How would you grade John Tavares 7-year Contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[Tie Domi Esquire]

F. They wasted his prime adding him to a team that played opposite his style, among many other things. EA NHL style management. His overall rating is high so let's add him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

NYI Tavares was a great player

He was about as good as Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews his first 9 seasons as they were their first 9 seasons

Tavares was I think 9th in total pts and 10th in ppg from 2010 to 2018 (9 years on the isles) and was an elite top end 1C with 22 pts in 24 playoff games

I don't think that's even accurate. He had about a 3-year stretch (2012 to 2015) where you could make that argument, but for the bulk of his Islanders' career he was exactly what he ended up being in Toronto - a good, but not great, player. Outside of that 3-year stretch, he was never above a point per game and never was a threat to win an Art Ross, Richard, or Hart.

This is sort of what I mean about Tavares' career being seen as greater than it actually was. People often talk about him as though that 3-year stretch was what he was every year of his prime, when the fact is that was the only 3-year stretch of his career where he played like a top 10 player.

 

[hamzarocks]

I don't think that's even accurate. He had about a 3-year stretch (2012 to 2015) where you could make that argument, but for the bulk of his Islanders' career he was exactly what he ended up being in Toronto - a good, but not great, player. Outside of that 3-year stretch, he was never above a point per game and never was a threat to win an Art Ross, Richard, or Hart.

This is sort of what I mean about Tavares' career being seen as greater than it actually was. People often talk about him as though that 3-year stretch was what he was every year of his prime, when the fact is that was the only 3-year stretch of his career where he played like a top 10 player.

Those stats were from his first season to his 9th season. He was a upper tier star back then comparable with a lot of similar tier producers.

Him being 9th in pts and 9th in ppg during that period. The players ahead of him would be

The players ahead of him were.

1. Crosby (1st in pts and 1st ppg)

2. OV (5th in ppg)

3. Kane (4th in ppg)

4. Giroux (8th in ppg) - similar had really 3 or 4 elite years like Tavares (12, 14, 18)

5. Backstrom (6th in ppg) - very consistent but really one super high end year in 2010

6. Malkin (2nd in ppg)

7. Kopitar (10th in ppg) - 2-way play gives him the edge over Tavares

8. Stamkos (3rd in ppg)

Players behind him:

10. Kessel (never a better player than Tavares really)

11. H Sedin - only 2010 and 2011 hed be better than tavares

12. Getzlaf - 2011 and 2014 hes better than tavares, besides that pretty similar

13. Benn - 2014, 2015, 2016 are his 3 elite years similar to Tavares

14. Joe Thornton - most of his prime was done by this period but still elite seasons in 2010, 2013 and 2016

15. D Sedin - elite seasons in 2010, and 2011

He was an elite high end point producer who was at least a top 20 player in the NHL over that time. His 3 year peak he was likely closer to top 5 but overall he was pretty great at producing points and being a high end player.

Most guys in that era were not consistently top 5/10 players year in and year out with few exceptions (87, 71 when healthy, 8 besides 2012, Stamkos - 2010 to 2014).

For the leafs he has been a top 30 player only once in 2018-2019 and has many years he's in the 40-50 range which is a major decline.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Everyone said it would be an albatross at the end and he was full value the whole way through. Anyone trying to say it was bad is salty. One player does not bring any team a cup

 

[Midnight Judges]

In hindsight, his pay was higher than his value - the question is by how much. Maybe $2.5M per year or so?

The Leafs paid a UFA price though and I think you gotta factor that in.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Those stats were from his first season to his 9th season. He was a upper tier star back then comparable with a lot of similar tier producers.

Him being 9th in pts and 9th in ppg during that period. The players ahead of him would be

The players ahead of him were.

1. Crosby (1st in pts and 1st ppg)

2. OV (5th in ppg)

3. Kane (4th in ppg)

4. Giroux (8th in ppg) - similar had really 3 or 4 elite years like Tavares (12, 14, 18)

5. Backstrom (6th in ppg) - very consistent but really one super high end year in 2010

6. Malkin (2nd in ppg)

7. Kopitar (10th in ppg) - 2-way play gives him the edge over Tavares

8. Stamkos (3rd in ppg)

Players behind him:

10. Kessel (never a better player than Tavares really)

11. H Sedin - only 2010 and 2011 hed be better than tavares

12. Getzlaf - 2011 and 2014 hes better than tavares, besides that pretty similar

13. Benn - 2014, 2015, 2016 are his 3 elite years similar to Tavares

14. Joe Thornton - most of his prime was done by this period but still elite seasons in 2010, 2013 and 2016

15. D Sedin - elite seasons in 2010, and 2011

He was an elite high end point producer who was at least a top 20 player in the NHL over that time. His 3 year peak he was likely closer to top 5 but overall he was pretty great at producing points and being a high end player.

Most guys in that era were not consistently top 5/10 players year in and year out with few exceptions (87, 71 when healthy, 8 besides 2012, Stamkos - 2010 to 2014).

For the leafs he has been a top 30 player only once in 2018-2019 and has many years he's in the 40-50 range which is a major decline.

My point was he was never this top 5 type player for the bulk of even his Islanders' career. He had a 3-year stretch where he was, but the other years in New York he was pretty much outside of the top 10 pretty easily.

So that's why I disagree that if the Leafs got the Islanders version he would be worth the money because even then you're looking at a (in your own words) a top 20 player outside of a 3-year stretch making top 5 money.

And as much as I rag on Matthews (lesser so Marner), I don't think Tavares has consistently been near the top of the league like those two have. Matthews is the premiere goal scorer (at least in the regular season) and Marner's coming off of 3 straight years where he flirted (or scored) 100+ points. Tavares as an Islander is a tier below that unless you judge him entirely on a 3-year stretch.

 

[hamzarocks]

My point was he was never this top 5 type player for the bulk of even his Islanders' career. He had a 3-year stretch where he was, but the other years in New York he was pretty much outside of the top 10 pretty easily.

So that's why I disagree that if the Leafs got the Islanders version he would be worth the money because even then you're looking at a (in your own words) a top 20 player outside of a 3-year stretch making top 5 money.

And as much as I rag on Matthews (lesser so Marner), I don't think Tavares has consistently been near the top of the league like those two have. Matthews is the premiere goal scorer (at least in the regular season) and Marner's coming off of 3 straight years where he flirted (or scored) 100+ points. Tavares as an Islander is a tier below that unless you judge him entirely on a 3-year stretch.

The expectation would be for a top 20 player in JT to become a top 10ish player with more talent around him

He failed absolutely at delivering that. Got worse both reg season and playoffs. His production didnt hold up despite higher end talent around him which was extremely disappointing.

Matthews and Marner since 2016-2017 to 2024-2025 are 8th and 9th in pts and ppg in the league for players >500 games played.

They have been pretty much exactly as well as Tavares did over the course of their first 9 years.

Matthews had a better high end seasons and captured awards in 2022 but they produce similarly league wide during these 2 9-year periods on a league relative basis.

League scoring just exploded in 2020 onwards and 100 pts now isn't same as 90 pts was back in 2011-2017 period.

Matthews i'd still say was better than Tavares over the 9 years but marner hasn't in my opinion.

Marner has no seasons being a top 5 player in the league and few if any top 10 (2025 you can argue). He is a top 20ish player just like Tavares

He is better defensively than Tavares but softer and a worse player player during his 9-year comparison period vs NYI Tavares.

It is why if any team gives marner 13-15M x 7 expecting a top 5-10 player they will regret it big time right away

 

[Golden_Jet]

Similar production since 2018, as Zibanajed, Guentzel, Reinhardt,
None of them were at 11 million, his overpayment screwed up internal cap structure.

 

[shello]

In a vacuum, I don’t know how you can say this is a failure of a signing. Especially for a UFA signing.

 

[SavBigMoneyAtBedards]

It's not Tavares' fault but this was a terrible signing for Toronto and many people said it at the time.

They simply did not need to add Tavares at that cap hit and then make him captain.

 

[Turin]

The signing was good, but they got screwed when the cap didn't go up because of a once in a life time Happening.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The expectation would be for a top 20 player in JT to become a top 10ish player with more talent around him

He failed absolutely at delivering that. Got worse both reg season and playoffs. His production didnt hold up despite higher end talent around him which was extremely disappointing.

Matthews and Marner since 2016-2017 to 2024-2025 are 8th and 9th in pts and ppg in the league for players >500 games played.

They have been pretty much exactly as well as Tavares did over the course of their first 9 years.

Matthews had a better high end seasons and captured awards in 2022 but they produce similarly league wide during these 2 9-year periods on a league relative basis.

League scoring just exploded in 2020 onwards and 100 pts now isn't same as 90 pts was back in 2011-2017 period.

Matthews i'd still say was better than Tavares over the 9 years but marner hasn't in my opinion.

Marner has no seasons being a top 5 player in the league and few if any top 10 (2025 you can argue). He is a top 20ish player just like Tavares

He is better defensively than Tavares but softer and a worse player player during his 9-year comparison period vs NYI Tavares.

It is why if any team gives marner 13-15M x 7 expecting a top 5-10 player they will regret it big time right away

I don't think you can judge players directly based on where they ranked league wide because I think there's more high end talent right now than there was during that 2010-2015 year stretch. From 2005 (post lockout) to 2010, you had a mix of new players like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane competing with the likes of Thornton, Jagr, St. Louis, Sedin, etc. But by 2010, the old guard pretty much faded (minus St. Louis) and only the new guys were elite. But since the 2015 draft, there's an influx of high end talent who all happened to be roughly the same age.

So Tavares producing 9th best during a lull period can't be looked at the same as Matthews or Marner producing 9th best during an influx of young offensive talent all in their primes.

In any case, it's more semantics at this point because ultimately Tavares wasn't this elite franchise altering player Toronto seemed to think they were signing. He was simply a "good" scorer who they paid "elite" scorer money to.

 

[LightningStorm]

D. He performed his role with the contract, so this prevents it from being an F. The issue though was another high end forward was superfluous for the Leafs because of their 3 young forwards, and Kadri was a viable 2C at the time (as he'd also be on the 2022 Avs). The Leafs forwards needed depth, and if going after high end talent, the blue line was the place to do that. Tavares was an unneeded luxury that hampered them from upgrading major holes in their roster, and in that context I give this signing a D.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

B- in the sense that he has been consistently one of their best player for the entirety of the contract, but there also has never been a moment where he wasn't severely overpaid for what he brought.