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Hypothetical: If Ovechkin reaches 950 or 1000 goals, is he top ten all-time?

NVious said:
You can have him top 10 all time already, it's a personal thing. Ovechkin is honestly one of the most unique athletes in sports to:
1.Be the greatest goal scorer of all time
2.Be one of the best hitters of all time
3.Be one of the most durable players of all time
4.Be one of the best career (longevity) players of all time

It's an insane combination, so it comes down to personal taste
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Howe is pretty close to that too
 
Crosby2010 said:
I'd have Sid ahead of him. It isn't by an outlandish margin, but it is by a margin. Ovechkin broke a storied record, but we are forgetting Sid broke a Gretzky record this year too. It showed his remarkable consistency/greatness. Hard to go wrong with either, but from a PPG standpoint you have to still take Sid.
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The only thing Sid has on ovey is being canadian and therefore more international success. The ppg record is pretty weak when it includes like 6 seasons under 80 points.
 
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pi314 said:
Massively overrated.

Top 10?

At stats?

Sure.

At winning?

I can think of 25 players that would better help you win a must win game 7.

He’s no more a top 10 guy than Brett Hull was.

Fun to watch. Greatest scorer.

But what actually matters is not pure stats, but a player’s net effect on the ice.

And there is this whole other part of the game called defense where he’s arguably the worst floater of the modern era.

Hockey isn’t just stats.
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Ha ok nice take
 
Who the hell cares who is #5 all-time right now? Ovechkin, Crosby, whatever—they’re all just keeping that spot warm for a couple of months before McDavid closes off the top 5 for at least the next half century.
 
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GirardSpinorama said:
The only thing Sid has on ovey is being canadian and therefore more international success. The ppg record is pretty weak when it includes like 6 seasons under 80 points.
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The only thing Crosby has over OV is being a better player over his career on a more consistent basis.

OV is top 10 for sure but he disapeared from the NHL best player discussions in 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017.

That is 5 years in his entire prime he wasnt a top 5/10 player leaguewide

He became a pure goal scorer who won the rocket 9 times. But his hart votes and ross finishes over those 9 rockets come mainly from his small prime period of 2008-2010.

After that he was trailing Crosby for the next 7/8 years where Crosby was routinely being discussed as best player in the NHL who got hurt by his 3 year prime missed due to injuries

2006 - 2010

OV has 269G + 260A =529 (1st in league) pts in 396 games +65 and 1.34ppg (2nd in league)

Crosby has 183G + 323A = 506 pts (3rd in league) in 371 games +45 = 1.36 ppg (1st in league)

This period OV is better season by sesson and over 5 year cumulative period he is minimally behind in ppg while being an elite play driver and offense driver woth strong +/-.

2011 - 2017 stretch

OV has 289G + 217A =506 (3rd in league) pts in 525 games +20 and 0.96ppg (6th in league)

Crosby has 199G + 322A = 521 pts (2nd in league) in 411 games +120 = 1.27 ppg (1st in league)

This period OV vs Crosby comparison dies. Crobsy is better by a wide amount season by season and over 6 year cumulative period he is a lot behind in ppg while being reduced as a play driver and offense driver with weak +/- and 5v5 impacts despite winning 4 rockets here. Crosby after 5 years of being 2nd best player in the league in a total basis from 06 to 10 steps up and is clear cut best player in the league by a fairly signifcant margin for next 7 years.

2018 - 2025

OV has 337G + 248A =585 (17th in league) pts in 567 games -24 and 1.03ppg (20th in league)

Crosby has 241G + 415A = 656 pts (9th in league) in 567 games +31= 1.27 ppg (11th in league)

This period crosby is still the better player overall but OV narrows the gap from previous 7 year period and makes it closer with 3 more rockets won. Ov remains a pure goal scorer and limited play driver and offense driver this period especially vs Crosby.

If you look over these three perods their ranks as players league wide would be

2006-2010: OV = 1st, Crosby = 2nd
2011-2017: OV = 4th-6th, Crosby = 1st
2018-2025: OV = ~15th, Crosby=, ~10th

Crosby has the all time consistency in production with him being a top ~10 player in his 30s in the league. OV's consistency in goal scoring makes him the GOAT goal scorer but he had to adapt to that style as his prime self was lost and he couldnt keep up with the very best players in the league from 2011 onwards while Crosby maintained that standard until 2017ish
 
Video Nasty said:
Who the hell cares who is #5 all-time right now? Ovechkin, Crosby, whatever—they’re all just keeping that spot warm for a couple of months before McDavid closes off the top 5 for at least the next half century.
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Mcdavid was #5 last year after the best playoff run in NHL history

No 80s era Gretzky run was more dominant than 97 and neither was Lemiuex's run from 90s even though they may have had better ppg.

He went crazy in R3 and R4 when Draisaitl faded (partially due to his injury) and almost got the Oilers a cup after being down 3-0 in SCFs. To be able to get that far/close to a cup when the Oilers were considered undeedogs vs Stars and Panthers is exceptional. Him, bouchard and Skinner were incredible vs Stars in the WCF last year.

Mcdavid is #5 player all time. Just like OV in 2018 was top 10 even if he didnt win a cup. For OV he didnt do much 2018 onwards as an overall player in the league. He won another 2 rockets but was ~15th best player over the 2019-2025 period.

Mcdavid still has 4 more years before he ends his age 32 season (OVs 2017/2018 season comparable). He has major opportunities to further his all time legacy still.

Mcdavid current year does hurt him but it isnt in a comparison to Crosby (6th to 8th) or OV (9th/10th) its to Orr/Howe/Lemieux who he has every chance to end up Greater than if he can add another 6-10 awards (really 3 more years of being best player in the league with a cup in their somewhere)

He gets 2 more rosses/2 harts/2 lindsays/maybe a rocket + 1 cup+smythe and hes the 2nd greatest ever after 99 (he isnt better player than Lemieux all time for me even in this scenerio, but Lemieux missed to many games so he wouldnt be able to hold on over 97 with 7 rosses/6 lindsays/5 harts/2 smythes)

He is 4th in league ppg this year but he should be #1 as hes only 28.

Next 3-4 years will determine if he can end #2 all time. He has the capacity to win all those awards next 2 years. Win the reg season hardware, and a cup+smythe and he's #2 all time to a dude with just too many awards/outright peer dominance to ever beat
 
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hamzarocks said:
Mcdavid was #5 last year after the best playoff run in NHL history

No 80s era Gretzky run was more dominant than 97 and neither was Lemiuex's run from 90s even though they may have had better ppg.

He went crazy in R3 and R4 when Draisaitl faded (partially due to his injury) and almost got the Oilers a cup after being down 3-0 in SCFs. To be able to get that far/close to a cup when the Oilers were considered undeedogs vs Stars and Panthers is exceptional. Him, bouchard and Skinner were incredible vs Stars in the WCF last year.

Mcdavid is #5 player all time. Just like OV in 2018 was top 10 even if he didnt win a cup. For OV he didnt do much 2018 onwards as an overall player in the league. He won another 2 rockets but was ~15th best player over the 2019-2025 period.

Mcdavid still has 4 more years before he ends his age 32 season (OVs 2017/2018 season comparable). He has major opportunities to further his all time legacy still.

Mcdavid current year does hurt him but it isnt in a comparison to Crosby (6th to 8th) or OV (9th/10th) its to Orr/Howe/Lemieux who he has every chance to end up Greater than if he can add another 6-10 awards (really 3 more years of being best player in the league with a cup in their somewhere)

He gets 2 more rosses/2 harts/2 lindsays/maybe a rocket + 1 cup+smythe and hes the 2nd greatest ever after 99 (he isnt better player than Lemieux all time for me even in this scenerio, but Lemieux missed to many games so he wouldnt be able to hold on over 97 with 7 rosses/6 lindsays/5 harts/2 smythes)

He is 4th in league ppg this year but he should be #1 as hes only 28.

Next 3-4 years will determine if he can end #2 all time. He has the capacity to win all those awards next 2 years. Win the reg season hardware, and a cup+smythe and he's #2 all time to a dude with just too many awards/outright peer dominance to ever beat
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Preaching to the choir, friend. He’s in my top 5 already. I was speaking more of the hockey world at large who will flip their narrative the very second he wins the Cup. We saw even the most die hard Penguins fans around here losing their minds after Games 4 and 5 last year serve as foreshadowing for what is to come.
 
Crosby has a very good chance of finishing top 10 in scoring for the 13th time. In comparison ovechkin has done that 8 times.
 
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Believe he ready is right around that 10ish range. Don't see any further moving up the rankings before he retires.
 
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Rusty8719 said:
Top 5 in no order:

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Crosby
Ovechkin

A Mount Rushmore is where it gets hard.
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Mr. Hockey himself, Gordie Howe?

Gerulaitis said:
Upset Penguins/Crosby fans are trying to steal the show. Though it's over.

Caps are the best in the conference. Where is Pittsburgh?

Everybody is talking about Ovechkin and his incredible record. Crosby has been forgotten.

I understand your pain ... 😉
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I'm not sure I am following here. Crosby is in the top 10 in scoring - this season.
 
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GirardSpinorama said:
The only thing Sid has on ovey is being canadian and therefore more international success. The ppg record is pretty weak when it includes like 6 seasons under 80 points.
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Canadian has nothing to do with it in my mind. I've always loved Ovie as well. If I were nitpicking and had to pick one to start a career I pick Crosby. He's been more consistent, never really had a lull in his career and is a centre. There are other things he's done such as better defense, faceoffs, better playoff resume, etc. It's close, and really we should be blessed to have seen both of them for so long but Crosby has just had more years as being at or near the top of being the best player in the game.
 
hamzarocks said:
The only thing Crosby has over OV is being a better player over his career on a more consistent basis.

OV is top 10 for sure but he disapeared from the NHL best player discussions in 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017.

That is 5 years in his entire prime he wasnt a top 5/10 player leaguewide

He became a pure goal scorer who won the rocket 9 times. But his hart votes and ross finishes over those 9 rockets come mainly from his small prime period of 2008-2010.

After that he was trailing Crosby for the next 7/8 years where Crosby was routinely being discussed as best player in the NHL who got hurt by his 3 year prime missed due to injuries

2006 - 2010

OV has 269G + 260A =529 (1st in league) pts in 396 games +65 and 1.34ppg (2nd in league)

Crosby has 183G + 323A = 506 pts (3rd in league) in 371 games +45 = 1.36 ppg (1st in league)

This period OV is better season by sesson and over 5 year cumulative period he is minimally behind in ppg while being an elite play driver and offense driver woth strong +/-.

2011 - 2017 stretch

OV has 289G + 217A =506 (3rd in league) pts in 525 games +20 and 0.96ppg (6th in league)

Crosby has 199G + 322A = 521 pts (2nd in league) in 411 games +120 = 1.27 ppg (1st in league)

This period OV vs Crosby comparison dies. Crobsy is better by a wide amount season by season and over 6 year cumulative period he is a lot behind in ppg while being reduced as a play driver and offense driver with weak +/- and 5v5 impacts despite winning 4 rockets here. Crosby after 5 years of being 2nd best player in the league in a total basis from 06 to 10 steps up and is clear cut best player in the league by a fairly signifcant margin for next 7 years.

2018 - 2025

OV has 337G + 248A =585 (17th in league) pts in 567 games -24 and 1.03ppg (20th in league)

Crosby has 241G + 415A = 656 pts (9th in league) in 567 games +31= 1.27 ppg (11th in league)

This period crosby is still the better player overall but OV narrows the gap from previous 7 year period and makes it closer with 3 more rockets won. Ov remains a pure goal scorer and limited play driver and offense driver this period especially vs Crosby.

If you look over these three perods their ranks as players league wide would be

2006-2010: OV = 1st, Crosby = 2nd
2011-2017: OV = 4th-6th, Crosby = 1st
2018-2025: OV = ~15th, Crosby=, ~10th

Crosby has the all time consistency in production with him being a top ~10 player in his 30s in the league. OV's consistency in goal scoring makes him the GOAT goal scorer but he had to adapt to that style as his prime self was lost and he couldnt keep up with the very best players in the league from 2011 onwards while Crosby maintained that standard until 2017ish
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Assists are a pretend, made-up stat to make secondary players feel better about themselves. Goals are literally all that matter on the score board.

Counting those two things as equal is just as dumb as ranking players based on the number of cups won.
 
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Rusty8719 said:
I have to include Crosby and Ovechkin in my top 5, and unfortunately Gordie get's the bump.
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I don't think you can bump Gordie here. 20 straight seasons as a top 5 scorer, 6 scoring titles, 6 Harts. We marvel at Crosby's PPG consistency and it is something else for sure, but Howe's streak is much more impressive.
 
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