How would've the Red Wings of 1999 fared against Dallas and then Buffalo if they got there?

[GarlicbreadTB]

1998–99 Detroit Red Wings season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Detroit's quest of a threepeat they acquired Chelios, Samuelsson, Clark and Ranford at the trade deadline with already a stacked roster containing Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Larionov, Draper, McCarty, Lidstrom and Murphy. In the first round of the playoffs they swept the Mighty Ducks in 4 games. In the following series they faced the mighty Colorado Avalanche team that they had some previous history with to say the least. The Red Wings won the first 2 games in Colorado and I think a lot of hockey experts thought that was gonna lead to an easy path to the Conference Finals for the Red Wings, but Colorado came back and won the next 4 leading ESPN analyst Bill Clement saying: "How could something that was so right go so wrong?" after Colorado knocked them out in 6.

Dallas obviously were a fantastic team this season and better than the previous year when Detroit knocked them out. Buffalo was relying a lot on Dominic Hasek around that time. So what do you guys think?

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[WarriorofTime]

They beat Dallas in six the year before, but then Dallas gained 5 points in the standings and Detroit lost 10 points, with Dallas most notably adding Brett Hull. Dallas beat the team that beat Detroit as well, so I reckon Dallas would win that particular year. They were the best team and a deserving champion (skate in crease discussion notwithstanding).

 

[Gorskyontario]

They would have beaten both. Dallas was a good matchup against the Avs, a bad match up against Detroit. Sabres were lucky to be there but realistically would have been swept if not for Hasek. With all due respect for Peca and a few other decent tweeners on that team.

 

[buffalowing88]

That Sabres squad looked weak on paper but they were designed to win low-scoring, close games and maximize the chances of Hasek stealing them a game. Big, physical defensemen who only clear about clearing the crease and responsible forwards who don't lose their defensive assignments aren't sexy, but I don't think they're getting swept by anyone in that era.

They certainly aren't beating Detroit, of course, but I think it's probably a tight 6 game series.

 

[LightningStorm]

I think Dallas beats Detroit in 1999, possibly 1998 too if not for Nieuwendyk missing the playoffs following his highest scoring regular season in Dallas. I've never put too much stock in their 1998 series when it comes to a 1999 matchup because you are adding Nieuwy and Hull to a team that was offensively starved when the teams met the previous season.

In fact, in the 2nd round against the Oilers, the Stars only scored 9 goals in their 5 game series win. While I do think the Avs were a better matchup for them than the Wings, I think the Stars still win the 1999 WCF (and cup) due to the offensive boost they got compared to the previous postseason. Plus Belfour gives them the edge in net.

With regards to Nieuwendyk missing the 1998 playoffs, I think this helped push him past Belfour for the 1999 CS, with the story of him coming back to lead the playoffs in goals being too good a story to pass up. This only intensified speculation of what could've been had he been healthy for 1998, though that was still before Hull was in Dallas.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Better question would be who would win between the 1997 Red Wings against the 1999 Stars.

 

[ShelbyZ]

but Colorado came back and won the next 4 leading ESPN analyst Bill Clement saying: "How could something that was so right go so wrong?" after Colorado knocked them out in 6.

I hope Gary Thorne tapped him on the shoulder and said "Um, Bill Ranford happened" after they went to commercial.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I think Dallas beats Detroit in 1999, possibly 1998 too if not for Nieuwendyk missing the playoffs following his highest scoring regular season in Dallas. I've never put too much stock in their 1998 series when it comes to a 1999 matchup because you are adding Nieuwy and Hull to a team that was offensively starved when the teams met the previous season.

In fact, in the 2nd round against the Oilers, the Stars only scored 9 goals in their 5 game series win. While I do think the Avs were a better matchup for them than the Wings, I think the Stars still win the 1999 WCF (and cup) due to the offensive boost they got compared to the previous postseason. Plus Belfour gives them the edge in net.

With regards to Nieuwendyk missing the 1998 playoffs, I think this helped push him past Belfour for the 1999 CS, with the story of him coming back to lead the playoffs in goals being too good a story to pass up. This only intensified speculation of what could've been had he been healthy for 1998, though that was still before Hull was in Dallas.

I'm not fully convinced DAL wins in 98 even with Nieuwendyk, but it's a great point. And it makes me reflect on the fact that, as much as DET, DAL, and COL all dominated from ~95 until ~2002, we never really got to see a "best vs. best" DET vs. DAL series. We saw plenty of DET vs. COL, and the 99 and 00 WCFs between DAL vs. COL were epics with both teams near/at the peak of their powers. But the only DET vs. DAL series we saw were in 95 (DAL far away from becaming the eventual powerhouse) and 98 (as you mentioned, no Nieuwendyk & pre-Hull).

 

[ForsbergForever]

This was also the year Colorado traded for Theo Fleury, who was added to the core of Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, Kamensky, Drury, C. Lemieux, Hejduk, Foote, Ozolinsh... no shame for Detroit in losing to a team of that caliber.

 

[MadLuke]

This was also the year Colorado traded for Theo Fleury, who was added to the core of Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, Kamensky, Drury, C. Lemieux, Hejduk, Foote, Ozolinsh... no shame for Detroit in losing to a team of that caliber.

With Roy giving 7 goals on 153 shots in those 4 wins in a row, Wings outshoot them 38.3 to 29.3 shots during their 4 lost

 

[ShelbyZ]

In Detroit's quest of a threepeat they acquired Chelios, Samuelsson, Clark and Ranford at the trade deadline with already a stacked roster containing Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Larionov, Draper, McCarty, Lidstrom and Murphy. In the first round of the playoffs they swept the Mighty Ducks in 4 games.

On paper it looks awesome, but that '99 team was starting to show some warts:

-Lots of guys banged up and dealing with injuries after 4 consecutive deep playoff runs, and they no longer had the depth they had the previous 2 seasons. And despite what Ken Holland thought, they really didn't have any young guys ready to make any sort of impact at the NHL level...

-Beyond Lidstrom and Murphy, their defense was a mess... Holland let Rouse, Fetisov and Mironov walk while making what he thought was a big splash in signing Uwe Krupp and promoting prospect Yan Golubovksy to the NHL roster. The Krupp signing was a disaster, Macoun played like he was 5 years older without Bob Rouse..., Aaron Ward, Anders Eriksson and Yan Golubovksy were pretty much stuck in Bowman's doghouse, with Ward requesting a trade out of town... To fill some of the gaps, Bowman moved winger Mathieu Dandenault to Defense, which cut into their forward depth, and they would eventually claim Todd Gill off of waivers, only to eventually be lost longterm to injury as well.

The trade deadline acquisitions were more about filling holes that going all in on a 3-peat.

For context, look at the Wings line-up in their last game before the deadline:

Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers Box Score: March 21, 1999 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers game played on March 21, 1999 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Kocur, Larionov and McCarty were injured, while Kirk Maltby was suspended for a slash that broke Valeri Kamensky's wrist (which would haunt the Wings later on). Gilchrist was playing in only his 2nd game of the season, but would re-aggravate his injury and miss the next game, which would've meant they would have to call up another forward to keep Klima and LaPlante company on the bench for 58 minutes had they not acquired Clark.

And this came after the Avs had added a couple of good rookies in Hejduk and Drury and then brought in Fleury and Dale Hunter. Dallas had added Hull and while they didn't get any big names, they had also added some depth to their roster before the deadline.

Then once all was said and done, none of those deadline acquisitions really moved the needle for the Red Wings... Samuelsson was hurt when they acquired him and never really seemed to get going before he got hurt again during the 2nd round... Clark moved like each of his skates weighed 150lbs... The hockey media's over rating of Ranford had finally ended in Tampa and he had that epic meltdown against the Avs in games 3 and 4, and even Chelios had the Detroit media wondering if he was the right move after he went -8 in 6 games against the Avalanche.

Based on all that, I don't see the '99 Wings getting past the Stars, but they likely would've beat the Sabres.

 

[Hasbro]

How many Red Wings does Matvichuk injure?

 

[blogofmike]

On paper it looks awesome, but that '99 team was starting to show some warts:

-Lots of guys banged up and dealing with injuries after 4 consecutive deep playoff runs, and they no longer had the depth they had the previous 2 seasons. And despite what Ken Holland thought, they really didn't have any young guys ready to make any sort of impact at the NHL level...

-Beyond Lidstrom and Murphy, their defense was a mess... Holland let Rouse, Fetisov and Mironov walk while making what he thought was a big splash in signing Uwe Krupp and promoting prospect Yan Golubovksy to the NHL roster. The Krupp signing was a disaster, Macoun played like he was 5 years older without Bob Rouse..., Aaron Ward, Anders Eriksson and Yan Golubovksy were pretty much stuck in Bowman's doghouse, with Ward requesting a trade out of town... To fill some of the gaps, Bowman moved winger Mathieu Dandenault to Defense, which cut into their forward depth, and they would eventually claim Todd Gill off of waivers, only to eventually be lost longterm to injury as well.

The trade deadline acquisitions were more about filling holes that going all in on a 3-peat.

For context, look at the Wings line-up in their last game before the deadline:

Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers Box Score: March 21, 1999 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers game played on March 21, 1999 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Kocur, Larionov and McCarty were injured, while Kirk Maltby was suspended for a slash that broke Valeri Kamensky's wrist (which would haunt the Wings later on). Gilchrist was playing in only his 2nd game of the season, but would re-aggravate his injury and miss the next game, which would've meant they would have to call up another forward to keep Klima and LaPlante company on the bench for 58 minutes had they not acquired Clark.

And this came after the Avs had added a couple of good rookies in Hejduk and Drury and then brought in Fleury and Dale Hunter. Dallas had added Hull and while they didn't get any big names, they had also added some depth to their roster before the deadline.

Then once all was said and done, none of those deadline acquisitions really moved the needle for the Red Wings... Samuelsson was hurt when they acquired him and never really seemed to get going before he got hurt again during the 2nd round... Clark moved like each of his skates weighed 150lbs... The hockey media's over rating of Ranford had finally ended in Tampa and he had that epic meltdown against the Avs in games 3 and 4, and even Chelios had the Detroit media wondering if he was the right move after he went -8 in 6 games against the Avalanche.

Based on all that, I don't see the '99 Wings getting past the Stars, but they likely would've beat the Sabres.

Also Osgood hurt his knee (I think) and probably wasn't 100% when he came back to relieve Ranford after two good games and two bad ones.

Meanwhile in the Dallas net is Ed Belfour who is successfully going toe-to-toe with Roy and Hasek.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Also Osgood hurt his knee (I think) and probably wasn't 100% when he came back to relieve Ranford after two good games and two bad ones.

Meanwhile in the Dallas net is Ed Belfour who is successfully going toe-to-toe with Roy and Hasek.

Yea, I remember it being clearly evident that Osgood wasn't anywhere close to 100%, but they had no choice but to roll with him hurt after Ranford and Maracle were so awful in games 3 and 4.

 

[FissionFire]

If you had a fully healthy Red Wings team in 1999 I think they would beat Dallas, but that team was worn down and had a ton of injuries and never really had a chance to show their full potential as a result.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I hope Gary Thorne tapped him on the shoulder and said "Um, Bill Ranford happened" after they went to commercial.

I was there, man...

Also Osgood hurt his knee (I think) and probably wasn't 100% when he came back to relieve Ranford after two good games and two bad ones.

Meanwhile in the Dallas net is Ed Belfour who is successfully going toe-to-toe with Roy and Hasek.

Broken hand, pulled groin. The dude had to play because Ranford put on probably the worst goaltending performance I've ever seen by a Wings goalie.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

I remember Yzerman being on fire that year. He finished with 9 goals in 10 games. Ranford's implosion doomed that team. They matched up really well with Dallas and Buffalo wasn't beating any of the west contenders.

 

[JackSlater]

On paper it looks awesome, but that '99 team was starting to show some warts:

-Lots of guys banged up and dealing with injuries after 4 consecutive deep playoff runs, and they no longer had the depth they had the previous 2 seasons. And despite what Ken Holland thought, they really didn't have any young guys ready to make any sort of impact at the NHL level...

-Beyond Lidstrom and Murphy, their defense was a mess... Holland let Rouse, Fetisov and Mironov walk while making what he thought was a big splash in signing Uwe Krupp and promoting prospect Yan Golubovksy to the NHL roster. The Krupp signing was a disaster, Macoun played like he was 5 years older without Bob Rouse..., Aaron Ward, Anders Eriksson and Yan Golubovksy were pretty much stuck in Bowman's doghouse, with Ward requesting a trade out of town... To fill some of the gaps, Bowman moved winger Mathieu Dandenault to Defense, which cut into their forward depth, and they would eventually claim Todd Gill off of waivers, only to eventually be lost longterm to injury as well.

The trade deadline acquisitions were more about filling holes that going all in on a 3-peat.

For context, look at the Wings line-up in their last game before the deadline:

Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers Box Score: March 21, 1999 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers game played on March 21, 1999 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Kocur, Larionov and McCarty were injured, while Kirk Maltby was suspended for a slash that broke Valeri Kamensky's wrist (which would haunt the Wings later on). Gilchrist was playing in only his 2nd game of the season, but would re-aggravate his injury and miss the next game, which would've meant they would have to call up another forward to keep Klima and LaPlante company on the bench for 58 minutes had they not acquired Clark.

And this came after the Avs had added a couple of good rookies in Hejduk and Drury and then brought in Fleury and Dale Hunter. Dallas had added Hull and while they didn't get any big names, they had also added some depth to their roster before the deadline.

Then once all was said and done, none of those deadline acquisitions really moved the needle for the Red Wings... Samuelsson was hurt when they acquired him and never really seemed to get going before he got hurt again during the 2nd round... Clark moved like each of his skates weighed 150lbs... The hockey media's over rating of Ranford had finally ended in Tampa and he had that epic meltdown against the Avs in games 3 and 4, and even Chelios had the Detroit media wondering if he was the right move after he went -8 in 6 games against the Avalanche.

Based on all that, I don't see the '99 Wings getting past the Stars, but they likely would've beat the Sabres.

This is all true, I do not see Detroit beating Dallas at that point. Dallas was better that year.

I do think that Detroit would have beaten Buffalo, but I'm far from completely certain. Detroit would have been fairly ragged by the time of the finals and couldn't have choked Buffalo out as Dallas eventually did in that serious. People pretend that Buffalo was carried by Hasek in the playoffs but it was actually a combination of very strong goaltending, defensive commitment, and what was, despite the names on the roster, quite a potent offence that spring. It would be far from a given for Detroit even though Cinderella teams almost always lose in the end.

 

[tabness]

Shanahan has said that the 1999 team was the strongest they had. Of all the (post cup) losses this one bothered me the most, the Wings were on fire and went up 2-0 on Colorado with a threepeat in sight, but the wheels fell off with the injuries especially to Osgood. With him healthy I obviously think they threepeat. They matched up well against Dallas, and I was never too impressed with Buffalo's run and I feel the Wings would smother the overachieving Sabres offense pretty well and they never struggled too much against Hasek.

It was sad to see Ranford, who was maybe the zenith of the standup style of goalie, play so poorly at the tail end of his career. Colorado just figured him out eventually, and really took advantage.