HURRICANES LOUNGE XLVIII

[MinJaBen]

Socialism-------middle ground------capitalism

 

[Unsustainable]

I recently had a conversation with my parents about the situation that many people face today with regards to owning vs. renting.

I asked them how much a house in their neighborhood recently sold for. They said 550k. I then asked them how much they spent on their first house. They said 75k. Finally, I asked them what minimum wage was when they bought their first house. They said "Probably the same as it is today." So now you know why people are forced to rent.

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Minimum wage just forces a company to pay someone. I would reduce Min Wage to 0.01 an hour, force companies and employees to negotiate fair compensation for jobs.

We could discuss how inflation has decreased the value of the dollar vs 50 years ago. Or how in 1964 min wage was 1.25 an hour, and a 1964 quarter is worth 5.35 now (26.75 an hour equivalent).


Or just expect the government to fix it right.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Minimum wage just forces a company to pay someone. I would reduce Min Wage to 0.01 an hour, force companies and employees to negotiate fair compensation for jobs.

 

[Unsustainable]

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And your point being?

 

[NotOpie]

Without going too much into the weeds, capitalism works but you need safeguards in place to not have it devolve into the rich taking advantage of and abusing the poor working class. The inherent nature of capitalism is those with money using that money to hoard everything for themselves, and you need the government putting regulations in place to prevent that from happening, because capitalistic economies have proven over time they are incapable of regulating themselves.

Government sponsored regulations (primarily economic when drilled down) are only effective when they address inefficiencies in the market place. Once the inefficiency had been reduced or eliminated, the pendulum can, does, and has swung the other way. Labor laws are a perfect example. In the 1st third of the 1900s, the monopolistic power many industrialists wielded created an inefficiency in the market (poor working conditions, low wages, lack of benefits, etc.). Laws that supported collective bargaining and the rise of unionization helped to level the playing field. As unions began to wield more and more power, they introduced a different set of inefficiencies (corruption, union shops, union states, etc.). Right to work laws have partially restored some of those efficiencies. Is the system perfect? No, but it is somewhat self-correcting.

State and/or local minimum wage laws often touted as providing for living wages, had their own unintended consequences, human labor being replaced by technology - hence a significant loss of jobs in the service sector (see: the rise of kiosks at fast food restaurants). I read somewhere that something like only 1.1% of all non-salaried workers work for minimum wage (or less). Given current levels of high employment, employers have to pay higher wages to attract employees. Again, this is a market self-correcting.

Lastly, the inherent nature of capitalism isn't the "hoarding" that you reference. The inherent nature of capitalism is that people act in there own economic self-interest. It's the basis of a trading economy.

 

[raynman]

I recently had a conversation with my parents about the situation that many people face today with regards to owning vs. renting.

I asked them how much a house in their neighborhood recently sold for. They said 550k. I then asked them how much they spent on their first house. They said 75k. Finally, I asked them what minimum wage was when they bought their first house. They said "Probably the same as it is today." So now you know why people are forced to rent.

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I understand your point and it drives me crazy but you can still find decent home prices in LCOL areas outside the Triangle. There are trade offs though like living in a rather boring/sleepy place with limited job opportunities and I’m probably stuck here forever unless my girlfriend secretly has a trust fund. My mortgage is peanuts in the grand scheme of things though so is it worth it? Kinda sorta? I do realize this is not feasible for everyone and I’m incredibly lucky but there are options if you can get out of the cities.

 

[Borsig]

I recently had a conversation with my parents about the situation that many people face today with regards to owning vs. renting.

I asked them how much a house in their neighborhood recently sold for. They said 550k. I then asked them how much they spent on their first house. They said 75k. Finally, I asked them what minimum wage was when they bought their first house. They said "Probably the same as it is today." So now you know why people are forced to rent.

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Now you know damn good and well min wage wasnt whatever it is now when a house was 75K. I also doubt anyone on minimum wage was buying a house back then either.

That being said, with what interest rates are today, I could not afford the house I have now. I also drive 45 min one way to work to avoid the taxation where I work. Why would I pay double the taxes to live in an urban shithole ridden with crime and shitty people?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

man you aint kiddin. My wife has recently discovered whatnot. We are trying to sell off excess shit on ebay, and were doing okay, and then big boxes of shit from wahtnot started appearing..... Ugh

That's marriage for you. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

You're out here fighting Marxism in these streets, and your woman brings it right in through the kitchen door.

 

[Borsig]

That's marriage for you. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

You're out here fighting Marxism in these streets, and your woman brings it right in through the kitchen door.

No one NEEDS this much shit. Though she did land a 3 pack of cool soviet era vacuum tubes in a lot of shit she bought for like 12 bucks. I sold them on ebay for 150. She had no idea what they were. Turns out, they are a sought after model and type for tube amplifier owners who are audiophiles.

So, kinda communist, I guess?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Now you know damn good and well min wage wasnt whatever it is now when a house was 75K. I also doubt anyone on minimum wage was buying a house back then either.

That being said, with what interest rates are today, I could not afford the house I have now. I also drive 45 min one way to work to avoid the taxation where I work. Why would I pay double the taxes to live in an urban shithole ridden with crime and shitty people?

You're right. Counting for inflation, what they made for minimum wage back then was actually higher than what minimum wage is right now. They bought their first house in 1975, when minimum wage was $2.10. Adjusting for inflation, that's the equivalent of $12.27 today.

Now, do most jobs offer you more than $12.27/hour today? Of course. Because, while it took a lot of pulling teeth, most employers realize that no one's accepting jobs at the actual minimum wage of $7.25. But because it's taken them so long to make that adjustment, and prices kept rising in the meantime, the new "standard" of acceptable minimum wage (usually around $15-16/hour) is still far behind what's considered a "livable" wage.

 

[Derailed75]

You're right. Counting for inflation, what they made for minimum wage back then was actually higher than what minimum wage is right now. They bought their first house in 1975, when minimum wage was $2.10. Adjusting for inflation, that's the equivalent of $12.27 today.

Now, do most jobs offer you more than $12.27/hour today? Of course. Because, while it took a lot of pulling teeth, most employers realize that no one's accepting jobs at the actual minimum wage of $7.25. But because it's taken them so long to make that adjustment, and prices kept rising in the meantime, the new "standard" of acceptable minimum wage (usually around $15-16/hour) is still far behind what's considered a "livable" wage.

But there's a large section of jobs that were never intended to provide a "livable" wage. They were stepping stone jobs intended to give you transferable social skills and work ethic needed to get said "livable" wage job. The entire reason that 20-30 years ago fast food restaurants were 90% high schoolers with management being the unusual exception. Now people are so damn lazy they think they should be able to afford a 6 figure home and a new car off of what McDonalds pays. That's not a minimum wage issue that's a entitlement issue.

 

[MinJaBen]

That's marriage for you. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

You're out here fighting Marxism in these streets, and your woman brings it right in through the kitchen door.

I had typed up a joke about the socialism of marriage this morning and then decided to bite my tongue. Glad I wasn't the only one to see it.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

But there's a large section of jobs that were never intended to provide a "livable" wage. They were stepping stone jobs intended to give you transferable social skills and work ethic needed to get said "livable" wage job. The entire reason that 20-30 years ago fast food restaurants were 90% high schoolers with management being the unusual exception. Now people are so damn lazy they think they should be able to afford a 6 figure home and a new car off of what McDonalds pays. That's not a minimum wage issue that's a entitlement issue.

It’s not entitlement to think that working 40-50 hours a week should be enough to live off of, regardless of what job you’re doing. And if you look at the link in that last post, it’s not just fast food jobs that are falling behind livable wage.

According to that chart, a single adult without children needs to make about 54k a year (before taxes). And a bit below that, you can see which occupations fall below that annual salary. Healthcare support makes 38k, Protection Services makes 49.5, Transportation makes 40, etc. Education barely makes 54k, and it’s probably safe to assume that includes managerial positions (like a principal or superintendent) and your average teacher probably makes well below that.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

It’s not entitlement to think that working 40-50 hours a week should be enough to live off of, regardless of what job you’re doing. And if you look at the link in that last post, it’s not just fast food jobs that are falling behind livable wage.

According to that chart, a single adult without children needs to make about 54k a year (before taxes). And a bit below that, you can see which occupations fall below that annual salary. Healthcare support makes 38k, Protection Services makes 49.5, Transportation makes 40, etc. Education barely makes 54k, and it’s probably safe to assume that includes managerial positions (like a principal or superintendent) and your average teacher probably makes well below that.

My wife was a lead researcher and project manager at NCSU for about 10 years backed by a multi-million dollar endowment, and her salary remained stagnant at $38k despite taking on additional responsibilities that effectively made her an Assistant Director because it needed to be approved by the government. She had to leave the role because it just wasn't worth her time anymore.

She should have been making 3x what she was but the state would not budge on raising the salary of an already employed state employee.

 

[Socks]

Hullo Caniacs anyone remember me? Your friendly Jackets fan who lived in the Carolinas for a while who then adopted the Canes as her team?

I’m noodling on something that I’m hoping someone might have some thoughts on, and it’s North Carolina specific so I thought somebody here might have an answer. I moved back to Ohio last year in May, and my former employers didn’t take my departure well. Among other things they were very upset I didn’t tell them when I first started considering leaving - mind you I first started thinking about it in January so they were essentially pissed I didn’t give 6 months notice (I did give 3 weeks).

Fast forward to now. I’m closing on a condo in a few weeks and the finance company is asking for my 2023 year end paystub along with my last stub from that job. I can’t log into adp myself to get it as they don’t service former employees. My former boss is refusing to give it to me. My understanding is I’m entitled to my pay information and they’re obligated to give it to me. Anyone know enough about this stuff to tell me if I’m right or wrong?

Obviously I wouldn’t hold anyone to anything, but I’m super pissed off right now and looking to hopefully be validated.

Anyway go Jerks!!

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Hullo Caniacs anyone remember me? Your friendly Jackets fan who lived in the Carolinas for a while who then adopted the Canes as her team?

I’m noodling on something that I’m hoping someone might have some thoughts on, and it’s North Carolina specific so I thought somebody here might have an answer. I moved back to Ohio last year in May, and my former employers didn’t take my departure well. Among other things they were very upset I didn’t tell them when I first started considering leaving - mind you I first started thinking about it in January so they were essentially pissed I didn’t give 6 months notice (I did give 3 weeks).

Fast forward to now. I’m closing on a condo in a few weeks and the finance company is asking for my 2023 year end paystub along with my last stub from that job. I can’t log into adp myself to get it as they don’t service former employees. My former boss is refusing to give it to me. My understanding is I’m entitled to my pay information and they’re obligated to give it to me. Anyone know enough about this stuff to tell me if I’m right or wrong?

Obviously I wouldn’t hold anyone to anything, but I’m super pissed off right now and looking to hopefully be validated.

Anyway go Jerks!!

I’m not a lawyer, but a quick Google search says they’re required by state law to provide employees pay stubs, but that the law does not require them to provide separated employees the same benefits. The only thing they’re required to provide separated employees is their final paycheck before the next payday.

However, they are required to keep their payroll records for up to 3 years (because of the Fair Labor Standards Act), so they should still have your pay stubs in their records. You can probably reach out to the State Labor Department, explain the situation and go from there.

 

[Socks]

I’m not a lawyer, but a quick Google search says they’re required by state law to provide employees pay stubs, but that the law does not require them to provide separated employees the same benefits. The only thing they’re required to provide separated employees is their final paycheck before the next payday.

However, they are required to keep their payroll records for up to 3 years (because of the Fair Labor Standards Act), so they should still have your pay stubs in their records. You can probably reach out to the State Labor Department, explain the situation and go from there.

Good thought. Thanks.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And socialist / communist economies cant even feed themselves and must be enforced at the barrel of a gun.

Notably, capitalism also must be enforced at the barrel of a gun.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Notably, capitalism also must be enforced at the barrel of a gun.

枪杆子里面出政权

 

[tarheelhockey]

枪杆子里面出政权

Weird, I got a tattoo in Cabo that says the same thing: “Best spring break ever 1997”

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

枪杆子里面出政权

HANK. Impertinent question. You got some Chinese heritage/loved ones or is it a hobby?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

HANK. Impertinent question. You got some Chinese heritage/loved ones or is it a hobby?

Language study is one of my hobbies. I'm good friends with a Chinese woman who was born during the Cultural Revolution (amazing woman with an amazing story) and she convinced me that Chinese was actually quite straightforward once you figured out the tones and the characters: no genders, no declensions, no tenses even.

My Chinese is utter shit, of course, but at least I'll have a good head start when we start selling off the various United States to them in order to settle our debt.

 

[HisIceness]

Weiterleitungshinweis

There goes our drummer......

Edit: the f*** is up with this website and these re-direct notices? It's a link to TMZ for crying out loud, it's not some x-rated site.

 

[Negan4Coach]

While I'm not sure I philosophically believe in the concept of a government enforced minimum wage- if we are going to have one, it should be indexed to increase with inflation at a minimum.

If you make it $20 an hour its going to put what remains of small business in the toilet. But $7.25 is a joke. It should be like $12. I mean they are paying that at most places anyway.

The root of the problem isn't the wage- its that service industry jobs have become careers for adults, when they are supposed to be for teens and younger adults working their way up to stable careers, not for a 40 year old single mom of 3 to try to support a family from. And that is because both parties colluded to deliberately destroy and offshore our manufacturing base to enrich the "credentialed classes" and bi-coastal elites.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The root of the problem isn't the wage- its that service industry jobs have become careers for adults, when they are supposed to be for teens and younger adults working their way up to stable careers, not for a 40 year old single mom of 3 to try to support a family from. And that is because both parties colluded to deliberately destroy and offshore our manufacturing base to enrich the "credentialed classes" and bi-coastal elites.

Why is any job "supposed to be" for a specific group? The reason why the service industry was for teens and young adults is because it didn't require much, if any, previous work experience. Why couldn't that apply to older people? Say your hypothetical mom of 3 married young, had a great life as a stay-at-home mom, but her husband recently passed. Would she not also have little to no work experience, and thus, need to find a job in the service industry?

Or maybe that 40-year-old single mom of 3 has a reason she works there for other reasons? Maybe it's the closest job she could find to her home, maybe she struggles with more complicated tasks, or maybe she just likes helping people. Regardless of the reason she's there, there's no reason why she shouldn't be making a livable wage if she puts in the work.

Now, on her part, she should know that it's unlikely for her to be fully independent on such a salary with four mouths to house and feed, and should strive to escape that situation, if it's possible to do so.

But as I showed earlier, even if we're talking about a single adult with no kids, no one to support but themselves, many jobs out there don't provide that basic livable wage, even outside the service industry.