which line is having the 'hot hand' in any given game.

 

[Kesler Kills Kommies]

Yeah, I understand. I wasn't really putting them in order of lines 1-4. All lines will each get plenty of ice-time. There really isn't any difference between lines 1-4.

Line #1 might be line #4 in some games, and vice versa. It will all depend on which line is having the 'hot hand' in any given game.

yeah, that make sense

i hope Bertuzzi can really catch on fire during those games and get his confident back, vancouver would really want him back as a power forward

 

[JD1]

All 3 guys are playing well and we have a few so called locks for the team that are not playing well at all. The Thornton and St Louis spots should be in jeopardy IMO. Thornton was invisible last night, Spezza was dominant.

4 centers - Sakic, Lecavalier, Richards and Spezza, put Crosby on the wing or in the press box and buy St. Louis and Thornton some new TVs where they can be spectators as they have been thus far into this season.

 

[Sens Rule]

I disagree completely. If anything, Crosby is the one player of the 3 that can be moved to the wing which will be very important in making this team. As much as I love Spezza, and as good as Staal has been, they arent making this lineup as a center which might be sad, but who do you kick off? Crosby's points may be lower, but hes been on fire in the past month and does it all. He would be the who I choose of the 3, based on need and adaptability.

Good to see another Sens fan not be a homer. Crosby will be on the team. There is no doubt in my mind. I think he is just plain better than Spezza or Staal right now. And I am a huge Sens fan and think Staal is great this year. As the season goes on Crosby will be get better and better. It would be nice to see Spezza with Heatley and I think that we actually will see both Crosby and Spezza on the team. But Crosby will be the first choice of the 2.

 

[SPORTSMANIAC]

As a hockey fan I have no problem with any of these three on the Team. I am reading alot of posters say if Crosby gets on it is politics. What if he ends up on the team and is a top three in points on Canada will it be because he was on the team because politics and he got lucky and caught on fire during the games or he has the skills to play on the best international team and against the World's best at the age of 18? Back to orginal question hopefully as a USA fan hopefully it will be Yzerman and Mario over Staal, Spezza, and Crosby.

 

[therealdeal]

Good point, although you could've expressed yourself differently.

To clarify; they won't be regarded and referred to as the same way as Crosby is.

In case you've missed it, Crosby is supposed to be Canada's new wünderkid. Spezza and Staal, although superb, elite players, just don't have the same status and probably won't be.

Because this far, Crosby is living up to the hype. He's a rookie .. imagine if an 18-year old could be there to win the Olympics in Torino (OT: I might be going there btw) ...

That would be cool.

Forgot that swears get bleeped out, I wasn't trying to diss you, its just that swears are part of my daily dialouge, no offense was meant.

You've better clarified your argument in this post, and I definetly agree more-so with it, however you would probably agree they'll all be key components in 2010 anyways, so its pretty much win-win with any guy you go with.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Crosby has the best potential of the 3 but is also clearly the worst of the as right of now.

i strongly disagree. I would take crosby over both of them right now. If he was on a team that actually tried to win, he would be up with spezza and staal atop the scoring race.

Crosby makes the players around him so much better. Spezza and Stall are both great players, but do not have the same effect imho.

 

[Oilerfan120582]

I believe that after last night's game, Jason Spezza has now taken over the NHL scoring lead with 41 points. I like Crosby and Staal, but Spezza is amazing.

 

[Viflux]

Comparing Eric Staal, Jason Spezza, and Sidney Crosby at this point is rather useless.

Staal plays for a talent-deprived, overachieving team. Spezza plays for a talent-rich, dominant team. Crosby plays for a talent-rich, underachieving team.

One could easily suggest that Crosby would have better numbers than Spezza if their current situations were reversed.

Personally, I think all three should be on the team based on performances this season. I know guys like Sakic and Richards are quite likely locks for the team, even though they haven't performed up to expectations. In my opinion, that's not a good thing.

I also think the idea of taking a 'defensive specialist' or 'defensive line' is absurd. Other countries are struggling to fill in lineups with players that can compete on that level. It pains me to see Kris Draper on the team. Do you think the Russian team is trying to find defensive specialists to play against other teams top lines?

I figure the best line in the entire tournament will come from one of Sweden or Russia. I have no problems playing our top line (Let's say Thornton, Gagne, and Iginla) against any trio anyone else can put out there.

Our strength lies in our depth. By rolling four offensively gifted, talented, and speedy lines, no team will be able to consistently ice defensive speicalists. It will be impossible to shutdown an entire 12-man forward unit.

 

[Big Phil]

All 3 guys are playing well and we have a few so called locks for the team that are not playing well at all. The Thornton and St Louis spots should be in jeopardy IMO. Thornton was invisible last night, Spezza was dominant.

4 centers - Sakic, Lecavalier, Richards and Spezza, put Crosby on the wing or in the press box and buy St. Louis and Thornton some new TVs where they can be spectators as they have been thus far into this season.

Thornton a spectator? You do mean Joe Thornton dont you? He's been playing just fine this year. No matter what role you put Joe into he'll thrive. he was a checking centre at the "04 World Cup and he was more dangerous offensively than anyone. St. Louis is just now starting to pick up his game and to me he'll be more valuable than Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi has done nothing since '03. He's a shadow of his former self right now.

Anyways, Staal Spezza and Crosby are all tough and we've all been thinking of them a lot this year, but to me this is a good problem. There wont be a wrong answer no matter who you pick. Although one of them is going to be the "Thornton" of '02. One of them no matter what is going to be left at home and it could be Spezza who is leading the league in scoring. Imagine that. Imangine having a team so good you cant even find room for the leading scorer! So to me this is exiciting.

Sakic Lecavalier Richards and Thornton are locks. Iginla, Heatley, Gagne are locks. That's seven for sure. St. Louis, Lemieux, Nash, Smyth, and a chekcer of either Draper or Peca will be semi-locks. That's twelve spots. That leaves one open and I'm just gald I dont have to make that decision. That is unless Gretzky fall on his "heart" and picks Yzerman for the heck of it. Imagine the pandemoniun there. Spezza the leading scorer in the NHL stays home while a 40 year old 3 goal scorer goes to Italy. Yikes!

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

Thornton a spectator? You do mean Joe Thornton dont you? He's been playing just fine this year. No matter what role you put Joe into he'll thrive. he was a checking centre at the "04 World Cup and he was more dangerous offensively than anyone. St. Louis is just now starting to pick up his game and to me he'll be more valuable than Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi has done nothing since '03. He's a shadow of his former self right now.

Anyways, Staal Spezza and Crosby are all tough and we've all been thinking of them a lot this year, but to me this is a good problem. There wont be a wrong answer no matter who you pick. Although one of them is going to be the "Thornton" of '02. One of them no matter what is going to be left at home and it could be Spezza who is leading the league in scoring. Imagine that. Imangine having a team so good you cant even find room for the leading scorer! So to me this is exiciting.

Sakic Lecavalier Richards and Thornton are locks. Iginla, Heatley, Gagne are locks. That's seven for sure. St. Louis, Lemieux, Nash, Smyth, and a chekcer of either Draper or Peca will be semi-locks. That's twelve spots. That leaves one open and I'm just gald I dont have to make that decision. That is unless Gretzky fall on his "heart" and picks Yzerman for the heck of it. Imagine the pandemoniun there. Spezza the leading scorer in the NHL stays home while a 40 year old 3 goal scorer goes to Italy. Yikes!

I agree with most everything you say, with one exception. And that exception is: Nash.

What has he done this season, or done in the past, to deserve "semi-lock" status?

I had this same argument a little while ago, and it ended in a stalemate, so I don't expect this discussion to be any different.

However, I feel obliged to once again throw my two cents into the Nash topic.

The guy has only ever scored 57 points in his career-best season. True he had 41 goals one time, but the value of a player is not how many goals they score individually, but how many goals they help their team score as a whole. Now while being a good goal scorer certainly helps your team score goals as a whole, so does helping your team-mates score. And Nash fails miserably at that. Why not take a guy who is competent as a goal scorer, but also a lot better playmaker? A 25-50-70 guy or a 30-45-75 guy is going to help your team a lot more than a 40-15-55 guy ever will. Especially if they also are able to contribute in other ways besides offense, which Nash can't but some 25-50-70 or a 30-45-75 guys can.

Nash's best season is 57 points. Spezza is almost already past that in merely 1/4 of a season. It would be a shame if Nash gets on the team, and Spezza doesn't.

You say Bertuzzi has done "nothing" since the 2003 season? That may be true, when you compare what was expected out of him with what he has actually done. But even if Bertuzzi has done "nothing", "nothing" in Todd Bertuzzi standards still surpasses Nash's best.

Nash is a guy with no track record at being a all-around offensive threat. He is a guy with no track record at being an all-around player. He is a guy with no track record at being a winner or a leader.

Canada has an infinite amount of guys who have track records in all of those things, or at least guys who have track records in at least some of those things.

And this does not even consider the fact that Nash has been injured this season. For one, you don't know how healthy he will be during the Olympics, thus you don't know how he will contribute. For two, you slap in the face a bunch of guys who have had good seasons by leaving them off in favour of someone who has 0 points in 3 games played this season and with no track record (less than 100 career points).

Nash has no place on the 2006 Olympic Team in my opinion. Not when you consider the superior players that you would leaving off by taking a one-dimensional injured player like Nash.

Perhaps Nash will be ready and able by the time the 2010 Olympics roll around. He is young enough that he will get chances in the future to prove that he has what it takes to deserve a spot on the Canadian Olympic Team.

 

[NyQuil]

Crosby makes the players around him so much better. Spezza and Stall are both great players, but do not have the same effect imho.

I may agree that Crosby would play the wing better than Staal and certainly Spezza, and may be a better selection, but making those around him better is PRECISELY what Spezza does.

How else do you get 117 points in the AHL playing with guys like Brandon Bochenski?

 

[Viflux]

How else do you get 117 points in the AHL playing with guys like Brandon Bochenski?

By playing in a league where you had no business playing.

The AHL is a league for developing players and borderline NHL'ers. Spezza put up great numbers in limited icetime in 03-04, and had proved that he could be a top NHL player. It was the coaching staff that lacked faith in him and held him up.

Look at his stats compared to his icetime in 03-04. He would have had his "breakout" season then had he been getting 22 minutes a game.

For the record, he had 55 points in 03-04, despite 14 and a half minutes.

Spezza had more points per minute of icetime in 03-04 than Ilya Kovalchuk.

That's why he dominated the AHL.

 

[NyQuil]

By playing in a league where you had no business playing.

The AHL is a league for developing players and borderline NHL'ers. Spezza put up great numbers in limited icetime in 03-04, and had proved that he could be a top NHL player. It was the coaching staff that lacked faith in him and held him up.

Look at his stats compared to his icetime in 03-04. He would have had his "breakout" season then had he been getting 22 minutes a game.

For the record, he had 55 points in 03-04, despite 14 and a half minutes.

Spezza had more points per minute of icetime in 03-04 than Ilya Kovalchuk.

That's why he dominated the AHL.

Sure, but you haven't really refuted my point that he makes those around him better.

You're actually in violent agreement with me.

 

[Captain_Cunney]

Crosby by a mile
but even they are all center, i think you can move one or two to LW or RW

What exactly do you base this comment on? While I'm not going to argue that he will be the best of the 3 in 5 years, what exactly makes him better right now? To me, he is currently 3rd on the list of Spezza, Staal, Crosby. That being said, I'm hoping all 3 make the team, they all deserve it.

 

[JD1]

Thornton a spectator? You do mean Joe Thornton dont you? He's been playing just fine this year. No matter what role you put Joe into he'll thrive.

I most certainly did mean Joe Thornton. And his being traded this week would pretty much give you a good understanding of what those who watch him most think of him. Joe has world class talent but lacks in many areas.

fast forward to the 2010 Olympics. Thornton will be 30-31. Crosby will play centre. Guaranteed. Assuming Spezza and Staal are better players in their mid 20s than they are now, it is hard to imagine them not being on that team as centers. It is also hard for me to imagine them not being better than Thornton at that time.

Thornton's play has been anything but inspirational. Spezza is leading the NHL in scoring and we are getting to the 1/3 pole. He definitely plays with some talent but he contributes to the numbers those guys put up. I have a hard time with Joe in and Spezza out. Joe in and Staal out is easier to see but I still not sure I like that either.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

I most certainly did mean Joe Thornton. And his being traded this week would pretty much give you a good understanding of what those who watch him most think of him. Joe has world class talent but lacks in many areas.

fast forward to the 2010 Olympics. Thornton will be 30-31. Crosby will play centre. Guaranteed. Assuming Spezza and Staal are better players in their mid 20s than they are now, it is hard to imagine them not being on that team as centers. It is also hard for me to imagine them not being better than Thornton at that time.

Thornton's play has been anything but inspirational. Spezza is leading the NHL in scoring and we are getting to the 1/3 pole. He definitely plays with some talent but he contributes to the numbers those guys put up. I have a hard time with Joe in and Spezza out. Joe in and Staal out is easier to see but I still not sure I like that either.

Uh yeah.

But the problem is, we are trying to build a team to win for 2006, not 2010.

So even if all of those players are better by 2010 it is irrelevant when deciding the 2006 Olympic Team.

Picking players for the 2006 Olympic Team based on how good they might be by 2010 is nonsense. A deep country like Canada should be bringing their absolute best players at every tournament, not the players who have the best potential.

And right now, Thornton is better than Crosby, Spezza, or Staal.

 

[JD1]

And right now, Thornton is better than Crosby, Spezza, or Staal.

did you see that Boston Ottawa game last week? I have seen the two of them on the ice together in a few games this year and he certainly did not outshine Spezza in those games. Very much the other way around actually. I've seen a few Boston Habs games this year as well. Joe didn't impress in those.

Maybe he looks good in an SJ jersey but I don't know, I didn't see that game.

Joe Thornton has a big name. His play this year is uninspired. Spezza and Crosby look very good. My reference to 2010 was that is Joe isn't likely to be there then and given the play of a few youngsters, Canada doesn't seem to need him now.

And I never would have made this argument 2 months ago. I would have penciled Joe in as a lock and the idea of any of the 3 youngsters on that team would have been laughable. But Joe hasn't earned his spot and the kids have been mighty impressive.