Proposal: Hurricanes - Canucks

[Finlandia WOAT]

No thanks, Carolina needs another top 4 defenseman. After a promising start, Bear has fallen off after recovering from COVID, and even with Slavin/Pesce a top 4 that includes DeAngelo and Skjei when healthy is a bit weak against Tampa, Washington and Florida.

One way I could see this happening though is if Carolina wants to bridge Necas while Necas wants a long term Ehlers comp deal, so getting Miller for 2 playoff runs is a way to "bridge" that depth scoring forward. But their forward depth is great right now, best since 2009 at least. They need another defenseman.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Necas is too established now to be part of that deal. Looking more at Jarvis.

but the Canes have cap room next season, it’s this season where it’s super tight. They even dress fewer than 18 skaters already this season due to Covid.

I would think the Canucks would rather take a player back like Stepan or even Fast who is under contract next season vs retain. Even neider to make the cap hit match.

Carolina is going to have to get creative if they wish to add barring someone landing in ltir for the remainder of the season.

Very misleading. They are projected to have $24M next year, but that's with only 11 players under contract.

1) They have to sign Necas
2) DeAngelo will want a sizable raise to stay
3) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Bear
4) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Trocheck
5) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Neidereitter
6) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Kotkaniemi
7) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Cole
8) Gardiner may not be on LTIR next year

They really don't have a ton of cap space next season as that $24M will be consumed in a hurry, UNLESS they are backfilling some of the departures with guys like Drury and Jarvis. Trading Jarvis doesn't make sense as he's young, cheap and already contributing, so he's not some prospect 3-4 years away and he will help their cap situation going forward.

I agree they'd have to get creative to make any adds as they are already using LTIR for Gardiner. They have $1.8M of deadline space so can probably add someone (as their cap add will be pro-rated), but they need to be very careful not to tie their hands for next year as it's going to be an equally difficult cap situation IMO.

 

[StreetHawk]

Very misleading. They are projected to have $24M next year, but that's with only 11 players under contract.

1) They have to sign Necas
2) DeAngelo will want a sizable raise to stay
3) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Bear
4) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Trocheck
5) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Neidereitter
6) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Kotkaniemi
7) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Cole
8) Gardiner may not be on LTIR next year

They really don't have a ton of cap space next season as that $24M will be consumed in a hurry, UNLESS they are backfilling some of the departures with guys like Drury and Jarvis. Trading Jarvis doesn't make sense as he's young, cheap and already contributing, so he's not some prospect 3-4 years away and he will help their cap situation going forward.

I agree they'd have to get creative to make any adds as they are already using LTIR for Gardiner. They have $1.8M of deadline space so can probably add someone (as their cap add will be pro-rated), but they need to be very careful not to tie their hands for next year as it's going to be an equally difficult cap situation IMO.

I would think Miller would take over the spot of a Neider or Troch. The other cap space would then go to Necas. As for KK, that’s up to him and the Canes to figure it out.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I would think Miller would take over the spot of a Neider or Troch. The other cap space would then go to Necas. As for KK, that’s up to him and the Canes to figure it out.

My point is that there isn't a ton of cap space next year, as you stated, even doing that. They have 11 players and 24M available while trying to compete for a cup. They NEED young, cost controlled guys like Jarvis to make it work.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Very misleading. They are projected to have $24M next year, but that's with only 11 players under contract.

1) They have to sign Necas
2) DeAngelo will want a sizable raise to stay
3) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Bear
4) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Trocheck
5) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Neidereitter
6) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Kotkaniemi
7) They will need to re-sign (or replace) Cole
8) Gardiner may not be on LTIR next year

They really don't have a ton of cap space next season as that $24M will be consumed in a hurry, UNLESS they are backfilling some of the departures with guys like Drury and Jarvis. Trading Jarvis doesn't make sense as he's young, cheap and already contributing, so he's not some prospect 3-4 years away and he will help their cap situation going forward.

I agree they'd have to get creative to make any adds as they are already using LTIR for Gardiner. They have $1.8M of deadline space so can probably add someone (as their cap add will be pro-rated), but they need to be very careful not to tie their hands for next year as it's going to be an equally difficult cap situation IMO.

If Gardiner is LTIR’d, it gives us another 4 million open for use.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Gardiner is LTIR’d, it gives us another 4 million open for use.

I know. It's bullet #8 on my list.

It doesn't make it "better" than this year though, as it's the same for both years if he goes on LTIR and the same issues I listed exist.

I'm not saying that they can't make it work, just saying that the statement "Carolina has a lot of cap space next year" is a very misleading statement.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Necas is a no. Jarvis is a no. Our 1st + 3rd belongs to MTL this year.

Go Fish.

 

[Canes]

No thanks, Carolina needs another top 4 defenseman. After a promising start, Bear has fallen off after recovering from COVID, and even with Slavin/Pesce a top 4 that includes DeAngelo and Skjei when healthy is a bit weak against Tampa, Washington and Florida.

One way I could see this happening though is if Carolina wants to bridge Necas while Necas wants a long term Ehlers comp deal, so getting Miller for 2 playoff runs is a way to "bridge" that depth scoring forward. But their forward depth is great right now, best since 2009 at least. They need another defenseman.

For sure. We need to keep Necas so we can complete your fantasy of trading half of our top 6 and half of our top 4 defense along with some our of best prospects for one of Eichel or Draisaitl. I especially like those posts from you.

 

[bossram]

There's not much of a fit made with Carolina. They're not trading Necas or Jarvis (understandably), their 1st round pick is already gone, and their remaining futures assets probably don't add up to make a package worth a retained Miller. Unless Canucks fans want something like Gunler + Keane + another prospect?

Despite being in Vancouver, I quite like the Canes. But they don't need Miller. A defenseman is more of a priority.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Necas is a no. Jarvis is a no. Our 1st + 3rd belongs to MTL this year.

Go Fish.

So Aho for Miller it is then

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Canucks fans hope that Carolina wants Miller more than Canes fans think that the team will. High end prospects/good young players are sparse on the types of teams that would be interested in trading for him. Can’t sell high if no serious clubs are capable of buying high.

 

[bleedgreen]

I wouldnt trade Necas for Miller straight up, adding someone like Drury makes it comical. 1st and a prospect is the standard ask, go from there. If you want two to three mid range prospects and a second the Canes are your team.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I wouldnt trade Necas for Miller straight up, adding someone like Drury makes it comical. 1st and a prospect is the standard ask, go from there. If you want two to three mid range prospects and a second the Canes are your team.

Yup. Pretty much.

Can have this years 2nd and some of Suzuki, Bokk, etc.

Or a 2023 1st and a mid prospect or two as well.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yup. Pretty much.

Can have this years 2nd and some of Suzuki, Bokk, etc.

Or a 2023 1st and a mid prospect or two as well.

Then let’s call it a square peg and round hole if it doesn’t match up for the 2 teams.

just move on.

no rush to move Miller unless it makes sense. Miller has no trade protection.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just for kicks, I decided to dig a little deeper comparing Necas to Miller on natural stat trick.

Miller's last season and this season combined:
All Situations: 84 points in 91 games played (2.63 P/60)
5v5: 37 points in 91 games played (1.7 P/60)
PP: 35 points in 91 games played (6.56 P/60)

Necas last season and this season combined:
All situations: 62 points in 86 games played (2.54 P/60)
5v5: 34 points in 86 games played (1.79 P/60)
PP: 14 points in 86 games played (5.37 P/60) - Necas is on the 2nd unit so doesn't get nearly as much time.

While Necas scored 22 less points total in 5 less games (driven by the PP), his scoring rates aren't very different from Miller's. Carolina has a much deeper roster so he's not getting as much TOI as Miller gets on Vancouver so it's probably fair to say that they score at similar rates 5v5. PP is hard to predict as more TOI may or may not lead to more scoring, but their rates aren't too far off so more TOI is a primary factor. . Until Necas gets more PP TOI, it's hard to say though.

I realize that Miller also brings other elements to the game and can play center, but Necas also has a speed element that nobody on Carolina has. Personally, I'm not sure the difference between Necas and Miller warrants the Canes moving Necas (or Necas+) for him particularly when you consider age, contract, and team control.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

f*** it.

Trade Miller to Tampa and watch them win another Cup.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

f*** it.

Trade Miller to Tampa and watch them win another Cup.

Eh. I think there’s a difference in resistance to trading a young player the caliber of Necas and Jarvis, both Top 20 on Pronman’s U-23 list, and saying no to a lesser asset, as some other fanbases are doing. If the Canes had something in between that tier and the Suzuki tier, there’d be room for mutual agreement. The reality is that Carolina’s prospect pool is built on a volume of recent late 1st/2nd/3rd round picks. Good for generating home grown role players, not so much for buying high in trades.

Any trade involving Necas or Jarvis needs to be on the money. The organization may not generate a young asset of that caliber again for a while, presumably drafting in the 20s regularly moving forward.

 

[elitepete]

Canucks fans hope that Carolina wants Miller more than Canes fans think that the team will. High end prospects/good young players are sparse on the types of teams that would be interested in trading for him. Can’t sell high if no serious clubs are capable of buying high.

Rangers, Wild, Avs, Oilers, and even Leafs have a bunch of young assets.

 

[TBF1972]

I wouldnt trade Necas for Miller straight up, adding someone like Drury makes it comical. 1st and a prospect is the standard ask, go from there. If you want two to three mid range prospects and a second the Canes are your team.

quite understandable, if you look at their career production:

miller 0.66 ppg
necas 0.63 ppg

carolina fan's have good reasons to believe, that necas will become the better player in the near future.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

quite understandable, if you look at their career production:

miller 0.66 ppg
necas 0.63 ppg

carolina fan's have good reasons to believe, that necas will become the better player in the near future.

As I showed above, the main difference in scoring is on the PP. Miller is getting 3:30 toi/gp on the 1st PP unit playing mainly with Hughes, Horvat, Boeser, and Pettersson. Necas is getting 1:50 TOI/GP on the 2nd PP unit playing with guys like Niedderreiter, Staal, Pesce (Slavin this year). Aho is the only top skill guy that Necas has any significant PP time with.

Problem is, that Necas's spot on the PP is the half wall or high slot. Those spots are occupied by Aho, Teravainen, and Svechnikov on the 1st unit and Necas isn't supplanting any of them.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

f*** it.

Trade Miller to Tampa and watch them win another Cup.

Not saying Miller isn't a desirable asset, just explaining why Necas (or even worse Necas+) doesn't make sense from a Carolina POV. Unless Carolina has bad contracts issues/negotiations with Necas, they'll likely want to hold on to him.

I'm sure if Tampa is the highest bidder, that's what JR will do. One question though, who is the Necas level asset that you'd expect TB to send back to Van in a deal with the Lightning?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Not saying Miller isn't a desirable asset, just explaining why Necas (or even worse Necas+) doesn't make sense from a Carolina POV. Unless Carolina has bad contracts issues/negotiations with Necas, they'll likely want to hold on to him.

I'm sure if Tampa is the highest bidder, that's what JR will do. One question though, who is the Necas level asset that you'd expect TB to send back to Van in a deal with the Lightning?

Oh I’m in agreement on Necas. I don’t see Carolina trading him.

If it’s Tampa, something likely has to be around Cernak for it to make sense from a Canucks POV.