If you love the USA

[misterchainsaw]

Grahame got scored on by being screened, on a 3 on 1 from a no-call from a check to the back, and an amazing shot that went right over his head, hit the crossbar, and went in.

IMO opinion he couldn't have stopped either of those, and neither could have the other two goalies.

He looked good and made some really good saves, it's moreso our defense that let those in, not Grahame.

If you're screened....5-hole goals shouldn't happen. You're supposed to close up and go into butterfly, make yourself as big as possible with no holes when you know the shot is coming and you can't see it.

 

[blitzkriegs]

However, that is no excuse to lose to Latvia. and the US lost to Latvia.

When did the US lose to Latvia as you pointed out, not once, but twice, in your diatribe?

 

[Osprey]

The USA tying Latvia had nothing to do with the goaltender. People should really drop the Ryan Miller business. The bottom line is that the USA, with all of their scoring talent, should've scored more than only 3 goals against Latvia. I see the issue as chemistry and preparedness. If they don't beat Kazakhstan handedly, then I'd point fingers.

 

[nomorekids]

There is a search posts by user feature if you'd like to use it.

I'm sure you knew that already though.

Is it normal for moderators to make personal statements off the topic of the thread?

It is topical, completely. You started another thread bemoaning the fact that Miller was not initially named and that he's not starting. I just made a casual observation.

 

[ILuvLA]

I agree, drop the Miller argument. Today's tie was a team tie - not just the goaltender's fault. I'd add jet lag in to equation as most of the US players did not arrive until Tuesday. Let's see how the next game goes, then start pointing fingers again.

 

[Higgy4]

Miller wasn't the goalie everyone knows him for now when they made up this team. Laviolette is the worst coach ever, yes, and this team is missing a few key points that are just as evident as ever in this game. Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows. Grahame shouldn't be starting and Esche better be in net the rest of the way.

Ok, you say that the team is old and it shows. And then you say that Leetch should be on it?

That doesnt make any sense. Sure, he is younger than Chelios. But Chelios and Hatcher are the only defensmen on this team with any kind of grit. Miller's injury was a killer, IMO. Leetch wouldnt make a difference on this team. Not at this point in his career.

 

[Higgy4]

"If you love the USA" - why don't you cheer for the guys over there? There have been months to debate about who should or shouldn't be there, it's been beaten to death, how about we focus on the games?

Right on the money!

Latvia played well. The US looked rusty. Big deal, it happens.

There is still alot of hockey left to play.

 

[SopelFan*]

Yeah, Laviolette is a terrible coach... no wonder he is in top spot in the NHL.

 

[DownFromNJ]

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"

 

[Higgy4]

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"

Wow...could you possibly be any more of a homer?

And Rafalski sat out with a minor injury. Atleast from what I have heard. He wasnt a healthy scratch or anything like that.

 

[nomorekids]

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"

I want to make fun of you...but....your "Luke" avatar prohibits me from doing so.

 

[btn]

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

The US dominated Latvia other than the score.

What exactly did Grahame do so badly? He gave up one bad rebound? The deflection goal would have been tough on any goalie, and the 2 on 1 was a perfectly placed shot by the Latvian.

Perhaps later in the tournament the Millerites will have some legitimate beef with US goaltending, but not after this game.

 

[Corto]

Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.

Miller started that game for the Sabres, they won 2-1 in a SO ... That's the game in question, right?

But yeah, he was injured when he was suppose to be making his case for the team, I'm not really blaming Waddell on that alone, I just think some of Esche's comments were out of place, and that alone should have given Waddell food for thought.

As for Latvia, they're a notch above Italy and Kazakhstan, you can compare them to Germany, who had a good game vs the Czechs, even without their two best forwards in Hecht and Sturm.
Germany and Latvia can compete with the top teams if the top teams don't have time to build chemistry and they get off the plane the day before the game. And it showed.
Latvia has a goalie who was a solid #1 in the NHL, two NHL defensemen (both real good in their own way) and a bunch of guys playing in the RSL and the DSL.
If you want to compare, they're probably what a top AHL team is to a good NHL team, in terms of where they are compared to the big 7. So, while they will lost a vast majority of games, and most of them won't be even close, they can make an upset sometimes.
A few years ago, IIRC, they beat a Russian team filled with big names in the World Championship in Russia.

No reason to panic for the USA yet, IMO.

 

[joshjull]

The US dominated Latvia other than the score.

What exactly did Grahame do so badly? He gave up one bad rebound? The deflection goal would have been tough on any goalie, and the 2 on 1 was a perfectly placed shot by the Latvian.

Perhaps later in the tournament the Millerites will have some legitimate beef with US goaltending, but not after this game.

I am a Millerite and just got back from our meeting. We have agreed to continue to cheer for the US but only for now. BTW Chris Drury should get more ice time and be named captain.

 

[Butchered]

I don't think Grahame played any worse than the rest of the team.

I heard Melrose saying how the fact that everyone was delayed, and had the issues with actually getting over there would have only meant something if they lost to a team like Sweden or Russia. I think that all the delays had a lot to do with the overall effort of the team today.

All this Miller talk is just getting disgusting. Yes, he should have been on the team. You're not going to find many who won't agree with that, but he ISN'T. That needs to be accepted. There are some people who just don't seem to understand that.

The team as a whole doesn't have what it takes to compete with the Russias, Canadas, and Czechs of the world. Someone else in goal won't change that. Regardless of what your impression might be.

I still think Grahame is the best option of those at the disposal of the US. The only way two of those goals get stopped is by a miracle. The Rick should start the next game, and then they should go from there.

Let's not take away from Irbe either. He was fantastic.

 

[MLH]

I still think Grahame is the best option of those at the disposal of the US. The only way two of those goals get stopped is by a miracle. The Rick should start the next game, and then they should go from there.

This is exactly what drives me crazy. It would have taken far from a miracle to stop any of the goals. He was barely tested all game.

 

[Sotnos]

Jesus christ I'm sick of these Ryan Miller threads. He's not on the team. Deal with it.

You and me both. I just noticed this thread and the level of bitterness is just astounding!! Pathetic, laughable and very very sad. Anyone who watched that game and blames Grahame for the tie really has no clue what they were looking at.

Unless you're planning on hiring someone to pull a Tonya Harding on one of the goalies that are on the roster, grow up and get over it.

 

[joshjull]

You and me both. I just noticed this thread and the level of bitterness is just astounding!! Pathetic, laughable and very very sad. Anyone who watched that game and blames Grahame for the tie really has no clue what they were looking at.

Unless you're planning on hiring someone to pull a Tonya Harding on one of the goalies that are on the roster, grow up and get over it.

2 were soft. You can criticize Grahame, it is allowed. You don't have to be bitter either to do it. The team struggled for obvious reasons.... got to Italy the night before and were exhausted and looked like a team that hadn't played together before, which there were. Regroup against the Khazaks and then get into the teeth of the early schedule. Millerite #35 signing off

USA USA USA USA

 

[Hockeyfan02]

The only problem I've had with the complaints are that the Miller fans are ignoring the defensive problems (multiple odd man rushes), the offense not scoring on Latvia with 2 NHL defenseman, and not giving credit to Grahame for making some key saves (save on the odd man rush just before the first US goal and another odd man rush save when it was 3-2 to keep the US in the game) while pinning the tie completely on Grahame. You can have your gripes with Grahame, but there were other problems yesterday for the US that should be looked at not just goaltending. I think we all agree Miller should be there, but there's nothing any of us can do about it. Just a lot of wasted energy complaining about him not being there. If Esche stays home like he said he was going to after he learned he was 3rd string, the problem would be solved.

 

[Shoalzie]

If they lay an egg against Kazakhstan tonight, I'll start to worry. Latvia played a spirited game yesterday and with the exception of a few minutes in the second, Team USA dominated that game. If they get two points tonight, I think they can get through without a problem if they can get 3 or 4 points in the final three games against the Group B's top tier.

 

[blueandgold*]

I'm glad Miller isn't on Team USA... the team is a joke anyway.....

Who wants our hot goalie getting his confidence shaken having to play behind that team.....

 

[btn]

2 were soft. You can criticize Grahame, it is allowed.

Which ones?

The one where a rebound went right on the stick of a waiting Latvian, the deflection in front that changed a long shot from the blue line right in front of him, or the laser from inside the circle to the top corner on a 2 on 1?

Irbe is the one who gave up two soft goals.

 

[Sotnos]

The only problem I've had with the complaints are that the Miller fans are ignoring the defensive problems (multiple odd man rushes), the offense not scoring on Latvia with 2 NHL defenseman, and not giving credit to Grahame for making some key saves (save on the odd man rush just before the first US goal and another odd man rush save when it was 3-2 to keep the US in the game) while pinning the tie completely on Grahame. You can have your gripes with Grahame, but there were other problems yesterday for the US that should be looked at not just goaltending. I think we all agree Miller should be there, but there's nothing any of us can do about it. Just a lot of wasted energy complaining about him not being there. If Esche stays home like he said he was going to after he learned he was 3rd string, the problem would be solved.

That sums it up. I don't care if people criticize Grahame (no one does it more than Tampa fans, duh) as long as it's LEGITIMATE. 90% of this thread is more of the same old whining about Miller not being there and criticizing Grahame because he's not Miller. The thought of Grahame being anyone's "golden boy" and being on the team due to "politics" are both just hilarious. From reading some of the threads on here lately, you'd think Miller is on par with Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, etc. Let's go for some perspective and objectivity.

Irbe is the one who gave up two soft goals.

True true. I can't believe the ones that actually went by him when compared to some of the stops he was making.

 

[Donnie D]

What's the old saying, you never lose on a second guess? It's real easy to say that Miller or anyone would have done better because they didn't play. The reality is that Miller might have had a shut out or he might have given up a dozen goals in his worst game of the year. We will never know what he would have done.

We do know that Grahame had a good, not outstanding, not awful game. He didn't steal one and he wasn't the reason the USA tied the game. Frankly the USA isn't as strong in goal as many of the other teams in the Olympics with or without Miller.

 

[primetime]

Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows.

Leetch is 36 and you want him and a youth movement? Make up your mind, man.