If you were the GM.....Crosby, Ovechkin, Or McDavid?

[Mrfenn92]

Sid for me

 

[TheLegend27]

I agree with your theory on paper. Problem is, I already know with those players and Crosby i'm winning multiple cups. Probably should, isn't the same as guaranteed. Maybe Mcdavid goes down as the better player in history, i'll take the proven cup winner at this point.

Thing is - you don’t know with absolute certainty if you’re winning a cup drafting by Crosby. Crosby’s teammates were absolutely crucial and stepped up at the right time(Flower, Malkin, Letang, Kessel etc). You don’t know if the other players on your team will step up the same way. 13 points in 19 games from Crosby during those finals wins won’t do it unless others step up big time. I have a hard time seeing McDavid not winning cups in place of Crosby in Pittsburg, all things equal.

If McDavid was a bad performer in the playoffs you’d have a fair point.

 

[authentic]

Lemieux played in a era that was far easier to score in. Again, read the stats I provided:

During Lemieux's first 15 NHL seasons, there were ninety 50 goal seasons.

During Ovechkin's first 15 NHL seasons, there were twenty-two 50 goal seasons (despite there being far more players).

Accounting for scoring environment differences is not "made up stats."

Adjusted Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Explaination of hockey stats adjusted for the era the games were played in.

www.hockey-reference.com

And doesn’t Ovechkin have like half of them?

 

[authentic]

If your management is competent, I would say McDavid. He is the true heir to Mario/Wayne, Edmonton's various management groups are just ass.

If you look at years in which Crosby had poor goaltending (like when MAF was bad for a few years there), they also went out in round 1/2 basically every year. McDavid does more with less (assuming Malkin = Draisaitl, but even there I think it's a slight edge to Malkin because he can drive his own line offense 5 on 5 a bit better than Drai).

McDavid also plays a lot more with Draisaitl at ES. Helps pad his stats a bit more compared to what Crosby usually had to work with outside the powerplay.

 

[nuxnux1]

1 crosby no need to explain
2a ovie(cup and gonna break all time goals record)
2b McDavid

McDavid is the most talented but as it stands right now this is the list imo. Can revisit at the end of their careers.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Thing is - you don’t know with absolute certainty if you’re winning a cup drafting by Crosby. Crosby’s teammates were absolutely crucial and stepped up at the right time(Flower, Malkin, Letang, Kessel etc). You don’t know if the other players on your team will step up the same way. 13 points in 19 games from Crosby during those finals wins won’t do it unless others step up big time. I have a hard time seeing McDavid not winning cups in place of Crosby in Pittsburg, all things equal.

If McDavid was a bad performer in the playoffs you’d have a fair point.

14 points in 19 games*

 

[daver]

Thing is - you don’t know with absolute certainty if you’re winning a cup drafting by Crosby. Crosby’s teammates were absolutely crucial and stepped up at the right time(Flower, Malkin, Letang, Kessel etc). You don’t know if the other players on your team will step up the same way. 13 points in 19 games from Crosby during those finals wins won’t do it unless others step up big time. I have a hard time seeing McDavid not winning cups in place of Crosby in Pittsburg, all things equal.

All things being equal, meaning equal amount of games played, Crosby arguably would have the better regular season resume than McDavid after 10 seasons. While being the notably superior 2-way player.

 

[daver]

Thing is - you don’t know with absolute certainty if you’re winning a cup drafting by Crosby. Crosby’s teammates were absolutely crucial and stepped up at the right time(Flower, Malkin, Letang, Kessel etc). You don’t know if the other players on your team will step up the same way. 13 points in 19 games from Crosby during those finals wins won’t do it unless others step up big time. I have a hard time seeing McDavid not winning cups in place of Crosby in Pittsburg, all things equal.

Crosby won the Conn Smythe over Kessel on the strength of his SCF in 2016 so maybe looking at points only isn't the be all, end all of evaluation.

The same way that McDavid's 11 points in the SCF need context. He was as good as Crosby was in his first SCF, arguably worse as Crosby produced in Game 3 early enough to get a win and to at least give the Pens a better chance. McDavid got his team within two games of the Cup with a great game 5, Crosby did the same also in Game 5.

 

[TheLegend27]

Crosby won the Conn Smythe over Kessel on the strength of his SCF in 2016 so maybe looking at points only isn't the be all, end all of evaluation.

The same way that McDavid's 11 points in the SCF need context. He was as good as Crosby was in his first SCF, arguably worse as Crosby produced in Game 3 early enough to get a win and to at least give the Pens a better chance. McDavid got his team within two games of the Cup with a great game 5, Crosby did the same also in Game 5.

I don’t have a problem using defense and two assists in game 6 to justify the 2016 Conn Smyth, it’s just that the level Crosby played to win that year was of a regular top 10-15 player. Even though Crosby was great in 2008 Hossa actually lead the team with 7 points. Meanwhile McDavid had the luxury of… Warren Foegele being his most productive teammate. With the current roster construction, I just don’t see McDavid winning by being shut down like Crosby was in 2009 finals. The only time 87 lost out despite a historic effort was 2018, and how many times have we seen McDavid lose like that?. Too many.

 

[daver]

I don’t have a problem using defense and two assists in game 6 to justify the 2016 Conn Smyth, it’s just that the level Crosby played to win that year was of a regular top 10-15 player. Even though Crosby was great in 2008 Hossa actually lead the team with 7 points. Meanwhile McDavid had the luxury of… Warren Foegele being his most productive teammate. With the current roster construction, I just don’t see McDavid winning by being shut down like Crosby was in 2009 finals. The only time 87 lost out despite a historic effort was 2018, and how many times have we seen McDavid lose like that?. Too many.

You talk about stepping up at the right time. That's exactly what he did on that run for a team that was one of the best Cup winners of the era. His job was to match the other team's usually loaded #1 lines so the Pens could roll three scoring lines. He did this with a career 3rd liner and an AHL callup who was terrible defensively.

It was similar to Crosby's 2014 Olympics where he was the centrepiece of the most dominant Olympic winner in the NHL era.

 

[wetcoast]

16 people choosing Ovi here....why exactly?

I guess the positive thing is that it's only 8% and we all know a lot of people with interesting ideas so there is that.

 

[TheLegend27]

16 people choosing Ovi here....why exactly?

I guess the positive thing is that it's only 8% and we all know a lot of people with interesting ideas so there is that.

If we’re being honest peak/prime Ovi is absolutely on the level of the other two, and is arguably better than peak Crosby. It’s just that his prime lasted 2006-2010 following a significant drop off afterwards. After 2010 he’s still a top player, but 97 & 87 sustained a higher level of play for much longer. Prime Ovi caps had significant roster deficiencies and kept on getting knocked out while putting up 40-50 shot games. If he maintains his 2006-2010 level of play until 2013ish we have a very real conversation.

 

[zenthusiast]

McDavid is the best player here. If I get crosby’s guaranteed cups, he’s the obvious choice, but I don’t think that’s an interesting way to assess this

 

[daver]

McDavid is the best player here. If I get crosby’s guaranteed cups, he’s the obvious choice, but I don’t think that’s an interesting way to assess this

How so?

 

[zenthusiast]

How so?

Relative hockey ability, skill, quality, levels of dawg in them

 

[daver]

Relative hockey ability, skill, quality, levels of dawg in them

Which translates into what? Crosby was as dominant as McDavid offensively through their first ten years, Crosby was just unlucky with injuries which cost him some trophies.

 

[zenthusiast]

Which translates into what? Crosby was as dominant as McDavid offensively through their first ten years, Crosby was just unlucky with injuries which cost him some trophies.

It translates into being the best player, hence the post. Don’t agree with your read on it

 

[dr robbie]

I got to have a discussion with a GM and head coach before and quickly realized that their entire mindset is on $$$. Whether that's selling tickets, making the playoffs, or whatever, it all boils down to increasing the revenue. Winning is just one way to get there, but is a means to the end.

That said, I'd have to go with Crosby. Ovi and McDavid are obviously great players as well, but Crosby sold seats and hype for nearly 2 decades. He'd be my team's golden goose.

 

[daver]

It translates into being the best player, hence the post. Don’t agree with your read on it

You are contradicting yourself. You said he was better in relative hockey skill, not that he played more games.

On a per game basis, their offensive dominance is almost the same. So how can you argue McDavid is better, at least offensively?

 

[zenthusiast]

You are contradicting yourself. You said he was better in relative hockey skill, not that he played more games.

On a per game basis, their offensive dominance is almost the same. So how can you argue McDavid is better, at least offensively?

You’ll find with a quick review that I in fact didn’t say anything about games played whatsoever, simply that I don’t agree with you

I hope this grants you clarity and peace

 

[daver]

You’ll find with a quick review that I in fact didn’t say anything about games played whatsoever, simply that I don’t agree with you

I hope this grants you clarity and peace

One would think that the "best player" would prove that through their performances right?

 

[zenthusiast]

One would think that the "best player" would prove that through their performances right?

Yes, and he has.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin. Obviously I’m a huge Ovi fan and he’s the most marketable of the three but the center position is so important and finding an All-World center you can build around for 15 years is just too good of an opportunity to pass up if you’re building a team from scratch.

 

[wetcoast]

If we’re being honest peak/prime Ovi is absolutely on the level of the other two, and is arguably better than peak Crosby. It’s just that his prime lasted 2006-2010 following a significant drop off afterwards.

All 3 have really good epaks or put another way sustained long consecutive games where they were elite but staying power matters and Crosby/McDavid don't have the lows that Ovechkin has.

After 2010 he’s still a top player, but 97 & 87 sustained a higher level of play for much longer. Prime Ovi caps had significant roster deficiencies and kept on getting knocked out while putting up 40-50 shot games.

Exactly sustained primes for 10 and 20 years is simply better than a 3 year epak then some other goal scoring seasons.

If he maintains his 2006-2010 level of play until 2013ish we have a very real conversation.

Sure but that's a big if, if Crosby doesn't get injured then it's not even a question and it really isn't even with the injuries.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

One would think that the "best player" would prove that through their performances right?

It's almost like a 40 point, Smythe winning and breaking a Gretzky record playoff run proved it huh?