Hull's 119.5mph Slapshot A Myth

[BobbyAwe]

The legendary velocity test on Bobby Hull's shot cannot be equated to the way shots are clocked in the All-Star game skills competition of recent years. Firstly, the equipment used to measure the impact/speed was doubtlessly not as accurate as what is used today and it is said that Hull was carrying the puck when he shot it, that is, that the puck was shot when already in motion, adding some mph. But the stat that really opened my eyes to the fact that Hull's test has to be readjusted in a big way is that his wrist shot, in the same test, was measured at 105mph and his backhand at 96mph. A 96mph backhand This clearly indicates that his slapper, if measured the way they are today, would be significantly less than 119 or 120mph. In fact, 96mph is not a bad number for a slapshot in today's NHL.

My own opinion is that Hull's slapper, as measured the way they do today, would probably be around 100mph even. That would qualify as a scary shot back in Hull's day, would still be a hard shot today, and would make sense in comparison with someone like Chara, whose shot is over 108mph but who is also twice Hull's size.

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[tombombadil]

this opinion is likely to get ripped apart here, due to the mythological status of yesteryear's greats - but i have always thought it was a dubious claim. You're right, the 96 mph backhand really clears up my doubt that there was something wrong with the testing.

 

[thom]

Hull was a mule like Lafleur he worked in a farm when they were youth.He would rule the league like all legends of the past.Most of today's superstars spend their time in their million dollar mansions partying like its no ones business.

 

[Andros777]

The legendary velocity test on Bobby Hull's shot cannot be equated to the way shots are clocked in the All-Star game skills competition of recent years. Firstly, the equipment used to measure the impact/speed was doubtlessly not as accurate as what is used today and it is said that Hull was carrying the puck when he shot it, that is, that the puck was shot when already in motion, adding some mph. But the stat that really opened my eyes to the fact that Hull's test has to be readjusted in a big way is that his wrist shot, in the same test, was measured at 105mph and his backhand at 96mph. A 96mph backhand This clearly indicates that his slapper, if measured the way they are today, would be significantly less than 119 or 120mph. In fact, 96mph is not a bad number for a slapshot in today's NHL.

My own opinion is that Hull's slapper, as measured the way they do today, would probably be around 100mph even. That would qualify as a scary shot back in Hull's day, would still be a hard shot today, and would make sense in comparison with someone like Chara, whose shot is over 108mph but who is also twice Hull's size.

I'm pretty sure that's not what happens. If the puck is in motion, it generates proportionally less resistance when the blade strikes it. The speed would be the same.

 

[tombombadil]

http://books.google.ca/books?id=jdQ...ult&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[tombombadil]

i nicked that from Zine. On page 114 there is a list of several tested players. Gordie Howe has a 114 mph wrist shot. Every single guy got over 100 mph on slap, and a few guys wristers are harder than their slappers (which i believe because slaps weren't developed well at this time)

If you still believe these numbers... you're faith is strong.

 

[VanIslander]

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't believe a 96 mph backhand for a second.

Wouldn't there be...any anecdotes about how strong it was?

 

[BobbyAwe]

Hull was a mule like Lafleur he worked in a farm when they were youth.He would rule the league like all legends of the past.Most of today's superstars spend their time in their million dollar mansions partying like its no ones business.

Lafleur was a "mule"? (6'0 - 175lbs)

Most players today (if not all) are on a weight lifting regimen. The players of Hull's era, as a general rule, were not. I guarantee you their million dollar mansions have weight rooms that get used a lot - even in the off seasons when players of the past were driving trucks or selling real estate instead.

 

[pappyline]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34744&d=1245025966

 

[BobbyAwe]

i nicked that from Zine. On page 114 there is a list of several tested players. Gordie Howe has a 114 mph wrist shot. Every single guy got over 100 mph on slap, and a few guys wristers are harder than their slappers (which i believe because slaps weren't developed well at this time)

If you still believe these numbers... you're faith is strong.

Wow, quite a find! Though we don't know how to accurately translate the numbers on those tests to the way it's done today, it is an interesting article in that it compares the players to each other. Tim Horton had the hardest shot next to Hull! I'm not really suprised at that though because i watched an old Leaf's video and saw him take a shot from outside the blue line and i remember thinking - "Damn! That was a blast!" compared to most of the shots the other players were taking.

 

[Killion]

My own opinion is that Hull's slapper, as measured the way they do today, would probably be around 100mph even. That would qualify as a scary shot back in Hull's day, would still be a hard shot today, and would make sense in comparison with someone like Chara, whose shot is over 108mph but who is also twice Hull's size.

...I agree. He & Makita were the progenitors of the slapshot (though Geoffrion & others had utilized it effectively previously), the first to employ it with the curve. Because of that, the flight dynamics altered like a curve ball, combined with inaccurate measurements, doesnt stand the test of time. A hideous development for goaltenders of the era to be sure, but ya, definitely in the realm of "urban myth". Doesnt take anything away from Hull, it just is what it is.... Orr had an interesting slapshot. Very short, sharp windup, economical. Short radius. Accurate & usually low. The "sweet spot" that single band of tape on his stick to the heel of the blade.

 

[tombombadil]

http://books.google.ca/books?id=jdQ...ult&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

quoting myself. page 114 of the link. These guys were all also skating over 28mph, which, i believe but don't have the numbers, is faster than the fastest now.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

The legendary velocity test on Bobby Hull's shot cannot be equated to the way shots are clocked in the All-Star game skills competition of recent years. Firstly, the equipment used to measure the impact/speed was doubtlessly not as accurate as what is used today and it is said that Hull was carrying the puck when he shot it, that is, that the puck was shot when already in motion, adding some mph. But the stat that really opened my eyes to the fact that Hull's test has to be readjusted in a big way is that his wrist shot, in the same test, was measured at 105mph and his backhand at 96mph. A 96mph backhand This clearly indicates that his slapper, if measured the way they are today, would be significantly less than 119 or 120mph. In fact, 96mph is not a bad number for a slapshot in today's NHL.

My own opinion is that Hull's slapper, as measured the way they do today, would probably be around 100mph even. That would qualify as a scary shot back in Hull's day, would still be a hard shot today, and would make sense in comparison with someone like Chara, whose shot is over 108mph but who is also twice Hull's size.

I agree his shot was not measured accurately, but clocked while already in motion does not seem odd. Doesn't the technology today measure pucks and pitches while in motion? Not right at the beginning nor at the end of the shot/pitch, but in mid flight.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Lafleur was a "mule"? (6'0 - 175lbs)

Most players today (if not all) are on a weight lifting regimen. The players of Hull's era, as a general rule, were not. I guarantee you their million dollar mansions have weight rooms that get used a lot - even in the off seasons when players of the past were driving trucks or selling real estate instead.

I'll take the farm boys who work over the city slickers who work out any day.

I've seen and heard of a few big work out nuts who were done by noon when putting in a days real work on the farm.

And I'm a slicker myself.

 

[tombombadil]

Wow, quite a find! Though we don't know how to accurately translate the numbers on those tests to the way it's done today, it is an interesting article in that it compares the players to each other. Tim Horton had the hardest shot next to Hull! I'm not really suprised at that though because i watched an old Leaf's video and saw him take a shot from outside the blue line and i remember thinking - "Damn! That was a blast!" compared to most of the shots the other players were taking.

thx. I find it fascinating, too. And, like you, simply in comparing them to each other. I don't find it all useful in comparing them to today, except that it confirms, for me, that Hull's numbers (and the rest of them) are not correct, at least to how it is measured now.

 

[Killion]

Wow, quite a find! Though we don't know how to accurately translate the numbers on those tests to the way it's done today, it is an interesting article in that it compares the players to each other. Tim Horton had the hardest shot next to Hull! I'm not really suprised at that though because i watched an old Leaf's video and saw him take a shot from outside the blue line and i remember thinking - "Damn! That was a blast!" compared to most of the shots the other players were taking.

Ya, Horton was built like a Brick ___House as we know. Nicknamed Clark Kent because he was practically legally blind without glasses & for his Superman like strength. He broke his leg early in his career, and was actually a rushing defenceman up until that point. Thereafter & throughout his career stay at home more often than not. Had he not broken his leg losing some mobility & had he had better eyesight, with a shot like that if he could actually see where he wanted to put it, needed to go, well, who knows?. Might be discussing him in the same breath as a sort of poor mans Bobby Orr huh?.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Ya, Horton was built like a Brick ___House as we know. Nicknamed Clark Kent because he was practically legally blind without glasses & for his Superman like strength. He broke his leg early in his career, and was actually a rushing defenceman up until that point. Thereafter & throughout his career stay at home more often than not. Had he not broken his leg losing some mobility & had he had better eyesight, with a shot like that if he could actually see where he wanted to put it, needed to go, well, who knows?. Might be discussing him in the same breath as a sort of poor mans Bobby Orr huh?.

I have seen him in several old full-game videos and was impressed with both his shot and his speed. I have also wondered why he didn't put up more points but the style of play was more conservative and I think the Leaf's were known to be more defensive minded than most teams even at that time?

Hard to believe that his eyesight was still hampered even with glasses, though? How can anyone be a great player (or even an average player) if he has trouble seeing the puck?

As for his leg I didn't know about the early injury but if you watch films of him he kind of lurched when he skated at speed which i thought was unusual. Maybe that was the effect of a somewhat bad leg?

 

[Epsilon]

I don't take seriously any measurables of this sort that were not measured using standardized, properly calibrated, electronic timing equipment. I've pretty much always regarded this claim as meritless.

For the same reason, I regard as laughable all of the 40 yard dash times that are out there for football players which were hand-clocked, some of which suggest a faster 40 yard start than what Usain Bolt has managed to do in the 100m sprint.

 

[Hasbro]

The thing with Hull's slapper that made it effective was he could get it off instride and with deadly accuracy.

 

[jax00]

 

[JaymzB]

I have no doubt Hull had the best slapshot of his time. But those #’s are not correct. Because if you believe Hull’s slapshot #, then both Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau would have won every single NHL Fastest shooting competition with their wrist shots. That is simply absurd.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I'm pretty sure that's not what happens. If the puck is in motion, it generates proportionally less resistance when the blade strikes it. The speed would be the same.

This is somewhat oversimplified (but unless someone wants to bust out some actual physics equations, it'll have to be), but imagine the puck like an RC car that can instantaneously accelerate to 50 km/h, with a 50 km/h top speed.

If driven off a stationary flatbed (player), it will travel forward at 50km/h relative to the ground.

If driven off a flatbed moving in the same direction at 20 km/h, the RC car will add the 50 km/h to the 20km/h of the flatbed and will initially travel forward at a speed of 70 km/h relative to the ground (ignoring things like wind resistance and other crap that will affect the numbers a little).

It won't be as direct an effect in a real world situation (if the puck is moving faster than the player as he winds up, then he won't transfer as much energy to it when he hits it, just as an example), but the overall effect of carrying the puck when it's shot is that the player/puck's on-ice velocity will at least partially translate into the puck's initial shooting velocity.

 

[pappyline]

Hard to judge the accuracy of the shot results but there is no question in my mind that those were the speeds recorded. Unfortunately, the article does not mention the equipment and methods used.

Keep in mind that this study was not done in the stone age. It was done in 1968 which was the year before they put a man on the moon. The technology was there to measure hockey shots with reasonable accuracy.

Also keep in mind that Lloyd Percival was a man away ahead of his time in studying hockey players and their conditioning. His 1951 book "The Hockey Handbook" was used by Tarosov in the development of Russian Hockey. Tarasov remarked "I read it like a school boy". There should not be any doubt that Percival recorded and reported on the results accurately.

Now maybe there is a a margin of error. The OP says Hull's slap shot was likely 100mph. But why 100mph? Why not 109mph which provides a margin of error of 10. The OP also mentions that Chara can only shot 108mph yet he is twice Hull's size. What has size got to do with it. Hull was only 5'10". Why couldn't all those 6' plus players shoot hard than him? I think people find it in difficult to accept that there is a possibility that 40 years ago there was a player that could shoot harder than anyone today.

Someone also mentioned that he didn't believe the skating speeds. Well they certainly did have stopwatches in 1968.

 

[Killion]

I have seen him in several old full-game videos and was impressed with both his shot and his speed. I have also wondered why he didn't put up more points but the style of play was more conservative and I think the Leaf's were known to be more defensive minded than most teams even at that time?

Hard to believe that his eyesight was still hampered even with glasses, though? How can anyone be a great player (or even an average player) if he has trouble seeing the puck?

As for his leg I didn't know about the early injury but if you watch films of him he kind of lurched when he skated at speed which i thought was unusual. Maybe that was the effect of a somewhat bad leg?

Ya, Leafs were cautious & 'D' first throughout the Smythe yrs & 60's, boringly so many would claim. Horton was a bit of an anomaly, a "rushing defenceman" as a Junior & with the Pittsburgh Hornets, early in his career with the Leafs until getting hit awkwardly (but cleanly) followed by a difficult rehab.

Didnt play that style again as he couldnt, physically, while his vision impairment is the stuff of legend, his defence partners "calling out instructions" in using the angles to play the man, disregarding the puck altogether, yelling directions as to where to headman the puck. Wore heavy horn rims with Coke bottle lenses, impracticable on the ice as theyd fog up, dangerous.

There are a lot of stories about the 06 era "hero's" that remain unknown or barely mentioned. Gordie Howe for example was Dyslexic, yet on the ice, a genuis, ambidextrous. Orr could "snap", full blown psycho capable of all kinds of mayhem had he not been held back on several occasions by his team mates. Brewer turtled when challenged early in his career, earning the enmity of team mates & opposition players alike as he played dirty and had quite the mouth on him....