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Identity?

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It's hard to tell what Blake and McLellan are going for. I can't tell if it's because the roster just isn't good or the system because I think both have caused major issues this season. I always liked how the Sharks played under McLellan, but the makeup of the teams are different. I don't know how far into the future Blake and Luc were thinking this rebuild was going to take, but they wanted to make the playoffs and actually short of where I thought they were going to finish. Someone earlier said it best that you can tell a team's identity when they're winning and when you're losing then your identity is as a loser and I think we haven't grown out of that yet.
 
tomd said:
I think the search for identity also needs to answer why every player traded since 2018 - without exception - has become significantly more successful on their new team. Tells me its not the talent...its the culture.
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I wouldn't say that. Here's some that certainly weren't more successful, let alone significantly.

2020:
Forbort was poor in Calgary, just blech there. Worse than with LA.

2019:
Oscar Fantenberg sucked in Calgary, he did nothing there. Wasn't great here but found a way to get worse.
Muzzin has been worse in Toronto, he's nothing close to the force he was here.
Clifford was not good in Toronto, they had better options than to re-sign him. Nowhere near as good as he was in LA.

2018
Andreoff didn't even play an NHL game in TB, they sent him straight down.
Marian Gaborik was worse in Ottawa. Kind of hard to have more success when you aren't even in the league. Yeah, he had a fork in him already, but still.
Nick Shore became even more tan after trading him, Ottawa loved him so much they traded him for a 7th a couple weeks later.
Pearson wasn't good with Pittsburgh. They kept him for 3 months and then traded him.

So maybe a few exceptions. Certainly a poor premise to base any conclusions on.

Players that have done significantly better:

Jeff Carter
Alec Martinez
Tyler Toffoli

The rest were either minor deals, weren't here long enough to determine or were a wash. Maybe you could argue Campbell, but he had his best Sv% year on a bad Kings team. He's been pretty good this year, but he's on a much better team so there is that.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
I think the lack of one is the biggest issue this team has right now. The blown leads, the getting caved in, the lack of passion, the inability to connect on passes...the 1-3-1 makes my eyes bleed. I'm biased though because I'm firmly on the fire TM train. Unless we can have some sort of cohesion in the first quarter of next season, the seats have to start getting hot.

And it's not just winning teams...even the Terry Murray Kings had an identity. We shouldn't be several years into TM's coaching and have no clue what they're trying to accomplish. Right now the best I can come up with is

1. if we turn puck over in offensive zone, keep pressure/forecheck on; if defending team controls the puck, back off and set up 1-3-1;
2. Use 1-3-1 to force dump-in;
3. f*** up breakout, outright lose puck, or glass-and out to one forward with no support so they can dump the puck and set up 1-3-1 again.
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Agreed, people are way too easy on TM. He's done nothing to warrant patience. The fact this team doesn't have even a semblance of an identity with how long he's been here is inexcusable. Says everything about him as a coach. We don't need Tortorella. We need a man with a firm plan. TM has gotten a way too long of a rope undeservedly.
 
It’s hard to have an identity when majority of the defense is very inexperienced and most of the forwards, for a majority of the season, were place holders who wouldn’t be surprised to be out of the NHL in 2-3 years.
 
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So far, the identity of zero urgency and inability to overcome adversity is the most obvious.

We are the only team in the NHL that hasn't scored with their goalie pulled the whole season. We did blow a couple of leads in the final minutes, though.

That speaks of players being too complacent and not putting in enough work to pose a legitimate threat.
 
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Sol said:
Agreed, people are way too easy on TM. He's done nothing to warrant patience. The fact this team doesn't have even a semblance of an identity with how long he's been here is inexcusable. Says everything about him as a coach. We don't need Tortorella. We need a man with a firm plan. TM has gotten a way too long of a rope undeservedly.
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I get the TM hate, the team's lack of direction is frustrating. But how long has he been here, a season and a half worth of games? He had a top-4 defenseman traded out and a top-6'er, and has one of the youngest rosters in the league. That to me warrants at least a little patience, I don't necessarily think he's had a long rope. He hasn't even coached as many games as Crawford did and he was just a blip.

I don't think people are easy on him either, his 1-3-1 might work with a different team makeup, but it's been trash here and he's called out on it all the time. Now that the younger guys are settling in, I expect to see substantial growth as far as identity and culture next year. If it continues, then yea, shitcan him.
 
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Fishhead said:
I wouldn't say that. Here's some that certainly weren't more successful, let alone significantly.

2020:
Forbort was poor in Calgary, just blech there. Worse than with LA.

2019:
Oscar Fantenberg sucked in Calgary, he did nothing there. Wasn't great here but found a way to get worse.
Muzzin has been worse in Toronto, he's nothing close to the force he was here.
Clifford was not good in Toronto, they had better options than to re-sign him. Nowhere near as good as he was in LA.

2018
Andreoff didn't even play an NHL game in TB, they sent him straight down.
Marian Gaborik was worse in Ottawa. Kind of hard to have more success when you aren't even in the league. Yeah, he had a fork in him already, but still.
Nick Shore became even more tan after trading him, Ottawa loved him so much they traded him for a 7th a couple weeks later.
Pearson wasn't good with Pittsburgh. They kept him for 3 months and then traded him.

So maybe a few exceptions. Certainly a poor premise to base any conclusions on.

Players that have done significantly better:

Jeff Carter
Alec Martinez
Tyler Toffoli

The rest were either minor deals, weren't here long enough to determine or were a wash. Maybe you could argue Campbell, but he had his best Sv% year on a bad Kings team. He's been pretty good this year, but he's on a much better team so there is that.
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It is also important to remember that we did not trade Martinez because he sucked. We traded him because we needed picks for the rebuild. He, along with Muzzin, were players that had value, which could get us good picks/assets. With respect to Toffoli, he has always been hot and cold. I never doubted that Toffoli could have another 30-goal season, but he couldn't produce at that rate consistently and signing him to a long-term contract would be risky.

For Carter, he is having a temporary hot streak on a new team and motivated. He is getting old, was not part of our long-term plan, and we needed a roster spot for the young players.
 
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They are trans they used to identify as cup champions and have undergone transformation to lottery contenders. Once in a while they show glimpses of goodness so maybe they identify as a fluid team.
 
AlphaBravo said:
It is also important to remember that we did not trade Martinez because he sucked. We traded him because we needed picks for the rebuild. He, along with Muzzin, were players that had value, which could get us good picks/assets. With respect to Toffoli, he has always been hot and cold. I never doubted that Toffoli could have another 30-goal season, but he couldn't produce at that rate consistently and signing him to a long-term contract would be risky.

For Carter, he is having a temporary hot streak on a new team and motivated. He is getting old, was not part of our long-term plan, and we needed a roster spot for the young players.
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Just to expand, Martinez and Muzzin were traded because the rebuild was inevitable, their contracts were not going to renewed.

Smart decisions, had nothing to do with their quality.
 
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When you’re a lottery hopeful at the end of a season, that is the sum of your identity. For pro sports teams, your identity going into a new season is based around your best players. Next season for the Kings, their best players are most likely Kopitar and Doughty.

If that’s the case, then at their best and with support, that identity is defensive hockey. At its worst, it’s like this season and the last two before that. So either the kids plus acquisitions result in a better team that is great defensively and better offensively. Or things don’t go perfectly, and you fall short by varying degrees.
 
Too early to be looking for any kind of team identity. The roster is full of young players, place holders, and a couple of vets that are bad leaders and aren’t going to motivate the troops. The identity rests in the young players and they’re still finding their way.
 
Maynard said:
Too early to be looking for any kind of team identity. The roster is full of young players, place holders, and a couple of vets that are bad leaders and aren’t going to motivate the troops. The identity rests in the young players and they’re still finding their way.
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Never too early. The young guys will need to be looking up to some vets. Are Kopi, Brown, Doughty and Quick enough?
 
Legionnaire said:
Never too early. The young guys will need to be looking up to some vets. Are Kopi, Brown, Doughty and Quick enough?
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Kopitar and Brown had Norstrom for a short time. Blake for a couple of years. But who else? Army? Handzus? Visnovsky before he was gone? Modry? Not much there, and I'd say the 4 above are a much better group of vets to learn from than Kopitar and Brown had.

It was more the guys who were brought in that rounded out the leadership and brought that accountability. Hopefully, that happens again.
 
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Fishhead said:
Kopitar and Brown had Norstrom for a short time. Blake for a couple of years. But who else? Army? Handzus? Visnovsky before he was gone? Modry? Not much there, and I'd say the 4 above are a much better group of vets to learn from than Kopitar and Brown had.

It was more the guys who were brought in that rounded out the leadership and brought that accountability. Hopefully, that happens again.
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Colin Frasier, obviously.
 
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How do you build an identity for the current and future when you have so few players who know they are going to be in it for the long haul. Kopi, Doughty, Quick and basically all those guys knew 10-12 years ago they were in it for the long haul.

Of the players on the active roster, how many can you say with a decent amount of certainty are going to be with the team next season?

How about 4 years from now?

Doughty
Roy
Anderson
JAD
Vilardi
Bjornfot

Doughty is a great player, but let's be honest, he's not one of those culture changer ra-ra leadership guys. The Kings hope for Drew is that he can still be a #1 d-man when the team has enough talent to contend again.

The Kings identity is Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown and up until a few weeks ago Carter trying desperately to get one more run. And that will be the identity until either all those guys are gone or someone steps up and takes it from them.
 
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