Post-Game Talk: I hate the Leafs

[TheOtherOne]

I'd like to see Moose with Raymond. And maybe Bertuzzi. Something like that.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Wonder how long they run the Chiarot-Seider pairing. I like that Lalonde is still giving them big minutes in a try to work it out way. But eventually somethings gotta change. Seider doesn't have his swagger he had and Chiarot is a trainwreck. Be it breakouts, net front coverage, and I haven't seen him bully someone in a while it feels like.

He was pretty bad in the Panther playoff games I watched, but was hoping it was just a new team or he just didn't fit type of thing. But he might just stink and end up being a expensive third pairing guy.

If they let them run all of December, at this rate they'll be -70.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Starting Husso so many games in a row is Lalondes biggest mistake so far.

 

[Henkka]

Starting Husso so many games in a row is Lalondes biggest mistake so far.

It had nothing to do with this game. He had enough off days before, just like as "backup had played in those mid-days" and the game schedule was quite easy.

But on long run, that will change, because we are gonna have 9 games in 16 days.

Husso will have bad games here at there. Last bad ones were against Bos & Nyr. Then he was solid again.

3 bad games
12 great starts from 15 games.

That's a very good record overall.

Nedeljkovic has only 2 good starts of his started 6. Hope his form will continue to next game vs. CBJ which he'll start for sure.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Again, same is repeating.

Every goal was scored against Chiarot-Seider on the ice.

They are starting to be the worst pair at NHL, in goals scored against.

View attachment 614324

These are 5-on-5 stats from this season.

I thought earlier Hägg-Lindström is the worst we can see, but Chiarot-Seider took the "lead" on recent games.

It's weird how the things will happen, many times it does not look like it's either Seider's or Chia's fault. But some bad play usually is there. They try to clear the zone, and can't complete it, then both will run from behind the goal in front of the net to "save the day" and will screen our own goalie or something. And the easy shot goes in. It looks like a goalies fault, but the defenders are also messing on the way.

Or like that PP goal, both guys tried to play against the Leafs screener, which did left Nylander totally open for rebound. that was Chiarot's bad play imo. He should have left Seider to take care of the screeners stick, and be ready for the rebound. But both guys were concentrating on the same guy. This happens all the time, they cover the same guy, and do the same play, and opposite guys are left open.

The pair should be just split, they can't get it working together. Think it could work later at the season, if they can get some time with different partners. Now it's just repeating the same mistake.

Can we just kick Chiarot off the team already. I've tried to give him a chance but he's managed to make Seider struggle defensively. The guy just can't play hockey effectively and brings everyone down. I can't watch him just surrender possession at every opportunity and get his line hemmed in the defensive zone anymore.

 

[Henkka]

Can we just kick Chiarot off the team already. I've tried to give him a chance but he's managed to make Seider struggle defensively. The guy just can't play hockey effectively and brings everyone down. I can't watch him just surrender possession at every opportunity and get his line hemmed in the defensive zone anymore.

Too bad, but you have to watch him for next 4 years.

We have to make that guy work, somehow.

It's really interesting, how those DeKeyser-Seider stats from last season are starting look pretty good versus this Chiarot-Seider one. Those weren't any kind of shiny +50% stats either on GF% or xGF%, but not as bad as we have now.

Should we sign DeKeyser back? He would take the league minimum. He hasn't gone anywhere after the pto with Canucks, I think.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Too bad, but you have to watch him for next 4 years.

We have to make that guy work, somehow.

It's really interesting, how those DeKeyser-Seider stats from last season are starting look pretty good versus this Chiarot-Seider one. Those weren't any kind of shiny +50% stats either on GF% or xGF%, but not as bad as we have now.

Should we sign DeKeyser back? He would take the league minimum. He hasn't gone anywhere after the pto with Canucks, I think.

Bringing Dekeyser back would be too depressing. I think we have to drop Chiarot to the third pair and try to see if Seider can find chemistry with Walman, Oesterle, or an AHL callup (Edvinsson or Johansson I guess?). Then if they can't hack it, we try to sign/trade for someone... Regardless, it's clear that Chiarot being one of the league's worst defenseman wasn't just a product of Florida, Montreal or Winnipeg's defensive systems or having too much responsibility or whatever excuse we tried telling ourselves this off-season. The guy is just awful

 

[Pavels Dog]

Can we just kick Chiarot off the team already. I've tried to give him a chance but he's managed to make Seider struggle defensively. The guy just can't play hockey effectively and brings everyone down. I can't watch him just surrender possession at every opportunity and get his line hemmed in the defensive zone anymore.

Seider's struggles are his own. The attempts to pin everything on his partners are frankly embarrassing.
Chiarot has been fairly solid. He'll be bumped down the lineup eventually when Edvinsson arrives.

 

[Henkka]

Bringing Dekeyser back would be too depressing...

... maybe I was joking.

But I just compared those D-pair stats for last year....

Määttä-Hronek and Walman-Oesterle are absolutely great compared to anything which has happened on last 2 years. They are so great that we can live with this Chiarot-Seider problem. But not maybe too long.

It's just unbelieveable how we can't get our Top pair going.

 

[Henkka]

Seider's struggles are his own. The attempts to pin everything on his partners are frankly embarrassing.
Chiarot has been fairly solid. He'll be bumped down the lineup eventually when Edvinsson arrives.

This is very tough to plan, how to re-construct the new pairs?

If Edvinsson was kind of mistake prone, and we pair him with Seider?

Then there's Chiarot going on the 3rd pair, which is already performing almost perfectly? I woudn't break that pair until there's an injury or it will stop working.

Think the only move is to bench either Chiarot or Seider for Edvinsson, and keep Määttä-Hronek & Walman-Oesterle together.

Or keep the pairs same, but give harder duties for Määttä-Hronek, to see how they will survive against the Top lines, and let Chiarot-Seider have easier duty, to get their confidence back.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Yeah I don't wanna act like Seider is pulling Chiarot around or anything. He has been struggling as well, I just give Seider more leeway because he is 21 in year 2.

But I would not define Chiarot's play as fairly solid.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This is very tough to plan, how to re-construct the new pairs?

No need to change up much right now. There wouldn't be many calls to change anything up if you simply reversed Seider's and Hronek's stats and the team's record was the same.

Next season Edvinsson and probably one of Wallinder/Johansson take the spots of whoever isn't re-signed among Määtta/Oesterle/Walman.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Seider's struggles are his own. The attempts to pin everything on his partners are frankly embarrassing.
Chiarot has been fairly solid. He'll be bumped down the lineup eventually when Edvinsson arrives.

I'm not trying to say that Seider is blameless at all. He hasn't had that raw confidence defensively to engage everyone and take the puck away that he had last year. His puck management has been downright awful sometimes and he often has looked like he hasn't anticipated what to do with the puck until he's already gotten it.

I'm really not sure how you can say that Chiarot has been fairly solid though. He chases people around the defensive zone but never catches them. If he gets the puck, he immediately throws it away in a panic or holds it until he's in trouble and then throws it to someone that's covered. He never gives his partner an easy pass, and can only skate in a straight line. He looked like this in Montreal, he looked like this in Florida. He probably looked like this in Winnipeg but I can't really remember. He hasn't even really maintained his best quality as a bruiser. Maybe I'm suffering from confirmation bias, but after a bit of optimism in the preseason, he's been even worse than I expected.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Can we call Toronto TTUN?

No. Because abbreviating names so you avoid saying them or x’ing out letters is f***ing pathetic. Even when you’re winning it’s pathetic.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Can we just kick Chiarot off the team already. I've tried to give him a chance but he's managed to make Seider struggle defensively. The guy just can't play hockey effectively and brings everyone down. I can't watch him just surrender possession at every opportunity and get his line hemmed in the defensive zone anymore.

Chiarot just doesn’t mesh with Seider.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Chiarot just doesn’t mesh with Seider.

I'd lend this some credence if he'd meshed with his partners elsewhere. Chiarot just doesn't mesh with NHL players.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And now we've reached the point of the discussion where we nitpick if the way a player tied their skate laces had anything to do with the game's outcome...

 

[StargateSG1]

I distinctly remember people being ridiculed for saying Chiarot is a bottom paid D and won't help much,
now all of a sudden the board comes to the same realization.
Mazel Tov!

 

[RedWingzz]

I think it's time to get Raymond back on PP1. The Sundqvist experiment needs to end. He's not a PP1 player, he's never been a PP guy, not sure why we are trying to make him one.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I distinctly remember people being ridiculed for saying Chiarot is a bottom paid D and won't help much,
now all of a sudden the board comes to the same realization.
Mazel Tov!

It's always fun when you can sense the glee in someone's post about saying they're right even when it means the team is worse off.

Chiarot hasn't played as a bottom pairing D in over 5 seasons but you guys making him sound like he's Lashoff.

I see we've got a new spacegoat™!

 

[StargateSG1]

It's always fun when you can sense the glee in someone's post about saying they're right even when it means the team is worse off.

Chiarot hasn't played as a bottom pairing D in over 5 seasons but you guys making him sound like he's Lashoff.

I see we've got a new spacegoat™!

So did DeKeyzer, played over-slotted, sometimes it's just "name recognition". His underlying numbers were bad for a while.

 

[Ricelund]

He looks like he plays without fun, even when he scores there is no smile or reaction on his face.

Yeah, I've noticed this too. He had a lot of swagger and enthusiasm last year. This year he seems down on himself. I wonder what's going on.

 

[MBH]

I think it's time to get Raymond back on PP1. The Sundqvist experiment needs to end. He's not a PP1 player, he's never been a PP guy, not sure why we are trying to make him one.

Not sure why they wouldn't use Rasmussen or Bertuzzi or Soderblom (when healthy) in that role.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd like to see Moose with Raymond. And maybe Bertuzzi. Something like that.

I still think that Berggren, Rasmussen (for faceoffs) and Veleno would make a solid 3rd line. Both Veleno and Berggren need more icetime for sure.

Erne - Suter - Sundqvist can be the 4th with Larkin/Copp taking the odd double shift with them.

 

[14ari13]

Is Seider injured, minor injury?
I don't think it is Chiarot fault Seider is struggling. Raymond is going through the same.

The only thing I would change is putting Hronek on the 1st PP unit, Seider on 2nd.

I think it's time to get Raymond back on PP1. The Sundqvist experiment needs to end. He's not a PP1 player, he's never been a PP guy, not sure why we are trying to make him one.

I was thinking the same. He looks completely lost on PP. I would rather try Erne if we need a big body in front of the net.
Bergren has looked very good and Zadina has no chance to get back in the lineup unless we hit injuries.
I have always liked DeKeyser and I would love to get him back in the lineup. He had chemistry with both Hronek and Seider.
We don't have consistent players other than Larkin and Maatta. Husso has been the MVP, but has had some bad games and some bad goals.