If the Leafs are rebuilding .. should Kessel be traded ? | Page 39 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

If the Leafs are rebuilding .. should Kessel be traded ?

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Great fishing in Florida...

Can everybody picture Kessel as a Panther playing in Florida. Just seems like a fit. Media pressure on him drops 99% and he doesn't have to be the face of the franchise.
If we only traded Phaneuf/Kessel I bet we could assemble a good core at the right positions.

Either way just get me Bennett to add to Rielly and I don't care what else they do for now.
 
There is space. The Leafs have 12 players signed with apx 21 to 22 million to spend this off season. And if you want to create space, you don't do it by trading your best player who just turned 26. You do it by moving out more easily replaced pieces like Lupul, Franson, Gunnarsson. Thank god the people who are actually in charge know better.

The cap looks like it's going to be high 60's so we have about 19 mil to spend on 10/11 players .

Franson's a rfa so he's not even on the cap
Gunner is on a great value deal and we have no one even close to replacing him internally and no one externally who could replace him will make less
Lupul is an injury prone aging wing and no one's taking him without giving salary

Poster's like you keep spewing utter non sense about how easy it is to move salary without even giving a second's thought to how many teams are cap strapped or why would they want our salary dumps.
 
I love watching Kessel score 30-35 goals, finish with a negative +/- and watch the playoff bubble leafs end up in 12th.

Clearly the status quo is going great.
Let's not change anything.

What does that have to do with the post you quoted? (p.s. it's 35-40 goals.) Who said we don't need to change anything?

still haven't heard any names.

who exactly are these mystery franchise players that will be better than Kessel I keep hearing about?
 
The cap looks like it's going to be high 60's so we have about 19 mil to spend on 10/11 players .

Franson's a rfa so he's not even on the cap
Gunner is on a great value deal and we have no one even close to replacing him internally and no one externally who could replace him will make less
Lupul is an injury prone aging wing and no one's taking him without giving salary

Lupul scored 23 goals in a down year. He's moveable. Even if they don't decide to move him, I'm happy to keep him. But that's a possibility if you need cap relief. Gunnarsson is moveable, and is easily replaced by someone who plays in the bottom pairing. Gunnarsson was often the source of a lot of the problems when it came to clearing the puck during prolonged defensive zone time. That 3 million is better spent elsewhere. My pointing out Franson was to the point that he doesn't need to be re signed, and is easily moved.

Poster's like you keep spewing utter non sense about how easy it is to move salary without even giving a second's thought to how many teams are cap strapped or why would they want our salary dumps.

Posters like me? You don't even know me.
 
Nobody is suggesting the status remain quo. And as for heavy lifting, Kessel has done his fair share. Are people really this blind?

Yep you're absolutely right! Kessel gave us one of the best/most valuable seasons of his career in terms of cap hit & production, so did Phaneuf. Bozak, Gunnarsson, Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClemment, Franson, Gleason are all also currently giving the Leafs the best seasons of their careers.

The result is an 8th last finish. The chance of the Leafs going from basement dweller to consistent contender before Kessel is 30+ is insanely low.

Kessel gave us all he was willing to give and the Leafs once again can't escape the bottom 10.

Keeping Kessel & Dion and pinning the success of next season's playoff push on FA signing Statsny, or trade for Thornton, Spezza, E. Staal is the status quo as far as I'm concerned. That's been every offseason plan for the past 5+ years and it's not amounting to anything.
 
What does that have to do with the post you quoted? (p.s. it's 35-40 goals.) Who said we don't need to change anything?

still haven't heard any names.

who exactly are these mystery franchise players that will be better than Kessel I keep hearing about?

Probably Ovechkin and Stamkos. So, players that aren't available. Also the only two players who have scored more goals than Kessel in the last what is it, 3 or 4 seasons?
 
Yep you're absolutely right! Kessel gave us one of the best/most valuable seasons of his career in terms of cap hit & production, so did Phaneuf. Bozak, Gunnarsson, Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClemment, Franson, Gleason are all also currently giving the Leafs the best seasons of their careers.

How can you claim this was the best year of Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClement, Gleason and Franson's career?

Many of those guys had down years, well off their career bests.
 
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Yep you're absolutely right! Kessel gave us one of the best/most valuable seasons of his career in terms of cap hit & production, so did Phaneuf. Bozak, Gunnarsson, Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClemment, Franson, Gleason are all also currently giving the Leafs the best seasons of their careers./QUOTE]
How can you claim this was the best year of Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClement, Gleason and Franson's career?

Many of those guys had down years, well off their career bests.

Bolland was out 80 percent of the year. Clarkson underperformed to even his rookie year standards. Lupul was injured a great deal, still managed 23 goals, but it was definitely a down year. Franson was a mess all season. His offensive (pp) numbers make him look more valuable than he is. And Gleason was good, up until after the Olympics. So ya, I'm not sure how anyone could say Phil had all this great help, but couldn't manage to get the Leafs all the way there. Oh, and they lost their number one goalie down the stretch. But who cares about a detail like that?
 
Either way just get me Bennett to add to Rielly and I don't care what else they do for now.

Would be a risk, but could be worth it just for the change in direction.

Reinhart/Bennett are pretty much Duchene/Seguin/RNH/Barkov caliber center prospects. Behind Tavares/Stamkos, but ahead of Johansen/B. Schenn/etc.

Shed 8M, add an 18 year old top top center prospect with high hockey IQ and strong two-way upside? While simultaneously selling off Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, Franson, Reimer, etc?

Talk about changing direction, changing the culture, having very good pieces in place at all positions (Rielly, Bernier, JVR, and Reinhart or Bennett), depth acquired by selling the other guys, and cap space to add other pieces. Plus we'd still have the 8th to add another piece.
 
Lupul scored 23 goals in a down year. He's moveable. Even if they don't decide to move him, I'm happy to keep him. But that's a possibility if you need cap relief.

Gunnarsson is moveable, and is easily replaced by someone who plays in the bottom pairing. Gunnarsson was often the source of a lot of the problems when it came to clearing the puck during prolonged defensive zone time. That 3 million is better spent elsewhere.

My pointing out Franson was to the point that he doesn't need to be re signed, and is easily moved.

Lupul's 22 goals is one of his better years , maybe you should do a little research . Also he did nothing but float this year and my point still stands that we can't move him without taking salary back.

So one of Ranger/Gleeson/Franson can easily replace Gunner , why am i not shocked you actually believe this . Gunner was our best and most consistent defensive D this year and played the 2nd hardest mins of any of our D and performed well . At 3 mil a season he a keeper considering how piss poor the rest of our D are in there own end.

Franson is not on the cap , moving him doesn't create any cap space which was the point of this discussion . You're just mindlessly throwing out crap and got caught.
 
Probably Ovechkin and Stamkos. So, players that aren't available. Also the only two players who have scored more goals than Kessel in the last what is it, 3 or 4 seasons?

Nah, that can't be...I'm hearing in this thread that Kessel is a complimentary piece that teams hardly need to win. A guy we should trade for draft picks and "warm bodies". A guy like that can't possibly be one of the league's leading scorers over the last few years, so you're probably lying, you lying liar. You're no Realist.
 
Nah, that can't be...I'm hearing in this thread that Kessel is a complimentary piece that teams hardly need to win. A guy we should trade for draft picks and "warm bodies". A guy like that can't possibly be one of the league's leading scorers over the last few years, so you're probably lying, you lying liar. You're no Realist.

Well the good thing about all this is that future will show us who is wrong and who is right. What players you may have had a chance at that become stars and clutch or what bullets you dodged. The future won't care about any of these posts it will just happen. Maybe we miss the playoffs for the next 3 or 4 years or maybe we find that piece to play with Kessel and it all turns around. We shall see. So far the past hasn't been great. That's about as real as it gets.
 
How can you claim this was the best year of Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClement, Gleason and Franson's career?

Many of those guys had down years, well off their career bests.

Are any of them likely to repeat their career bests? They didn't literally all have career seasons but the point is moving forward they are way more likely to decline/plateau than improve.

Lupul (30) - Very unlikely to match his career best or improve his defensive game. Outside of two short PPG seasons as Kessel's winger with #1PP time, he's been a consistent 50 point player. 22 goals is his 4th highest career total. Not quite a down year.

Clarkson (30) - 30 goals was a fluke. Extremely poor year this year, but even at his best is an outside chance for a 20/20 season. By the end of his contract I think these seasons will become more regular.

Bolland (27) - Played very well in his time with us, but if resigned has never played a full 82. Why should we expect that moving forward. Huge concern with back, and now foot injury.

McClemment (31) - Forced to play way over his head and showed he's incapable of producing offensively given a larger role. Fine 4th liner, but isn't going to be anything more than that if resigned.

Gleason (31) - Gave his body over and over, played fine with Rielly, but once again his play is way more likely to decline than improve.

Franson (26) - 3 different head coaches have used him as a bottom pairing PP specialist. The one that relies on him as a top 4 gets shown why. Exposed all year. I'm on the fence about Franson improving, but his hockey IQ/foot speed is terrible.

Please qualify that for all of us. Why is it "insanely low"?

Turning a bottom 10 team to a top 10 one is no easy task.

It gets harder when you only have 3 impact players on your roster under 24 left to improve. Rielly (19), Kadri (23), Gardiner (23).

It gets even harder when the majority of your team is either plateauing/declining and you have several of those players tied up long term with NTC/NMC.

Two players with top 15 cap hits starting next year and a 3/4 liner paid 5.25 x 6.

Given that the majority of the team is in their primes, we don't have significantly more young talent on our roster than any other team, our cap situation is very tight, and our prospect pool is generally considered below average.... I'd say they have an uphill battle.

It sucked losing Bernier at a crucial point of the year, but that doesn't excuse the Leafs from folding up like a cheap tent and calling it a year. Riemer didn't provide us with the Vezina calibre goaltending required for the Leafs to win, but too many players looked like they were content with the season slipping away so they could do their year end fishing/Europe trip.
 
That's a long way to say what you posted was garbage.

Those guys did not have career years, saying they did is incorrect.
 
Bolland was out 80 percent of the year. Clarkson underperformed to even his rookie year standards. Lupul was injured a great deal, still managed 23 goals, but it was definitely a down year. Franson was a mess all season. His offensive (pp) numbers make him look more valuable than he is. And Gleason was good, up until after the Olympics. So ya, I'm not sure how anyone could say Phil had all this great help, but couldn't manage to get the Leafs all the way there. Oh, and they lost their number one goalie down the stretch. But who cares about a detail like that?

The Red Wings say boo hoo. :(
 
Any line Clarkson was playing on was essentially playing a man down. You shouldn't even get a minus if the other team scores while Clarkson is on your line since they essentially have a power play.
 
Yep you're absolutely right! Kessel gave us one of the best/most valuable seasons of his career in terms of cap hit & production, so did Phaneuf. Bozak, Gunnarsson, Lupul, Clarkson, Bolland, McClemment, Franson, Gleason are all also currently giving the Leafs the best seasons of their careers..

That's a long way to say what you posted was garbage.

Those guys did not have career years, saying they did is incorrect.

I pluralized both "seasons" in my original post. Feel free to ignore it due to a typing error though.

Won't change the fact that moving forward most of those players have seen the best years of the careers and are unlikely to improve significantly.
 
i think the thing y'all are forgetting - is that Kessel has a limited no trade clause. (which I assume is still 8 games because that was never a sticking point in negotiations). i doubt Florida would be on that list. and the teams that would have him on his list probably don't need a Kessel. Just saying.
 
I don't want to trade Kessel--he is our most potent weapon. But a key question Shanahan needs to address is can we win with Phil while he is still in his prime; does his presence promote that happening or not? Because if not, then it is best to trade him while his value is high. Same with Phaneuf and Lupul--if we can't win with these guys, and I sure as hell don't think we can win with Phaneuf, then lets get rid of them while we can still get important parts back for them. The character of the team needs to fundamentally change and likely it will take drastic measures to accomplish that.
 
Kessel is not a problem and trading him is just plain bat**** crazy.

Lupul I would move if the return makes sense (I see him being a better asset to move at the deadline for someone making a push)

Phaneuf is the key. He needs to pack his bags.
 
I'd try and get it done for less, but I'd trade Kessel for the 1st overall pick in a heartbeat. Who here wouldn't do that?
 
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