Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[tarheelhockey]

Only issue I have with this is that the NHL is the most gate-driven of the top 4 pro-leagues. That sweet deal Canes have with the CenAuth can be sweet as sugar but it only compensates for some lose of the revenue due to success at the gates.

And it's only a fraction of the income of Gale Force Holdings, which makes money off ALL arena events.

A less-than-average crowd for a Canes game is not going to sink the entire arena management entity.

 

[Mightygoose]

Sportsnet picks up the story via John Shannon....i.e. the voice of the league to

Carolina Hurricanes confirm sale talks with Dallas billionaire - Sportsnet.ca

Stresses IF the sale happens, it will be for controlling interest. Premature to say that a deal is close to finalizing.

Don't expect any major news on this front at next week's BoG meeting but this will fill in the crickets post-Greenburg for now.

 

[madhi19]

This is starting to sound oddly familiar. Gary rolodex is turning up new fools to replace the old faces.

 

[Slashers98]

Why hasn't John Shannon got that scoop first if he's the league's mouthpiece? I find it funny that he always chimes in a couple hours after a big news related to the Hurricanes, the Panthers or the Coyotes!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why hasn't John Shannon got that scoop first if he's the league's mouthpiece? I find it funny that he always chimes in a couple hours after a big news related to the Hurricanes, the Panthers or the Coyotes!

I think it's a case where none of this is supposed to leak out, but when it does, they have to react / report. If you listen to the Waddell interview, he is asked about suitors and says he will not violate his NDA. He also said in another interview that the parties (Greenberg's group in one case) is who leaked this information out.

So Greenberg news comes out, and then within a day, the Canes come out with it through media sources. Now, the RDS story comes out and suddenly Waddell and others have to respond.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No doubt I don't trust PK much. Waddell today did come right out and said there are 4. Greenberg, Dundon and 2 others he refused to name, but came right out and said they are not local, they are not from Quebec, and that any suitors understand that the team would remain in Raleigh after the sale. He said all of the groups have been to Raleigh to watch game also.

 

[TheLegend]

Why hasn't John Shannon got that scoop first if he's the league's mouthpiece? I find it funny that he always chimes in a couple hours after a big news related to the Hurricanes, the Panthers or the Coyotes!

I think it's a case where none of this is supposed to leak out, but when it does, they have to react / report. If you listen to the Waddell interview, he is asked about suitors and says he will not violate his NDA. He also said in another interview that the parties (Greenberg's group in one case) is who leaked this information out.

So Greenberg news comes out, and then within a day, the Canes come out with it through media sources. Now, the RDS story comes out and suddenly Waddell and others have to respond.

Nice summary.

It isn’t like Shannon has himself parked in the league office as a fly on the walk privy to everything that goes on. But like any person in the media when a story breaks somewhere everyone else has to respond.

And thanks to the internet it now turns into a choir of sea gulls snatching and grabbing news bits from each other.

 

[aqib]

No doubt I don't trust PK much. Waddell today did come right out and said there are 4. Greenberg, Dundon and 2 others he refused to name, but came right out and said they are not local, they are not from Quebec, and that any suitors understand that the team would remain in Raleigh after the sale. He said all of the groups have been to Raleigh to watch game also.

If the groups have been to Raleigh to watch games then it shouldn't be too hard for the media to figure out who they are. There aren't too many people at the games.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If the groups have been to Raleigh to watch games then it shouldn't be too hard for the media to figure out who they are. There aren't too many people at the games.

1) you assume there is that much media here in Raleigh.
2) even with that, how would they know who some random guy (Dundon for example) is? For all they knew, Greenberg was still the main story. As an example, at one point I worked for a company where we were trying to sell part of the business and rumors had somewhat leaked out. I picked up the guys from the other company at the airport for a day of negotiation, brought them into the office, where they were seen by many. Given that we had guys (customers and suppliers) coming in and out of the office all the time, nobody even had a clue what they were their for. Same goes here. Barely anyone knows what guys are or are not in the owners box on a nightly basis. There's virtually no way we, or the media, would know every person who is in the owner's box on a nightly basis.
3) Nice dig at the attendance. Like guys coming to buy the team would be sitting in the same seats as the general public.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If the groups have been to Raleigh to watch games then it shouldn't be too hard for the media to figure out who they are. There aren't too many people at the games.

Why even say something like that? Hold yourself to a higher standard.

 

[aqib]

1) you assume there is that much media here in Raleigh.
2) even with that, how would they know who some random guy (Dundon for example) is? For all they knew, Greenberg was still the main story. As an example, at one point I worked for a company where we were trying to sell part of the business and rumors had somewhat leaked out. I picked up the guys from the other company at the airport for a day of negotiation, brought them into the office, where they were seen by many. Given that we had guys (customers and suppliers) coming in and out of the office all the time, nobody even had a clue what they were their for. Same goes here. Barely anyone knows what guys are or are not in the owners box on a nightly basis. There's virtually no way we, or the media, would know every person who is in the owner's box on a nightly basis.
3) Nice dig at the attendance. Like guys coming to buy the team would be sitting in the same seats as the general public.

Apparently I need a sarcasm font. For the record I was not expecting media guys to know everyone who shows up to a Hurricanes game and therefore be able to spot a "new person" in the crowd and automatically figure out that that new person is there to buy the team. It was a joke.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Apparently I need a sarcasm font. For the record I was not expecting media guys to know everyone who shows up to a Hurricanes game and therefore be able to spot a "new person" in the crowd and automatically figure out that that new person is there to buy the team. It was a joke.

Sometimes, you not only need the joke to be good, but need to know when and where to tell it. A thread in which countless fans have made similar comments about the Canes market, attendance, etc..and people are generally sensitive about the issue, means there's a very high likelihood that your post, as written, would not be taken as a joke. Clearly I'm not the only one that saw it that way based on another post right after mine.

 

[aqib]

Sometimes, you not only need the joke to be good, but need to know when and where to tell it. A thread in which countless fans have made similar comments about the Canes market, attendance, etc..and people are generally sensitive about the issue, means there's a very high likelihood that your post, as written, would not be taken as a joke. Clearly I'm not the only one that saw it that way based on another post right after mine.

Yeah I guess there is a high likelihood that someone could have read my post and assumed that I actually expected the media that covers the Hurricanes to spot potential investors in the crowd, which even though it is the smallest in the league is still averaging 11,665 a night. Obviously, someone reading my post would be under the impression that I believe its the same 11,665 people that show up every night and that the media covering the games knows all 11,665 so that if 2 different guys showed up some night the beat reporter having scanned the crowd would notice these two new people and go "hey Bob and Phil aren't here, but there are 2 new guys I better get to the bottom of this and figure out who these guys are". Perhaps I should have added a or a so people would realize I was being sarcastic.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah I guess there is a high likelihood that someone could have read my post and assumed that I actually expected the media that covers the Hurricanes to spot potential investors in the crowd, which even though it is the smallest in the league is still averaging 11,665 a night. Obviously, someone reading my post would be under the impression that I believe its the same 11,665 people that show up every night and that the media covering the games knows all 11,665 so that if 2 different guys showed up some night the beat reporter having scanned the crowd would notice these two new people and go "hey Bob and Phil aren't here, but there are 2 new guys I better get to the bottom of this and figure out who these guys are". Perhaps I should have added a or a so people would realize I was being sarcastic.

Yeah, I guess in a thread (actually threads) in a forum where there has been a history of fans knocking the Raleigh market and making comments about attendance, people should easily know that your comment is different. As I said, in order for a joke/sarcasm to be successful, you nee to know where and when to use it. The only two posters responded and both failed to see the sarcasm, so clearly your sarcasm was missed by more than me.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

see that same post would have been funny if i made it but not if you made it

attendance jokes are OUR jokes, not yours

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

see that same post would have been funny if i made it but not if you made it

attendance jokes are OUR jokes, not yours

Yep. Some guys know how to tell a joke and some don't.

 

[BattleBorn]

Yep. Some guys know how to tell a joke and some don't.

As long as we move off from this one, I'm okay.

 

[aqib]

Yeah, I guess in a thread (actually threads) in a forum where there has been a history of fans knocking the Raleigh market and making comments about attendance, people should easily know that your comment is different. As I said, in order for a joke/sarcasm to be successful, you nee to know where and when to use it. The only two posters responded and both failed to see the sarcasm, so clearly your sarcasm was missed by more than me.

No tarheelhockey saw/understood the sarcasm he just didn't like it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ok, moving on.

 

[Glacial]

If the groups have been to Raleigh to watch games then it shouldn't be too hard for the media to figure out who they are. There aren't too many people at the games.

When a prospective owner is in a luxury suite, media cameras there wouldn't know it usually. It's not as if every tire-kicker is going to be seated behind the bench with a big nametag that says WANNABE OWNER.

Of course, luxury suites guests can be like Schrödinger cats. If we open the doors to see who they are, it might affect the outcome of the sale.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I agree. He never wanted to be the sole owner. And he wasn't for most of the time he's been involved with the franchise. Only after his previous partner died did he take full ownership...which coincides with the start of the sale rumors/actions. If this turns out to be true, then this probably gets him back to stake in ownership that he really wants: controlling owner for the decision making process but at about half the stake/risk. This also gives him the ability to make arrangements for a liquidation upon his death to satisfy his family concerns, as the "junior partner" could purchase the remaining ownership pretty easily. I bet PK is feeling pretty good about this assuming the valuation is anywhere close to what he was originally looking for (~$400M).

Here is what I don't understand. Why would Dundon want to buy into this type of situation? Why would he want to buy a significant, but non-controlling piece of the team? I can't imagine someone like him would fork over that much money for a situation where he can always be overruled on any decision. This is not a situation where he is helping out a friend from HS open a restaurant by investing $50-100K for a 30% share of the profits and the friend is running the show. This is a few hundred million he will be spending to let someone else have control.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Here is what I don't understand. Why would Dundon want to buy into this type of situation? Why would he want to buy a significant, but non-controlling piece of the team? I can't imagine someone like him would fork over that much money for a situation where he can always be overruled on any decision. This is not a situation where he is helping out a friend from HS open a restaurant by investing $50-100K for a 30% share of the profits and the friend is running the show. This is a few hundred million he will be spending to let someone else have control.

YEAH, BUT HOW MUCH OF THAT IS Gale Force though, not just Carolina....

 

[HisIceness]

Greenberg on the record about potential Hurricanes sale :: WRALSportsFan.com

Chuck Greenberg broke his silence late Wednesday night and spoke to WRAL via phone.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Here is what I don't understand. Why would Dundon want to buy into this type of situation? Why would he want to buy a significant, but non-controlling piece of the team? I can't imagine someone like him would fork over that much money for a situation where he can always be overruled on any decision. This is not a situation where he is helping out a friend from HS open a restaurant by investing $50-100K for a 30% share of the profits and the friend is running the show. This is a few hundred million he will be spending to let someone else have control.

Later reports came out that said Dundon WOULD own a controlling interest if the deal goes through. I'm sure in an ideal world, Karmanos would prefer to sell half, get the cash and own a controlling interest, but I don't see that as likely.

 

[MNNumbers]

It seems like a situation that is very much in flux. I would use the word unstable, but I don't think the franchise is unstable, just the circumstance.

This is Greenbergs take:
Karmanos wants to sell.
We agreed on a price.
A few months later, the price went up (a market test?)

I can understand Greenberg having trouble raising the cash. But there are questions in the rest of that:
Why in just a few months did the market go up? Literally nothing has changed in sports ownership. No other teams have changed hands. Nothing. So, the only possible answers are:
1- Karmanos was unaware of other interest (this seems impossible, given that the party line has always been 'lots of interest in the team')
2- Karmanos wants to sell, but also sort of "doesn't" in the sense that he can't find a way to be satisfied with what he is going to get out of it. He has mixed feelings himself.

No predictions, no guesses here. I just don't feel there is anything firm at all at this point.

And, Hutch, I would assume that any sale of the team includes all of Gale Force Holdings, since, if I remember correctly, the lease demands that the team ownership be the ones running the arena.