If he retired today, this forward's a HHoFer.

[jetsforever]

McD, Kuch, Drai, AM, and maybe MacK

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Matthews has three Rockets and a Hart. Mackinnon actually doesn’t have any individual hardware other than a Calder which Matthews also has…unless we want to consider the Lady Byng lol.

Of all the sho-ins on that list, which it seems most agree on, Mac has the least amount of individual hardware right now. I still think he’s a slam dunk pick though, just pointing out that he surprisingly doesn’t really have any individual awards yet.

Rich man's Claude Giroux.

Maybe a slightly higher peak. Consistently a top player but never THE top player.

Even on his own team the only time there has been success MacGinnon was at best only the second most important. And arguably only fourth or fifth.

 

[PM88RU]

Looking at the results I wonder about two things:
1) who are those 4% who didn't vote for McDavid? Why?
2) what was the reasoning for some (7,6%) to not vote for Kucherov? His trophy pack and two SCs are the hardware second to none of the list with exception of McDavid, and that's only for those who value individual trophies more.

I truly expected to see 100% twice.

Either such voters have unreal high standards that both of players do not match (if so, who's deserving then?), or that's simply 'missed to click", just very curious to know.

 

[wetcoast]

Personally agree with him. Only a handful of players should get in per generation. Out of that list, McDavid, Kucherov and Draisaitl. Would include MacKinnon with 3-4 more 100 point seasons. Too much hall of very good instead of Fame.

I never get this argument, only a handful of players per generation (which is 20ish years) would mean like 1 guy every 3 or 4 years should get into the HHOF?

We don't know what scoring is going to be like in the future but 3 or 4 more 100 point season on top of his current resume would probably make him in the top 1/3 of all HHOFers right?

 

[filinski77]

Rich man's Claude Giroux.

Maybe a slightly higher peak. Consistently a top player but never THE top player.

Even on his own team the only time there has been success MacGinnon was at best only the second most important. And arguably only fourth or fifth.

	Mackinnon	Giroux
Top-10 Goals	4/6/9/9/9	None
Top-10 Points	2/5/5/5/7/8	2/3/3/10
Top-10 Hart	(1 or 2?)/2/2/3/5/6	3/4/4

Mackinnon is so far ahead of Giroux at this point, and he has a couple more years to get some more top-10 finishes. Plus - Mackinnon is an elite goalscorer, which is something Giroux never was.

Also would comfortably say Mackinnon was the top player this league, and at worst a tie with Kucherov. 51 goals - 140 points >= 44 goals - 144 points imo.

 

[wetcoast]

I mean, pastrnak has 120 less gp, so the point difference isn't really a big deal. And yes mackinnon has a cup but pastrnak has a rocket.

Mack also has the much better playoff production, Pasta will be where Mack is now in 2 years though.

 

[wetcoast]

How the hell are guys like Pastrnak and Rantanen getting votes for this???

If they retired today, neither have even close to enough career points, goals, or top finishes for offensive-forwards (for the compiling side of it), nor do they have a couple big major trophies to make up for the lack of career compiling.

	Pastrnak	Rantanen
Career Goals	348​	262​
Career Points	727​	617​
Top-10 goals finishes	1/2/7/10	3/5
Top-10 points finishes	3/3/5	5/8/8
Hart finishes	2, 4 (+ likely top-5/6 this yr)	6/10 (+ maybe a 9/10th this yr)

These 2 guys are wingers they will be compared to other wingers, both in the NHL and thsoe already in the Hall.

Rantanen also brings a really good playoff resume and is 8th in overall scoring the last 7 years while Pasta is 6th.

In the playoffs over the last 7 years (including this season) Rantanen is 3rd in scoring and Pasta is 8th.

Rantanen has 101 points and maybe Drai 86 and connor 89 pass him.

Maybe these 2 aren't worthy yet but they are really close.

 

[Aoko]

I guess using your criteria then the HHOF should probably have around 100-150 less players in it?

Also Mack has a SC and Hart finishes of 2,2,3,5 and 6 and will probably win this year, that's a HHOF lock given his playoff resume.

I'd go back and take a second look.

You're misinterpreting what I said. Or just making shit up to be funny. OBVIOUSLY, and I'm sure you're fully aware, simply winning a cup is not enough to be a HHOF. I cannot believe that even needs to be stated. Good freaking god.

 

[Regal]

You're misinterpreting what I said. Or just making shit up to be funny. OBVIOUSLY, and I'm sure you're fully aware, simply winning a cup is not enough to be a HHOF. I cannot believe that even needs to be stated. Good freaking god.

The poster isn’t misinterpreting what you said, he’s suggesting your standards are too high relative to what the Hall of Fame actually inducts (hence 100-150 fewer players), and that it’s unrealistic to discount MacKinnon for not winning a Hart when he has been a finalist 4 times and likely wins this year.

These are always difficult in the sense that players at these levels usually end up with a lot more career games and points, so it’s easy to say MacKinnon would get in with a normal career arc but not as easy if he retired tomorrow. But then when you have Lindros, Forsberg and Bure in despite shortened careers, it feels like someone who’s been widely considered a top3/top5 player for 7 years now would probably still get in. I mean he already has more career points than all three of those guys.

 

[byrath]

You might think that McDavid is a HoF lock, but I'm not sure the HoF voters would look kindly on him retiring in the middle of the conference finals

 

[bobholly39]

These 2 guys are wingers they will be compared to other wingers, both in the NHL and thsoe already in the Hall.

Rantanen also brings a really good playoff resume and is 8th in overall scoring the last 7 years while Pasta is 6th.

In the playoffs over the last 7 years (including this season) Rantanen is 3rd in scoring and Pasta is 8th.

Rantanen has 101 points and maybe Drai 86 and connor 89 pass him.

Maybe these 2 aren't worthy yet but they are really close.

I don't think they're that close. If the question was "who makes the hall of fame when they retire", sure I expect they will when they retire many years from now, but they have way too little games played as of today

Rantanen has 570 games played. Pastrnak 674 games.

Lindros had 760 games and had to wait quite a while before being inducted. And neither of them are close to the career Lindros had so far

I think some voters are just underestimating what it would take to make the hall of fame with so few games/seasons played.

 

[bobholly39]

Looking at the results I wonder about two things:
1) who are those 4% who didn't vote for McDavid? Why?
2) what was the reasoning for some (7,6%) to not vote for Kucherov? His trophy pack and two SCs are the hardware second to none of the list with exception of McDavid, and that's only for those who value individual trophies more.

I truly expected to see 100% twice.

Either such voters have unreal high standards that both of players do not match (if so, who's deserving then?), or that's simply 'missed to click", just very curious to know.

Asked....

You might think that McDavid is a HoF lock, but I'm not sure the HoF voters would look kindly on him retiring in the middle of the conference finals

...and answered.

 

[Rafafouille]

I never get this argument, only a handful of players per generation (which is 20ish years) would mean like 1 guy every 3 or 4 years should get into the HHOF?

We don't know what scoring is going to be like in the future but 3 or 4 more 100 point season on top of his current resume would probably make him in the top 1/3 of all HHOFers right?

Yes and yes. If you haven't defined your generation, you shouldn't be in the Hof. But as I said, that's my opinion, not some godly truth. Some are fine with the hall while personally I'd kick 50%+ of the players in it.

 

[HolyGhost]

WOW..many on the list of very good. JT MIller and others are nowhere near hall of fame level, same with Zack Hyman

 

[uncleben]

That's ridiculous.

He's a 3x Rocket Winner a Hart trophy winner, and a Ted Lindsay winner.


He absolutely would be a lock.

3 Rockets, Hart, Lindsay, 1st & 2nd All-Star
Plus, they don't just look at the NHL, and he won a team championship in the NLA

I'm not sure if they factor in junior play or rookie awards, but he's got a shit ton of hardware there (NHL and NLA Rookie of the Year, NLA Most Improved Player and Rising Star, 3x IIHF junior gold medalist (2 U18, 1 U17), U18 MVP, scoring leader, and All-Star, U20 All-Star, USHL 3rd All-Star, USA Hockey MVP)\

Plus, beyond just awards, impact on the game - most goals in an NHL debut, tearing through American scoring records, tearing through Maple Leafs scoring records, comes from a non-traditional market and grows the sport without trying. He's an induction committee's wet dream

 

[joestevens29]

Matthews voters should pull a lemmings

 

[joestevens29]

3 Rockets, Hart, Lindsay, 1st & 2nd All-Star
Plus, they don't just look at the NHL, and he won a team championship in the NLA

I'm not sure if they factor in junior play or rookie awards, but he's got a shit ton of hardware there (NHL and NLA Rookie of the Year, NLA Most Improved Player and Rising Star, 3x IIHF junior gold medalist (2 U18, 1 U17), U18 MVP, scoring leader, and All-Star, U20 All-Star, USHL 3rd All-Star, USA Hockey MVP)\

Plus, beyond just awards, impact on the game - most goals in an NHL debut, tearing through American scoring records, tearing through Maple Leafs scoring records, comes from a non-traditional market and grows the sport without trying. He's an induction committee's wet dream

He retires today 649 points isn’t a lock

 

[wetcoast]

I don't think they're that close. If the question was "who makes the hall of fame when they retire", sure I expect they will when they retire many years from now, but they have way too little games played as of today

Rantanen has 570 games played. Pastrnak 674 games.

Lindros had 760 games and had to wait quite a while before being inducted. And neither of them are close to the career Lindros had so far

I think some voters are just underestimating what it would take to make the hall of fame with so few games/seasons played.

I get what you are saying and some voters might feel that way but go back and look at HHOF the wingers inducted post expansion and alot of them are in because of their prime years not necessarily their longevity in being average players.

But that being said unless we get a player in the position of Rantanen and Pasta where they are now and then suddenly retire due to a career ending injury we won't really know.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes and yes. If you haven't defined your generation, you shouldn't be in the Hof. But as I said, that's my opinion, not some godly truth. Some are fine with the hall while personally I'd kick 50%+ of the players in it.

Okay that's fair if you have that high if a bar.

For me I try to use the current HHOF "standards" such as they are in answering this question.

The thing for me is that the players I had as locks all have significantly strong cases or have built their HHOF cake the rest of their careers are just icing.

 

[PAZ]

First 4 + Drai are locks.

Pastrnak would eventually in get in, Panarin will most likely as well.

They induct a minimum of 4 players per year. The best players that haven't been inducted are: Datsyuk, Mogilny, Kovalchuk, Zetterberg, Marleau, Gonchar, Weber, Miller, CuJo, Osgood, and Rinne.

You can make an argument for a few of the names that aren't in the HHOF yet over Pastrnak/Panarin/etc., but they'd eventually get in.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I feel like if mackinnon is a hhof'er so far then pastrnak has got to be too.

Wut? How are they comparable at all?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I also think that Rantanen and Pasta would be too.

The case for Rantanen is his extremely good 7 year prime, and he brings more than just stats and an excellent playoff resume as well (6 straight years above a PPG and 5 of those years double digit games). Even if one doesn't have him in yet he is tracking very well to be included soon.

Pasta's case is an extremely good 8 year prime a 2nd and 4th Hart finish and top goals finishes of 1,2,7 and 10 plus a pretty decent playoff resume.

Bread probably is as well but his playoff resume isn't all that great.

Matthew Tkachuk is trending that way but still needs more IMO.

I think Rantanen's playoff stats are much better than his performance. And even more so in Pastrnak 's case

 

[Coffey]

the top 4 and Drai

Pasta is the closest to joining that group.

These were my votes.

 

[wetcoast]

I think Rantanen's playoff stats are much better than his performance. And even more so in Pastrnak 's case

The HHOF committee is probably more swayed by stats then going back and watching each performance.

I mean can anyone really quantify Pasta being a better playoff performer than Rantanen?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The HHOF committee is probably more swayed by stats then going back and watching each performance.

I mean can anyone really quantify Pasta being a better playoff performer than Rantanen?

Sure, but we don't have to be.

And I might not have been clear, but Pastrnak is another guy whose stats look better than his playoff impact