OT: Hurricanes Lounge XXXIX, Yeah, I get that.

[Blueline Bomber]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

In this case, yes. If the next time a group of white cops unjustly kill someone in their custody (or in pursuit or whathaveyou) and they’re fired and charged just as quickly, then we can talk change. But if I were a betting man, I’d bet those cops would have the “thin blue line” support that these officers do not.

 

[MinJaBen]

In this case, yes. If the next time a group of white cops unjustly kill someone in their custody (or in pursuit or whathaveyou) and they’re fired and charged just as quickly, then we can talk change. But if I were a betting man, I’d bet those cops would have the “thin blue line” support that these officers do not.

You can really only compare the outcomes if it is in Memphis. If the white cops are in another city and treated a different way, do we know they would have treated black cops the same or different? Too many people conflate what happens in Bumf***nowhere to what happens in Timbuktoo, when really they are completely separate.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

This was a post on another (non canes/hockey) board I`m on. Sheds some light into cable programming costs. Thought it would be of interest here. [A repost from a few years ago]

"I manage a small (and getting smaller every day as subscribers cut the cord) cable TV system in North Carolina. I dropped the Fox Sports Carolinas almost a decade ago because of the high programming fees FOX was wanting back then. I'm sure it's got to be north of $9 per month by now if not over $10, and they require it from over 85% of all subscribers whether they watch it or not.

We made the decision to drop it from our lineup because it got to a point where it had one football game per season for each of UNC/State/Duke/Wake and maybe one basketball game per week. ESPN had taken over the Sunday night games the year before, so now the content had been fractured over several networks. Those other networks gaining the games Fox lost were raising their price and Fox never adjusted their price when they lost games. Because we were eastern NC, we didn't get any MLB content because the MLB had to give the Orioles and Nats a certain number of households, so no Braves. My customers didn't have allegiance to the Orioles or Nats, so we never added MASN (who also wanted their pound of flesh). FOX Sports Carolinas also never had Bobcats content on the main channel, so we never had NBA content on our RSN either.

At the same time local broadcast stations began using retransmission consent rules to demand more for their content which drove programming costs through the roof and pushed up prices. Today, with the cost of a standard cable TV package hovering around $100 per month (and programming costs making up 90% of that) we are seeing a double-digit decrease in subscribers. And the sad part is that we are good with it. We are openly encouraging our customers to drop our cable service in favor of streaming services because we can't afford to cover the cost. We really just want to be an internet provider. Consumers have had it and are speaking with their wallets. Those graduating from college and high school now won't ever even subscribe to cable TV. Retransmission consent and sports rights got greedy and asked for too much. They overplayed their hand and I think at some point it all crashes."

 

[Unsustainable]

Tucker is a f***ing complete idiot. The funny thing is some here, think I'm that type of conservative and that I probably lap up his shit. No, LMFAO No. Between him and that traitor general he has on all the time who spouts Pejorative Slured shit, I've tuned him completely out. That stupid ass look on his face as he says "just asking questions" makes me want to smack the f*** out of him. He's the WORST kind of conservative. Same bin as people like John Bolton. Every so often he does have decent points on things, but he's as bat shit stupid as Joy Reid and the rest of that ilk.

See, I'm about as far from left leaning as you can possibly get when it comes to things like liberty, wokeism, and madates. Take the current situation with the ATF and their brace ruling. "We estimate that there are between 10-40 million between those sold as a firearm, or as an accessory in circulation, and we know we sent out approval letters and said these follow the law, but now we are making a "rule change" and if you don't admit you were a felon all along and take our 'amnesty' then you have to destroy the property we said you could have but now changed our minds about'. Granted, I know maybe 10% of people here even know about that issue, but there it is. That whole situation is being driven by one thing.

When it comes to Women's choice issues, or the enviornment, I could easily be considered a liberal. One of my biggest issues is how Omega Protein is destroying the Chesapeake Bay in Va. The only guy trying to stop that is a libretarian Va house member from VB.

I'm actually a pretty diverse dude. I don't need it shoved down my throat or forced on me. That just makes me bitter, and want to resist. I pass the shopping cart test. I mind my own business, until people start talking shit or trying to shame me, or shove some sort of "ism" down my throat and claim im some kind of "ist" or bigot if I choose not to participate. I may not like you or your beliefs or your cause, but unless it effects me, I don't care.

Hell I went to echostage a couple weeks ago in DC to see my favorite DJ - that's my scene. It's about the most diverse crowd you can find at a music venue. I don't need rules or edicts or to be shamed into that. I don't need to be told I don't support gay people because I think pride night is a thinly veiled NHL revenue generator when I go to events where 30% of the crowd is probably gay. But if I wear a TDA jersey or support Provarov's choice, I'm a bigot? LMFAO. Nevermind that I did a volunteer training session for operation blazing sword after the puls club incident.

The media in this country is no longer unbiased on any network. None. It's ALL spin and tribalism. Its tell whatever story can rile up our viewers. Let's work people into a f***ing frenzy and then act shocked and gasp when someone has finally had enough and resorts to violence because their scales tipped from having less to lose than more. It's the media in this country that needs to be destroyed, though I don't know how you do it under the 1A. Until people are held PERSONALLY responsible, be that bad cops, the media, politicians who pass laws until a court somewhere stops them, or anyone else, NONE of this will stop. PERSONALLY accountable. Personal consequences. No more smug smirking when it comes to their doors.

I used to have boating accidents, but last was a rafting one.

 

[MinJaBen]

So I entered an exercise clinical trial this week being administered at Duke and a few other places around the country. They are going to look at the effects of different types of exercise on the cellular level for people that have had a pretty sedentary level of activity in the recent past. As part of the onboarding of the study, they put you through all sorts of physical activity tests. Today I had to do a VO2 Max test. That is not a fun test. I had to keep an RPM of between 60 and 90 on the cycle while the resistance was steadily increasing. I made it 12 and a half minutes before I cracked.

 

[hockeynjune]

So I entered an exercise clinical trial this week being administered at Duke and a few other places around the country. They are going to look at the effects of different types of exercise on the cellular level for people that have had a pretty sedentary level of activity in the recent past. As part of the onboarding of the study, they put you through all sorts of physical activity tests. Today I had to do a VO2 Max test. That is not a fun test. I had to keep an RPM of between 60 and 90 on the cycle while the resistance was steadily increasing. I made it 12 and a half minutes before I cracked.

Those tests are brutal.

 

[Borsig]

Of course, there’s the thought that the main reason these cops were fired and convicted so quickly was because they’re black, and there’s legitimate questions about if the same result would have happened if they were all white.

Oh for f*** sake

 

[LakeLivin]

Actually I think the thing that will end up driving me off my Libretarian pedestal is two fold - Gun control and mandates. I clashed with people in 2020 who would rather see me killed or imprisoned than simply leave me alone. I was told I'd bend the knee or I would be arrested. I was personally told by one activist in the town I live, that when said law (SB16 at the time - a confascatory ban on certain firearms) passed (It didn't) that at 12:01 on July 1 she would be calling the VSP on me and informing them that she KNEW I had firearms what would make me an instant felon, and she'd be standing down the end of my gravel road to ensure I was arrested, and that she wouldn't rest until I was. Imagine her surprise when she was served with a restraining order and threatened with a harassment rap. It wasn't funny anymore when I knew where she lived.

These are the zealots that drive people into the arms of the hard opposition.

People had to watch their relatives die on face time. For that, there will be no forgiveness, or forgetting - ever. My oma was 96 and spent 3 of her last 12 months out of contact with any family over this, and I will NEVER forgive those who were the cause of that, period. Ever. The thread that keeps me from being scorched earth toward people who hold these views is very thin these days, but I am trying hard to practice my own leave people alone and live and let live values. But at this point it won't take much more to cut it. It gets harder every day, and my tolerance, and patience wears thinner by the year.

I'm not sure the divide can be healed when it becomes so personal for so many people.

First off, I'm sorry about the way your family and oma experienced the last 3 months of her life, full stop.

Think about your filters in looking at this. Any consideration of the possibility that some of those precautions that prevented interaction may have also contributed to her even having all of those 12 months instead of falling to covid earlier? Look at how covid utterly devastated the elderly population of Italy. Or the hospital morgues in the U.S. that had to lease refrigerated trailers to handle the corpses they had as a result of covid, almost certainly many of them elderly and with other health issues.

How many more of our elderly population would have died without the mitigation procedures that were put in place until we were better able to manage the virus? Is it at all possible that without the lock downs your oma might have succumbed to covid, and you'd be furious at those that might have put in place policies that could have prevented it, but didn't?

I've learned that when bad things happen, many people almost need to be able to place blame, no matter if it's rationally justifiable or not (general statement, not directed at you specifically). The covid epidemic was a shitty situation, with a lot of shitty outcomes, period.

 

[Borsig]

First off, I'm sorry about the way your family and oma experienced the last 3 months of her life, full stop.

Think about your filters in looking at this. Any consideration of the possibility that some of those precautions that prevented interaction may have also contributed to her even having all of those 12 months instead of falling to covid earlier? Look at how covid utterly devastated the elderly population of Italy. Or the hospital morgues in the U.S. that had to lease refrigerated trailers to handle the corpses they had as a result of covid, almost certainly many of them elderly and with other health issues.

How many more of our elderly population would have died without the mitigation procedures that were put in place until we were better able to manage the virus? Is it at all possible that without the lock downs your oma might have succumbed to covid, and you'd be furious at those that might have put in place policies that could have prevented it, but didn't?

I've learned that when bad things happen, many people almost need to be able to place blame, no matter if it's rationally justifiable or not (general statement, not directed at you specifically). The covid epidemic was a shitty situation, with a lot of shitty outcomes, period.

They wouldn't let any one visit her at all. Luckily she got out and finally was able to pass at home.

The whole thing was bullshit and even with a negative test you weren't allowed to be with dying family, and were gate kept by trahsy ass people who thought they were heroes because they guarded the door at a rehab.

I won't discuss this further.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Oh for f*** sake

Which part do you disagree with? I mean, it's hard to argue that in past events like this, the punishment for the offenders were minimal and slow to roll out, if they were punished at all. Too often, they were put on temporary leave, or transferred to another police department, or retired early to keep their pension. Rarely were they fired, arrested and charged, and never as quickly as these officers were.

Now there are obviously many factors as to why these circumstances might be different, but given how systemic racism is a part of the police force in the US (and there's been many, many studies behind that), the fact that the black officers get fired and charged quickly, while the white officers have received slower or lesser punishments, it's worth a question if race played a factor.

 

[Deon Thompson]

You can really only compare the outcomes if it is in Memphis. If the white cops are in another city and treated a different way, do we know they would have treated black cops the same or different? Too many people conflate what happens in Bumf***nowhere to what happens in Timbuktoo, when really they are completely separate.

And meanwhile, the Cherokee shooting gets no media coverage whatsoever. #hillbillylivesmatter

 

[Blueline Bomber]

You do not want to see the videos. It’s important to know what happened and it’s REALLY important those officers never see the light of day again due to their actions in the videos, but for the sake of your mental wellbeing, I strongly suggest not watching the videos.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Those graduating from college and high school now won't ever even subscribe to cable TV. Retransmission consent and sports rights got greedy and asked for too much. They overplayed their hand and I think at some point it all crashes."

I cut the cord years ago. TWC kept raising the rates so I had enough. I bought an antenna, put it in the attic and got about 30+ channels over the air. I did SlingTV during the hockey season back when they carried the Canes and would cancel it after the season was over. I found other streaming options once sling stopped carrying it.

When I moved a couple of years ago, the new neighborhood had a package deal with Spectrum that included internet and TV in our HOA fees so I have no choice now, but I don't mind as it's a really good price. If I could, I'd happily go back to just over air stuff and streaming, and my wife would be happy with HGTV streaming service.

As for my kids who are post college, none of them have ever, nor will ever subscribe to cable TV.

 

[Borsig]

First I had cable. Then years ago I had DTV. Then I got sick of their rates and tried Dish for a year or two but they sucked. Decided maybe go back to dtv and then it was "sign a contract for - " No. f*** you. Then it was PS Vue. That shut down so we tried Hulu Live TV, that ran up so we started getting sling Blue for like $25 a month. Then it went to 30, then 35, and in Dec it went to $40. Nope. f*** you. Cut that off in December. Haven't missed it because we only watched like 2 channels.

I get Netflix with my t-mobile, and paramount plus for free wih something else we have, I don't recall. Either TMO or Walmart. I bought an antenna this week, will see what it does, but I live pretty far from any of the stations - the only ones in this area are the SEVA / Hampton roads ones that span the outer banks to the eastern shore.

Right now the only thing we pay for is like $8 a month for crunchyroll. I don't even pay for NHL games anymore because the f*** f*** games we played with regions and blackouts when I tried to subscribe to whatever service, and pay for it. It's like a puzzle game, and I refuse to play when you make it hard. Hell, even the days of center ice package the feed you paid for was so blurry it was like looking through a dirty window outside the rink.

I'm done paying for TV packages. I have no home phone, and the only thing I do get thru a local mafia is my internet, because TMO and Verizon 5G aren't here.... Yet. But that's coming soon too.

 

[Lempo]

I see you guys are having a presidential election today, @MrazeksVengeance

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

I see you guys are having a presidential election today, @MrazeksVengeance

With a good result to boot.

 

[bleedgreen]

Some things to think about when looking at the video. First my pov is that the guys involved are going to get what they deserve. They went overboard and the guy died, case closed. As someone who spends a lot of time on 911 calls, and who has been on many of these calls and has had to sedate people on these calls there are some things I noticed.

That they stood around forever is a big criticism. The fire dept arrived, and in that situation the victim in now in the fire dept’s hands. That’s why the cops are all standing around. They’re all waiting on the ambulance, because the fire engine crew can’t transport. They’re supposed to take care of things until the ambulance gets there. Once someone is subdued, PD does as little as they have to with them because it’s the medical crews job now and they don’t want to touch it anymore if they don’t have to. Everything I see after it’s done and he’s in cuffs by the car is pretty much standard on every single call like this. The delay is maybe on the fire dept. Being a busy city did they have an ambulance anywhere near by? Did the crew say they needed a bus lights and sirens or not? Getting one assigned would’ve had something to do with how they made that choice. It was said somewhere in there the ambulance was going to take forever, and in that situation everyone basically sets up camp. Was there more the fire crew could’ve done? That’s a good question. I haven’t seen enough of his medical reports to say, but it took three days to die which suggests a brain injury. Nothing would’ve changed that on scene.

The whole thing is awful, but I want to see the video of the original conversation between cop 1 and the victim to understand why it went this way. There’s no excuse for the outcome, but cop 1 was waiting for backup which is why as soon as cop 2 got there the door was opened and it was game on.

I don’t believe they ever had his hands, and I believe he was resisting that the whole time. People are saying because the victim is saying he’s not resisting they’re taking that at face value. People do that now, they know they are on camera and that it may matter so they say they won’t resist when they are resisting. He got up and escaped two or three strong guys, two or three strong guys couldn’t get the cuffs on him. He was resisting.

I don’t believe they realized how bad they beat him and that is a huge problem to me. They go too far subduing and feel they are justified because someone is resisting. That’s a problem too. I do believe the victim went for one of their guns, and that makes PD feel they are justified. That is wrong. This case has the opportunity to bring about change where it’s needed most, and that is the only sliver of a silver lining.

Since George Floyd and the general back off of Pd involvement that we’ve had around me, crime is skyrocketing. I’m up to my eyeballs in it every day at work. Defunding the cops will lead to chaos. The focus being on how they apprehend and subdue is where the change is needed. A big part of why there’s a chase in todays world is because people would sue PD and EMS because the people that got away would go on to do something horrible and PD/EMS would be sued for letting them go. They would be blamed for not handling it when they could. Now we’re on the opposite side of that spectrum. We need to let people go who are fighting and trying to escape and capture them later. This will of course lead to more horrible things happening but people have forgotten that’s what happens. They think everyone involved with the law is evil and it couldn’t be further from the truth. These idiots had no idea they had killed someone. I don’t believe they woke up thinking they would, and I don’t believe they want to. It’s in the culture that violence is acceptable when justified, and if they find the justification then so be it. That’s the change needed. Holding people responsible like this is a big step.

Ps I have to add that after he got pepper sprayed, there was no way he’s going to sit still. That’s a big part of them probably not being able to get his hands or get him as still as they wanted. Which is another huge issue. You can’t tell someone with a face full of pepper spray to stand still and not put their hands to their face. Anyone who has had a face full knows why. You’re not part of any conversation anymore, you’re in the suck and desperate to do anything to relieve it.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Maybe I'm helplessly naive, but I guess I just don't understand how five cops, focused on the problem of subduing one 150 pound dude, can't manage to get him cuffed whether they "have his hands" or not. They had his legs; they couldn't ziptie those first and then focus on his hands?

I understand that it takes force to subdue suspects that are resisting. I'm sure it's a harder job than I realize. But damn, y'all.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

They were saying "Give me your hands" as two officers held his arms behind his back while another laid haymakers to his head.

It's a two way street. Some may say "I'm not resisting" while doing the opposite, because they know there's cameras. In this situation, it looks like the officers are saying "Stop resisting" and "give me your hands" when the victim had no means to do so, because they know there's cameras.

I agree the EMTS deserve blame as well. The fact that the firefighters arrived and didn't (seem to) perform any kind of medical service to a guy that very clearly needed it, that's a big problem.

The aftermath was the worst part of the video. The officers celebrating what they did to the guy, and working on getting their stories straight in an attempt to justify beating a man to death, gang-style.

The immediate rage coming from the officers is another concern. The victim ran, and they weren't happy about that. It seems like they accidentally pepper-sprayed themselves and blamed the victim for that as well. Which, I guess in their mind, justified their actions.

 

[bleedgreen]

Maybe I'm helplessly naive, but I guess I just don't understand how five cops, focused on the problem of subduing one 150 pound dude, can't manage to get him cuffed whether they "have his hands" or not. They had his legs; they couldn't ziptie those first and then focus on his hands?

I understand that it takes force to subdue suspects that are resisting. I'm sure it's a harder job than I realize. But damn, y'all.

Well that’s generally how you know there’s more resisting than you’re seeing. People don’t realize how strong a motivated person is and how unmotivated the cops are by comparison and that makes a huge difference. Most of these calls I’m on it takes an officer on each limb to get them controlled at all. Four of them, for one person. Frequently. This is a very common misconception. Cops are lazy like the rest of us, they don’t want to work any harder than they have to. They don’t want the fights. Half these guys are way out of shape, they’re too big. Can you hear them huffing and puffing after running? They’re not the ripped military guys you may be thinking of. It’s not easy to hold down anyone that is desperate to get away, when you’re not nearly as desperate to keep them. I can speak from very personal experience here.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Well that’s generally how you know there’s more resisting than you’re seeing. People don’t realize how strong a motivated person is and how unmotivated the cops are by comparison and that makes a huge difference. Most of these calls I’m on it takes an officer on each limb to get them controlled at all. Four of them, for one person. Frequently. This is a very common misconception. Cops are lazy like the rest of us, they don’t want to work any harder than they have to. They don’t want the fights. Half these guys are way out of shape, they’re too big. Can you hear them huffing and puffing after running? They’re not the ripped military guys you may be thinking of. It’s not easy to hold down anyone that is desperate to get away, when you’re not nearly as desperate to keep them. I can speak from very personal experience here.

They seemed pretty motivated when they jerked him out of that car.

 

[bleedgreen]

They were saying "Give me your hands" as two officers held his arms behind his back while another laid haymakers to his head.

It's a two way street. Some may say "I'm not resisting" while doing the opposite, because they know there's cameras. In this situation, it looks like the officers are saying "Stop resisting" and "give me your hands" when the victim had no means to do so, because they know there's cameras.

I agree the EMTS deserve blame as well. The fact that the firefighters arrived and didn't (seem to) perform any kind of medical service to a guy that very clearly needed it, that's a big problem.

The aftermath was the worst part of the video. The officers celebrating what they did to the guy, and working on getting their stories straight in an attempt to justify beating a man to death, gang-style.

The immediate rage coming from the officers is another concern. The victim ran, and they weren't happy about that. It seems like they accidentally pepper-sprayed themselves and blamed the victim for that as well. Which, I guess in their mind, justified their actions.

At the end of the day I have no proof. I’m going on muscle memory and pattern recognition that I’m seeing. I don’t believe they would kick him while he’s down if he wasn’t still trying to move. Part of the problem as I mentioned late is the pepper spray. If he’s in the throes of a fresh faceful they aren’t going to get him cuffed easily, and they aren’t thinking enough to see that as understandable. To them it’s still a fight.

It’s very important to me that anyone that reads this that I’m not defending these guys at all. They get what they deserve. To me there was one moment that seals their fate. It’s the third video I believe and the cop is in rage mode after having his fat ass run that hard, has accidentally eaten some pepper spray which he reapplies to the kid multiple times. The kid is still fighting and starts to stand up, and this cop kind of indicates almost to let him go or stand up because the beating is coming. He takes his wand out and cracks him in the head at least once, if not twice. I’d bet you cash those were the blows that killed him. They deserve what they get.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Well that’s generally how you know there’s more resisting than you’re seeing. People don’t realize how strong a motivated person is and how unmotivated the cops are by comparison and that makes a huge difference. Most of these calls I’m on it takes an officer on each limb to get them controlled at all. Four of them, for one person. Frequently. This is a very common misconception. Cops are lazy like the rest of us, they don’t want to work any harder than they have to. They don’t want the fights. Half these guys are way out of shape, they’re too big. Can you hear them huffing and puffing after running? They’re not the ripped military guys you may be thinking of. It’s not easy to hold down anyone that is desperate to get away, when you’re not nearly as desperate to keep them. I can speak from very personal experience here.

This is not intended to make light of this situation in the slightest, but this comment made me think of how, depending on how cranky she is, it can take both my wife and I to restrain my toddler to get PJs on her before bed. Imagining a full grown adult putting up the same level of resistance - I buy the bolded statements no questions asked.

 

[bleedgreen]

They seemed pretty motivated when they jerked him out of that car.

That’s why I wanted to see the first guys video and understand why he’s so mad. He’s clearly been just waiting for the backup before yanking him out. How did it get there? It doesn’t change any of the outcome or the blame, but to understand what goes wrong and fix it I think you have to start there. Why the first cop was so pissed while waiting for backup.

You also have to understand the concept of a quick show of force early on getting the desired effect so there isn’t a longer interaction. Which they really don’t want. There’s no way in hell any of those guys wanted to chase that guy on foot. Get him down and controlled early. They couldn’t do it with two or three of them. He got up and ran off. He had to have had fought them off to do that. That’s their job to keep him there and he got through. That’s the real “resistance”. He had just said he wasn’t resisting and that he was done, and seconds later he’s off to the races. That’s what got them pissed.

Doesn’t make any of it acceptable. I think at that point you just let him go and try to catch him at home or something like that. It turns into a much bigger chase with a lot more effort after that, and that’s when it all goes really sideways.

Have they said anything about this guys bloodwork yet?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Another thing that's not been brought up is the reason for the initial stop, which was claimed to be reckless driving. The (now ex) Chief stated that after talking with the officers, she was "confused" about the reason for the initial stop. Her department reviewed footage, including from body cameras, to "determine what that probable cause was and we have not been able to substantiate that."