OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLV: Y2K Twenty-Four Years Later

[hockeynjune]

Going to the game tonight. Hope I don’t get shot.

 

[Svechhammer]

And, all my Boomer friends paid back their student loans.

In 1975, the cost to go to UNC as an in-state student was $256 per year, and $1,800 out of state, with an additional $200 in fees attached to it. Adjusting for inflation, that's $1,500 in state, $10k out of state, with about $1k per year in fees.

The current cost of tuition at UNC is $7,000 for in state students and $40k for out of state students with an additional $1,700 tacked on in fees.

The average cost of a salary for a 4 year degree in 1980 was $15k, or about $57k in 2024 prices.
The average cost of a salary for a 4 year degree in 2024 is $43k.

The inflation corrected salaries for college graduates has actually fallen since the Boomers graduated while tuition for that degree has spiked 4x. So I don't really care that the Boomer generation paid back their debts. You have no idea what kids nowadays have to deal with. Their textbooks cost more than your education did.

 

[MinJaBen]

The conservative/anti-government politicians have for decades been doing this:

And a major note on this — the public sector is currently making the same changes, one institution at a time. For example, State of NC is gradually eliminating pensions in favor of a version of 401K matching.

The whole argument for going into the public sector used to be, you’ll make less money but the benefits partially make up for it in time, so it makes sense to commit and be a 30-year teacher or cop or whatever. That dynamic is being chipped away, one benefit at a time, to a point where there will soon be no incentive at all to take those jobs, and especially no incentive to make a career of them. This will be especially the case in sectors like public education which are explicit targets for de-funding and dismantlement.

The effect of this shift is enormous and will have multi-generational impacts on the economy and quality of life. Not simply that the institutions themselves are crumbling, but also that an entire sector of the workforce will shift out of stable, career-oriented, retirement-motivated long term employment. Everyone likes to complain about public workers but we are choosing to hurtle toward a reality where there will be no incentive at all to be a teacher or cop or social worker — and therefore the people in those jobs will be taking them as a last resort before unemployment. And anyone remaining in those roles long-term will be wildly behind the curve for retirement. Which means they’ll be a whole new class of people living hand-to-mouth on dwindling social security checks.

We’re talking about a big portion of the population here… over 13% of the workforce, with public education being the largest sector of the workforce by a huge margin. This is a catastrophe that’s just kind of festering under our noses because it’s happening in super-slow-mo, one policy update at a time.

So they can sow distrust in education and other government programs so their voters will believe their lies and do this:

I live amongst it and see the commentary and complaining about assistance, services ( or lack there of) on the daily and am often left aghast at the level of ignorance by some of these folks who probably are going to learn a hard lesson soon. I know people vote for all kinds of reasons but some of the cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics to validate the recent choice has been kind of soul crushing to me.

If this is true..I guess the FAFO phase has started early:

It is a long game that has really worked well for them. They now have a bi-polar population of voters: one larger poll of the mostly less educated and paycheck-to-paycheck that can be persuaded into voting against their own self interest through lies, and the much smaller population of voters that runs for political office or finances those running and gains from their policies.

Meanwhile, the centrists have had to make nice with the leftists, but can't always keep their coalition together and thus lose elections like in 2010, which became pivotal due to the adjustments to districts the 10 year census demands.

And if Project 2025 is fulfilled through legislation in a fully Republican government, it will only get worse.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Frankly, if even half the things from Project 2025 are implemented, it's going to be disastrous for most Americans. Though if the other side wanted to sway voters, they should have hammered the "Ban pornography" portion of it. I'm sure that would have changed some alliagences

 

[tarheelhockey]

To paraphrase @Boom Boom Apathy this is absolute bullshit. Okay, I guess not paraphrase, merely to quote.

Obviously every demographic is diverse with a range of beliefs and behaviors, and it’s unfair to just sweepingly say “you did this” to a generation.

But the source of the issue is the demographic bubble that literally defines the Boomers as a generation. This was their lifetime project to be concerned with, especially since they have had overwhelming political influence for most of their lives. The last time the solvency issue was addressed was in 1983, when a different generation was in power. To get to 2024 and have taken exactly zero action on it is worthy of scorn from the people who will have to live with the consequences.

And, all my Boomer friends paid back their student loans. The billions and billions of dollars being steered toward student loan forgiveness could have either been used to cut the deficit, implement favorable programs, or help shore up social security and medicare. So cry me a f***ing river.....

The total amount of federal loan forgiveness is $175 billion. The SS shortfall is $100 billion for this year alone. Yes you could take that $175M and cover social security for this and part of next year, but then what? SS is going to need many trillions of dollars to fix, and that’s not going to come from the logic of redirecting funds — it’s going to come from either reducing the benefits which we are owed from our investment in the program, or by raising taxes.

A big part of the problem is that benefit reduction won’t actually solve the solvency problem, just delay it by slowing down the erosion of the trust fund. In the long run, a full solution really has to involve raising taxes. But politically tax increases won’t fly in present-day America, especially not payroll tax increases which the Republicans will step in front of a train to prevent. So the insolvency issue will get worse, even in a best case scenario, because we don’t have the political will to save the system. That’s fine if you’re 65 right now, because stopgap measures will carry you through to the grave. If you’re under 40, you’re really screwed by this. You are paying 6.2% of every paycheck to fund someone else’s retirement. Again it’s very hard to ask a Millennial not to feel resentment toward the Boomers over this, as one group is very clearly profiting at the expense of the other.

Regarding loan forgiveness — that $175B (a small remainder of the original plan which was shot down by the Supreme Court) is for people who were scammed or screwed over by shady schools, who are on total permanent disability, or who have been in public service fields for a long time while making consistent payments. In other words, it’s a safety net for people who have no path to pay off mounting long-term interest even after they’ve paid back the original principal of the loan. This is one way that they’re trying to plug the holes and prevent workers from leaving public service (see discussion upthread), veterans ending up homeless, and other systematic failures that cannot be directly addressed because Congress keeps making things worse instead of better.

 

[hockeynjune]

Frankly, if even half the things from Project 2025 are implemented, it's going to be disastrous for most Americans. Though if the other side wanted to sway voters, they should have hammered the "Ban pornography" portion of it. I'm sure that would have changed some alliagences

I don’t think enough people read that. They will start that operation day one.