Hypothetical/Fun: Trading Kopitar, Doughty and Quick

[tomd]

That's a fair assessment, and the reason the Kings should have approached Doughty about it being his team going forward and never signed Kopitar to his current contract.

Kopitar was a trade chip which would have started an actual retool, and Kings management blew it. Now the Kings are in a position where they have to legitimately ask themselves can they become cup contenders in the next 5-6 years with Doughty and Kopitar (his contract is the immovable object) on the roster. I wonder if the recent frustration Doughty expressed regarding effort, followed by the Kopitar quote basically saying the effort is there every game, will lead to Doughty asking for a trade. If that happens, the Kings are not going to get full value for Doughty as he can call his shot on where he wants to go.

If teams have inquired regarding Quick, Blake better listen, then check around the NHL to see what the best deal is, then move him.

Looking around the league, I see very few contending teams that would benefit by adding Quick...especially if Blake demanding a lot in return. Calgary is one but their cap situation after this season would make it tough. Philly is another but they really aren't a true contender if with Quick. Outside of that, there doesn't seem to be much of a market unless the price were pretty low.

 

[KINGS17]

Looking around the league, I see very few contending teams that would benefit by adding Quick...especially if Blake demanding a lot in return. Calgary is one but their cap situation after this season would make it tough. Philly is another but they really aren't a true contender if with Quick. Outside of that, there doesn't seem to be much of a market unless the price were pretty low.

Well, there's two you thought of right off the bat, and injuries happen.

 

[tomd]

Well, there's two you thought of right off the bat, and injuries happen.

A wing and a prayer, eh? Good a plan as any they have right now I guess.

 

[deaderhead28]

Unfortunately none of this is going to happen as it was stated the organization isnt moving moving Brown,Kopi and Doughty.

 

[Herby]

Unfortunately none of this is going to happen as it was stated the organization isnt moving moving Brown,Kopi and Doughty.

Things change, and even if Blake and Luc are delusional enough to think this team can contend all it takes is someone at AEG Corporate to ask why they are paying two assets a combined $21m a year and have the worst record in the league and an empty building (which Staples will be in 2nd half). Dean had one of the worst three year stretches I can ever remember a GM having and was fired by AEG, well Blake ain't far behind, these are two miserable seasons, and Blake doesn't have two Stanley Cup's to fall back on. If Blake/Luc sell contender again for next season to their bosses they both could easily be shown the door when they fail to contend, so it may be in their own best interests to start looking at the rebuild angle when communicating with their bosses.

 

[tomd]

Things change, and even if Blake and Luc are delusional enough to think this team can contend all it takes is someone at AEG Corporate to ask why they are paying two assets a combined $21m a year and have the worst record in the league and an empty building (which Staples will be in 2nd half). Dean had one of the worst three year stretches I can ever remember a GM having and was fired by AEG, well Blake ain't far behind, these are two miserable seasons, and Blake doesn't have two Stanley Cup's to fall back on. If Blake/Luc sell contender again for next season to their bosses they both could easily be shown the door when they fail to contend, so it may be in their own best interests to start looking at the rebuild angle when communicating with their bosses.

AEG isn't stupid and they can see as clearly as the rest of us that it was Lombardi's last 3 years that caused all the issues that Blake & Co. are now dealing with. They also know that there is nothing worse than having a franchise in LA with no star power. Trade Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar and what do you have? Basically zero assets to market the team with. Plus, in a cap world you have to take back salaries on all three of those players and you aren't going to get particularly attractive talent in return if you also ask for picks and prospects. You can't start making Hughes jerseys right now because at best they have about a 20% chance of being able to select him.

So what do the Kings do? They stick with the core and hope that this is just an aberration season. Add a free agent over the summer, select their top 5 pick, make a couple of trades, and take their chances. Thinking otherwise in just setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Fat Elvis]

The thing with trading Doughty is that he’s not on any age related declining projection, and he plays a position with historical longevity.

If you trade Doughty, you need to be absolutely sure of your return. Because the Kings won’t see another defenseman like him for another 20-30 years.

I've seen this written before, I agree about not seeing another dman in a Kings uniform as good as he is for decades. But the bolded part is a guess, just is. There's no such thing as historical longevity in sports. There's 1 Ray Bourque, One, and that's why he's so amazing. This stud played in over 1600 reg games and 214 playoff games. DD8 has played in 802 regular season games to go along with 84 playoff games. Most other HOF dmen are in the 1100-1300 games played. That's roughly 300-500 more games left for DD8 or 3-6 years, an estimate for sure. DD8 has been ridden extremely hard for the last 5+ seasons, the guy has a shelf life, we all do.

I think not to consider moving DD8 in the next couple seasons would be a "Kopitarian" mistake. Not saying deal him today, but it needs to be on the table for discussion.

 

[KINGS17]

AEG isn't stupid and they can see as clearly as the rest of us that it was Lombardi's last 3 years that caused all the issues that Blake & Co. are now dealing with. They also know that there is nothing worse than having a franchise in LA with no star power. Trade Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar and what do you have? Basically zero assets to market the team with. Plus, in a cap world you have to take back salaries on all three of those players and you aren't going to get particularly attractive talent in return if you also ask for picks and prospects. You can't start making Hughes jerseys right now because at best they have about a 20% chance of being able to select him.

So what do the Kings do? They stick with the core and hope that this is just an aberration season. Add a free agent over the summer, select their top 5 pick, make a couple of trades, and take their chances. Thinking otherwise in just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I think go back and replaying the summer of 2018 would be a big mistake, and a huge disappointment. The "extra fans" attending Kings games care about winning. They aren't drawn to the arena with thoughts of the special play or save Doughty or Quick might make.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I've seen this written before, I agree about not seeing another dman in a Kings uniform as good as he is for decades. But the bolded part is a guess, just is. There's no such thing as historical longevity in sports. There's 1 Ray Bourque, One, and that's why he's so amazing. This stud played in over 1600 reg games and 214 playoff games. DD8 has played in 802 regular season games to go along with 84 playoff games. Most other HOF dmen are in the 1100-1300 games played. That's roughly 300-500 more games left for DD8 or 3-6 years, an estimate for sure. DD8 has been ridden extremely hard for the last 5+ seasons, the guy has a shelf life, we all do.

I think not to consider moving DD8 in the next couple seasons would be a "Kopitarian" mistake. Not saying deal him today, but it needs to be on the table for discussion.

I don’t dispute that at all. But Doughty’s most accurate comparison - Chelios - did indeed have a ridiculously long career. Defensemen with high hockey IQs can find ways to be useful long past their physical prime.

But for sure, if there’s a smoking offer out there for Doughty, management needs to take a long hard look at it.

 

[Sausages]

Keeping Doughty is like continuously putting lipstick on a pig. Why? Why keep him..... just so no one else can have him? Honestly, the more he tries to rescue games singlehandedly the more bonehead turnovers and mistakes he makes.

Trade him for all he is worth right now. If the right move is available, trade everyone over 30 FFS.

The Kings' fans have seen how exciting a rebuild can be. Fans can accept losing as long as the product has potential. Let's do it again coz this team is done for good and the vets are sad to watch.

 

[BallPointHammer]

Various thoughts:
1. I see AK, DB, DD and JQ as 'thee Kings players' so to speak. Somebody(s) has to go. I think AK and JQ.
2. Obviously for rest of season shed dollars and years. Sacrifice the return if necessary. Can only afford a cup contending elite core of 3 players. (Doughty, xx, xx).
3. Play our young guys. A lot. Drop AK to 18 minutes and maybe he'll perk up. If guys like Ladue and Amadio aren't going to play try to get a return while they're still in the prospect realm.
4. Who is for real? As in REAL. As in a few years from now are bonafide NHLers. Vilardi, Clague, JAD, Kupari, Petersen, Brickley, others?
5. This 'can't turn a kitty cat into a tiger' or whatever DL harped on is over rated now. Talent (a couple more top 3-4 draft picks) is very important. With coaching and peer leadership guys evole into character players.
6. Do the Kings have to be the best defensive team??? The point is to win.

 

[Reaper45]

Unfortunately none of this is going to happen as it was stated the organization isnt moving moving Brown,Kopi and Doughty.

Where/when was this said?

 

[deaderhead28]

Where/when was this said?

John Hoven and Bernstein have mentioned it on several occasions.

 

[deaderhead28]

Where/when was this said?

 

[deaderhead28]

Where/when was this said?

 

[Sausages]

View attachment 164629

Well, if he said it...................

 

[Sol]

John Hoven speculation in OVER DRIVE CONFLATING SPECULATION AS LEGITIMATE RUMORS.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

HOWEVER, Mayor tweeted this 2 days ago....Carter would get this!! A 1st, 4th and prospect?? But deduct some for his age. (34 in 2 weeks)
Carter could be waived today and not be claimed. His cap is actually NOT a good thing.
No way Carter plays the last 2 seasons....or possibly past this one. But not the last 2.

The Mayor John Hoven‏ @mayorNHL
FollowFollow @mayorNHL
More
The Mayor John Hoven Retweeted Tyler Connors
Carter could be packaged w/others. Yet, for hypothetical discussion, if he went solo, start w/ Evander Kane UFA package (1st, 4th, prospect)... Then take a discount for age difference... Note: Carter also comes with favorable cap certainty, so that could be attractive to some.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It may take canning 20/4 to turn this franchise around.

 

[AbsentMojo]

To have the season flop this bad (fire the coach a few weeks in) means 20/4 are on the hot seat and maybe already be gone in the minds of AEG. WD is buying Blake time to make a new plan, but they may have already decided these 2 arent good enough to lead the team into the future.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Man, remember when this was hypothetical and fun?

 

[tomd]

To have the season flop this bad (fire the coach a few weeks in) means 20/4 are on the hot seat and maybe already be gone in the minds of AEG. WD is buying Blake time to make a new plan, but they may have already decided these 2 arent good enough to lead the team into the future.

I don't think they are the ones to be in charge of a rebuild but the fault of the current state of the franchise is not really theirs. It was pretty obvious back as far as 2014 (or even earlier in my case) that Lombardi was going to destroy this franchise in his attempt to create a dynasty.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Lets say the current regime did not have very good foresight into the hole they were put in by DLs poor decisions. DL put them in a huge hole with the pipeline gutting trades. Re-signing Sutter after after 2014 cup was a big mistake also on DL. But, it was clear that the Kings core and style was outdated when Blake decided to keep Stevens. Not having the foresight to retool when it was obvious the league was much faster and could nullify the Kings offense by not letting them get out of their own zone w a forecheck.. everyone I know that knows hockey was asking for them to start a mini rebuild after the 2nd cup.. waiting 4 more years to get it started was a giant organizational failure.. and Blake being GM has to take some responsibility for not acting sooner. I will agree that he should not shoulder the majority of the blame.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The time for blaming Dean and Darryl is done IMO. Deans fatal flaw was not being cold blooded enough with his players, but he got the ultimate wins, which will be his lasting legacy.

2019 is upon us, and the cupboard is close to bare for the Kings. The cup hangover is done with Kovalchuk fiasco, and to Blake’s credit he didn’t try and punch above his weight by dealing picks. However, he’s shown nothing to date that he will be ruthless with anchor contracts when given the opportunity.

The Gaborik deal was a punt at best. The Pearson deals only value was addressing a cap space issue next year because of the Kovy signing and Doughty raise.

He is literally selling fans the same dumpster diving strategy that Dave Taylor used to trot out. Looking for gold in the refuse pile. Undrafted guys in their 20s and now waiver wire try outs.

While anchoring the team with more contracts that pay guys based on their history and not their future. He’s acted as nothing better than a yes man and caretaker GM.

At least in the last dark era, AEG had Tim Liewiecke out there addressing the teams performance issues to the fans. You knew where the buck stopped and to his credit, after the lockout which brought in the cap, he fired Dave Taylor after another year missing the playoffs. And he hired DL.

Now we are told to listen to fan mascot Luc out there aww shucking it up and the literal embodiment of an empty corporate suit named Dan Beckerman, who probably doesn’t even watch the games, explain how this team is going to be successful.