Post-Game Talk: "I know what every players knob looks like" Jets lose 3-2 in OT

[Flair Hay]

Another ignorant post. People don't want to talk about it 24/7 like some obsessed people because there are other things to talk about and it's . All you have to do is look at it from a different perspective and you would realize that.

People are so caught up on ONE thing, they ignore everything else. Like the fact that someone like you seems to ignore the fact that we played way too loose late in the Nashville game and it was only a matter of time before a puck went in, whereas Nashville had things locked down pretty good.

But because more then 2 goals went in, regardless how they did go in, people want to do nothing but talk about Pavs. And it's starting to become borderline psychotic.

If something else of more context was brought to the situation, people wouldn't jump to conclusions about certain opinions, yet none is brought, so the same stuff is said, over and over and over and over.

It's also hard to take certain opinions serious when blame is only thrown at one player, which is a very ignorant way to go. Last I checked, it's a team game, yet we want to blame the same guy every game?? Like I said...

It's not hard to take those opinions seriously. You shoudn't take them seriously. The way our team has been playing we could have a Kopitar and Ward on our team and we'd still have a very similar record to what we have now. Hopefully Noel can finally turn it around...

 

[HannuJ]

It's an opinion. You can disagree. But is he right? It depends. Pavs was out of position on two goals. Was that his fault? It's hard to say b/c our D doesn't play D. It doesn't seem we have a defensive system. So Pavs gets no help. The trend over the last four seasons is that Pavs is an average to below average goaltender (stats tell that story). Although with this D, Luongo, Price, etc. might look awful too. Great goaltenders can steal a game. Pavs is not in that category. Overplaying him likely doesn't help his stats either.

we are 10 games into the season. he's made 90% of the starts. he's not, by definition, being overplayed. jets have had 1 b2b series. he's had time to rest. he hasn't been Dubnyk horrawful in any of the games.

the bottom line: posters who come on threads to harp only about Pavs are showing their lack of understanding hockey. in almost 99% of games, you don't have one player losing a game for you. you simply don't.
Pavs has not lost one game for the Jets. he hasn't won one either, but, at best, you can argue that he's part of the problem and not the sole problem.

the Winnipeg Jets did not lose to the Nashville Predators because of Pavs. This is closer to fact than it is opinion. unless Garrett has some stats to show that i'm completely off base or unless i missed something in the 3rd period (i was at hockey and didn't watch it, but hey, the jets tied the game in the 3rd, so i assume Pavs wasn't the flaw), the scoreboard test, the highlight reel and watching the game proves that, in this one game analysis, Pavs was not to blame.

it really isn't that difficult to understand.

want a scape goat? then blame the coaching staff for not teaching better break-out plays. blame Wheeler for taking that really dumb penalty in the 1st period, which resulted in a goal. blame Bogosian for playing that 3 on 2 really, really poorly, resulting in a 2 on 1 and a goal. blame Ladd, Little and Kane for not scoring. Blame Scheifele for not tallying points and blame Frolik for pulling a Houdini v2.0 over the last 5 games.

it really isn't that hard to understand. and in case it is, i've spelled it out for you and everyone to read.

 

[Duke749]

Oh, and Jones is very smooth...

And Weber is the best defenseman I've seen this year. Makes Subban look like a 3rd pairing guy defensively and Karlsson looks like a junior player compared to him.

 

[theamazingchris]

I'm not going to overstate this, but I do think goaltending is the one area that we didn't outplay the Preds in last night. Which is disappointing, because that's what I thought last night too. All in all, the game could have gone either way, and it didn't go our way. But if we play like this, we'll win more than we lose.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I'm starting to see a very troubling trend. It really seems like a lot of posters here are trying to shut down Pavelec discussion by saying threads are being hijacked and upset about people who want to criticize him. I bet that they think the mods will begin handing out infractions and shut down the debate on Pavelec in hopes of creating an illusion of "this site has become unreadable because of X".

If you don't like to talk about Pavelec, then don't talk about Pavelec. Simply picking up your ball and going home and all the while doing so saying it's because of the big bad Pavelec detractors is weak. If you don't like what people have to say about him ignore it and move on and talk about something else game related.

I think the real issue is that with each passing game, and frankly season, Pavelec supporters have less material to work with. Their defense of him becomes more emotional, more hysterical, and less connected with reality. If you feel uncomfortable discussing it.. don't. No one is forcing you to engage in a Pavs debate if you don't want to.

An alternative viewpoint is that the Pavelec "discussion" isn't really a discussion any longer. Rather, it seems to have become an exercise in flogging people over the head about how terrible he is, and trying to determine how much blame he's to shoulder for each and every loss.

I'm not even sure what you'd consider a "Pavelec supporter" to be at this point. I've seen very few people say he's even an average NHL netminder, even fewer saying that he's anything resembling good.

The Pavelec debate jumped the shark a long time ago, tbh. Most here agree that he needs to be better.

 

[theamazingchris]

we are 10 games into the season. he's made 90% of the starts. he's not, by definition, being overplayed. jets have had 1 b2b series. he's had time to rest. he hasn't been Dubnyk horrawful in any of the games.

the bottom line: posters who come on threads to harp only about Pavs are showing their lack of understanding hockey. in almost 99% of games, you don't have one player losing a game for you. you simply don't.
Pavs has not lost one game for the Jets. he hasn't won one either, but, at best, you can argue that he's part of the problem and not the sole problem.

the Winnipeg Jets did not lose to the Nashville Predators because of Pavs. This is closer to fact than it is opinion. unless Garrett has some stats to show that i'm completely off base or unless i missed something in the 3rd period (i was at hockey and didn't watch it, but hey, the jets tied the game in the 3rd, so i assume Pavs wasn't the flaw), the scoreboard test, the highlight reel and watching the game proves that, in this one game analysis, Pavs was not to blame.

it really isn't that difficult to understand.

want a scape goat? then blame the coaching staff for not teaching better break-out plays. blame Wheeler for taking that really dumb penalty in the 1st period, which resulted in a goal. blame Bogosian for playing that 3 on 2 really, really poorly, resulting in a 2 on 1 and a goal. blame Ladd, Little and Kane for not scoring. Blame Scheifele for not tallying points and blame Frolik for pulling a Houdini v2.0 over the last 5 games.

it really isn't that hard to understand. and in case it is, i've spelled it out for you and everyone to read.

Not to push this, but it sounds like you're saying "You can't blame individual players!" and then you go on to blame several individual players. I understand what you mean; it's rare that one player will lose a game for a team. I'd say it's not actually possible. I just don't think that Pavelec is a net positive for this team, and that is worrisome. Yes he was not the only thing wrong with the team last night, but he is more often on the wrong side of the fence than the right side, AFAIC.

Saying "It's not Pavs' fault" is incorrect; it is at least partially his fault for the goals that went in. Saying "It's all Pavs' fault" is also incorrect; we give up chances a lot. But when we create more chances than we allow and still lose, that doesn't look good for the goalie.

 

[meedle]

I'm not going to overstate this, but I do think goaltending is the one area that we didn't outplay the Preds in last night. Which is disappointing, because that's what I thought last night too. All in all, the game could have gone either way, and it didn't go our way. But if we play like this, we'll win more than we lose.

Hate to break it to you. When you let in 3 goals or more you lose more than you win.

 

[allan5oh]

Hate to break it to you. When you let in 3 goals or more you lose more than you win.

And the ony game that pavs let in less than 2 we lost.

 

[Duke749]

And the ony game that pavs let in less than 2 we lost.

Wow.... you're right...

 

[Bartho]

An alternative viewpoint is that the Pavelec "discussion" isn't really a discussion any longer. Rather, it seems to have become an exercise in flogging people over the head about how terrible he is, and trying to determine how much blame he's to shoulder for each and every loss.

I'm not even sure what you'd consider a "Pavelec supporter" to be at this point. I've seen very few people say he's even an average NHL netminder, even fewer saying that he's anything resembling good.

The Pavelec debate jumped the shark a long time ago, tbh. Most here agree that he needs to be better.

Exactly.
No one is saying Pavelec is an elite NHL goaltender. Our team isn't playing like an elite NHL team either. There are plenty if reasons we have a middling record at the moment yet some folks are ludicrously obsessed with one of them.
WE GET IT! Are you capable if discussing ANYTHING ELSE?

 

[Duke749]

On an ironic note, I would have done better off starting Pavs over Niemi on my fantasy team...

 

[meedle]

And the ony game that pavs let in less than 2 we lost.

But.... If you only let in 2 goals a night you will win more than you lose

 

[ps241]

It's a pleasure to watch Shea Weber. He defends so well, he is one of the few guys in the league that can make Evander look average on the rush. Wow on Seth Jones, he is exceeding my expectations. so Nashville told him to practice playing on the left side all summer, maybe we should have thought of that with Trouba or Bogo just in case.

Our bottom six had a really good night and Postma seems to be getting better every game. I really miss Trouba, he was one of the reasons I liked watching so much early in the season. I thought we defended as a team very well last night and I never say that, our break outs were much better as well.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

An alternative viewpoint is that the Pavelec "discussion" isn't really a discussion any longer. Rather, it seems to have become an exercise in flogging people over the head about how terrible he is, and trying to determine how much blame he's to shoulder for each and every loss.

I'm not even sure what you'd consider a "Pavelec supporter" to be at this point. I've seen very few people say he's even an average NHL netminder, even fewer saying that he's anything resembling good.

The Pavelec debate jumped the shark a long time ago, tbh. Most here agree that he needs to be better.

Thank you - agree completely. If I kept talking about it, I'd feel like I'm be beating a dead horse.

And regarding the bolded: I wish the Jets could play well enough to mask a below average goaltender. To date, they haven't. I'm buoyed by the fact that they CAN, if they'd just play the game properly, consistently, and for 60 minutes.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I don't know what game you guys are upset at, because I found last night very entertaining and encouraging at the same time. My only wish is that we could stop the line juggling.

It's so nice to see guys giving their all for a whole hockey game. It was a game that we certainly could have won (as was the last one) had we gotten some bounces or some luck.

Our penalty kill generally looks good and the PP needs more than passing, but overall, I would take more of these types of games.

And, I was VERY happy for my man Peluso. I've always thought, just from comments of past coaches and trainers that there was more potential than meets the eye from him, and he's starting to prove it. 10 NHL games, and he's looking pretty damn good out there.

Oh, and if I see the name Pav in any thread, I skip it We all know everything there is to know by now.

 

[Duke749]

Does anyone else find it annoying/concerning that Bogosian's idea of a puck battle a lot of times is whacking at the puck from a stick length away? Why he doesn't use his size more, I don't know...

 

[ps241]

Yet we passed on well above average goalie Anton Khudobin in free agency, and potential average/above average goalie in Tomas Greiss as well as trade options like Jonathan Bernier, Frederik Anderson, Niklas Svedberg, and Michal Neuvirth all which would have competed with Pavelec for starter role.

Yea this x 100

I believe Chevy has done a respectable job especially in the draft and development strategy and I think he is the right hire long term BUT I screamed this from the rooftop in the offseason. We have needed a committee in net from day 1 and we desperatley need a quality tender to challenge for starts and perhaps win the 1a job. Between Chevy chunking it and Noel playing Pavs 70 + games it pretty much throws away any chance we have to make the playoffs. We are just not a talented enough team on paper to overcome that challenge.

I Heard GM Don in Phoenix say "if we get top 10 goaltending this season we should make the playoffs" and he went on to say "if we get top 5 goaltending we can go deep again in the playoffs"......kinda says it all. given how much tougher our division is we are not going to make the playoffs with below average NHL goaltending results.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Does anyone else find it annoying/concerning that Bogosian's idea of a puck battle a lot of times is whacking at the puck from a stick length away? Why he doesn't use his size more, I don't know...

He needs to watch Weber more. Bogo is a tools guy with little hockey IQ. It is what is going to keep him from being a number 1/2 guy because he can still make poor decisions(Weber's goal was a very dumb decision on Bogo's part).

 

[surixon]

Yea this x 100

I believe Chevy has done a respectable job especially in the draft and development strategy and I think he is the right hire long term BUT I screamed this from the rooftop in the offseason. We have needed a committee in net from day 1 and we desperatley need a quality tender to challenge for starts and perhaps win the 1a job. Between Chevy chunking it and Noel playing Pavs 70 + games it pretty much throws away any chance we have to make the playoffs. We are just not a talented enough team on paper to overcome that challenge.

I Heard GM Don in Phoenix say "if we get top 10 goaltending this season we should make the playoffs" and he went on to say "if we get top 5 goaltending we can go deep again in the playoffs"......kinda says it all. given how much tougher our division is we are not going to make the playoffs with below average NHL goaltending results.

I agree. I really wanted Bernier and I would have gladly paid an equivalent package to get him. Look at how well he's doing now that he gets starts, wed be in instantly better team. All I'm saying is that Chevy should go really hard at Miller or Reimer this off season.

 

[tbcwpg]

An alternative viewpoint is that the Pavelec "discussion" isn't really a discussion any longer. Rather, it seems to have become an exercise in flogging people over the head about how terrible he is, and trying to determine how much blame he's to shoulder for each and every loss.

I'm not even sure what you'd consider a "Pavelec supporter" to be at this point. I've seen very few people say he's even an average NHL netminder, even fewer saying that he's anything resembling good.

The Pavelec debate jumped the shark a long time ago, tbh. Most here agree that he needs to be better.

Have to agree with this. To use a bombastic example, it's like McCarthyism. Better not do anything than blame Pavelec or you're called out as a Pavelec supporter and told to read stats. Most of us have said he needs to improve, but he's not the biggest problem on the team right now. Saying that he doesn't bail out the team just ignores the bigger problem: why does he need to always bail out the team in the first place?

Pavelec is a goalie who won't win many games for you, but will often not lose any for you either. This whole team is a mess right now. Making arguments that single out one player is focusing on a small part of the problem. There are plenty of problems. Breakouts. Powerplay. Losing the puck battles. Forecheck is not consistent. Blown assignments in front of the net. And my god, the giveaways. Pavelec let in 2 goals against St. Louis that were directly from defensive zone giveaways. Pavelec should help his team out? His team should help him out, as well.

 

[bigplay41*]

We are a bad hockey team and all of us are guilty of overvaluing our players. We lack depth on the 3rd and 4th line and probably wouldn't matter what goalie was on our team we would still be ****. I've come to realize 6th or 7th in the central will probably be where we're at. No expectations from me anymore this year.

 

[ps241]

Does anyone else find it annoying/concerning that Bogosian's idea of a puck battle a lot of times is whacking at the puck from a stick length away? Why he doesn't use his size more, I don't know...

He needs to watch Weber more. Bogo is a tools guy with little hockey IQ. It is what is going to keep him from being a number 1/2 guy because he can still make poor decisions(Weber's goal was a very dumb decision on Bogo's part).

Yea I agree Bogo made a mistake by over committing on that play and letting Weber walk down main street.....Clitty needed to slide into the middle on that as well and at least get his stick in to challenge the shot when he sees Bogo commit.

I feel Zach has started playing better over the past few games and although he isn't pitching shut outs he is trending in the right direction and settling in more. I agree his hockey IQ is not that of a Weber or an Enstrom but he will be fine and is a quality top 4 defender. Nobody on the planet would benefit more from a Scuderi type D partner but that isn't going to happen and for now its nice to have Toby as his side kick although I prefer Toby and Buff together.

I liked his effort on the game tying goal and with Zach we know his points usually come in bunches so perhaps this is a sign of more things to come. He also played a 3-1 fantastic and took away a great scoring chance earlier in the game.

 

[surixon]

We are a bad hockey team and all of us are guilty of overvaluing our players. We lack depth on the 3rd and 4th line and probably wouldn't matter what goalie was on our team we would still be ****. I've come to realize 6th or 7th in the central will probably be where we're at. No expectations from me anymore this year.

Go look at Toronto and Colorado. Those two teams are examples of teams with poor defenses but get elite level goaltending. The Jets aren't a bad team, they are merely just an average one. The Jets would see a decent jump in success if we had equivalent goaltending.

 

[Grind]

I had a dream last night i was talking to Noel and Chevy about Bogo and Chevy turned to me and said, "yup, he isn't the GoGo BoGo of last year that's for sure" at which point bogosian walked in, looking like he was carrying about 30% body fat, with meth-addict teeth and long greasy hair, eating ice cream from a tub and laughing like an idiot.


Sorry i just remembered that and it was a really disappointing dream.

 

[bigplay41*]

I had a dream last night i was talking to Noel and Chevy about Bogo and Chevy turned to me and said, "yup, he isn't the GoGo BoGo of last year that's for sure" at which point bogosian walked in, looking like he was carrying about 30% body fat, with meth-addict teeth and long greasy hair, eating ice cream from a tub and laughing like an idiot.


Sorry i just remembered that and it was a really disappointing dream.

Must of been sippin on some sizzurp last night lol