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How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy?

Greatzsky 99 said:
Orr had to short career for me, was he better?
He is in Bjorn Borg territory for me, maybe higher then Nadal Federer
some stats support it, but the lenght of his career makes him under them.
same with Lemiuex, Gretzky is greater cause of the lenght of his career,
This is how I see it, my opinion.
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But in that short span he scored at an unprecedented rate for a Dman and put 98% of forwards to shame

And I think 9 seasons is more than enough
 
daver said:
Wayne and Mario were better in the regular season and in the playoffs than McDavid.
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Mario(1.607) has a 0.02 ppg lead over McDavid(1.589) in the playoffs, in a higher-scoring era. Let's say Mario is a better performer due to sample size, but it's still easy to see that they are peers and are very comparable. It's easier to group McDavid with Mario than with Crobsy's 1.117 ppg.
 
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CashMash said:
I think even with 1 cup, he'd be ahead. They're still in the same tier to me. McDavid is a better scorer even when adjusting for scoring environments. Even so, he--like Crosby--has years where others surpass him in terms of scoring. Art Rosses have gone to Drai, Kucherov, and Mack has kept pace too... It's not like Wayne and Mario from the 80s to the early 90s where they only lost to each other.

He's better than the aforementioned guys--being a tier above them due to consistency--much like Crosby who was better than Malkin and Ovechkin over the years. I feel McDavid has separated himself more from the his versions than Crosby did, but not by enough that he'd be in the Lemieux and Gretzky tier. He and Crosby are in the Jagr tier in terms of separation.

We *are* in a higher scoring era, given that we only had a couple 100-point scorers at most a season for most of the 2010s. Suddenly, we have a handful again. That can't all be a coincidence, especially since Kuch, Mack, and McDavid played at the tail end of the lower scoring era too.
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I understand where you're going, but you're assuming longevity and more points/trophies. I think were talking about today or next week even (1 Cup or still 0 Cups) and if his career ended, where would he stand? Majority here are caught up in the flash of his skill that we are seeing live and forgetting about Gretzkys in the 80s, Lemieux in the 90s, Jagr in the 90s, Crosby in the teens. We had the same conversations then about them.

As of TODAY and obvious who is who, but removing the names to look at it more objectively. One is clearly not close to the others and simply needs more time and we all agree, he will get there. Threw in a curve ball also to show McDavid isnt even there yet longevity wise and obviously Cups, but can argue is there because of the individual accolades and IMO its sad how we disrespect guys in that tier.

1352GP 652G 1062A 1687P
180GP 71G 130A 201P
3 Cups
2 Art Ross
2 Conn Smythe (wins)
2 Hart
2 Rocket
3 Lindsay

712GP 361G 721A 1082P
90GP 43A 100A 143P
0 Cups
5 Art Ross
1 Conn Smythe (loss)
3 Hart
1 Rocket
4 Lindsay

1733GP 766G 1155A 1921P
208GP 78G 123A 201P
2 Cups
5 Art Ross
1 Hart
3 Lindsay

1514GP 692G 1063A 1755P
196GP 70G 115A 185P
3 Cups
1 Conn Smythe (win)
1 Selke
1 Lindsay
 
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Gretzky losing in 93 doesn't affect his legacy because he won four before that point.

If McDavid wins this year and loses three more times after that, his legacy is still cemented because he actually won one imo. But he needs to win at least one.
 
RevengeOfTheDrai said:
Mario(1.607) has a 0.02 ppg lead over McDavid(1.589) in the playoffs, in a higher-scoring era. Let's say Mario is a better performer due to sample size, but it's still easy to see that they are peers and are very comparable. It's easier to group McDavid with Mario than with Crobsy's 1.117 ppg.
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I'd pick Lemieux myself.

Maybe it's generational bias but I just don't see McDavid at that level.

But I admit, I am getting a bit more convinced about McDavud's status being close to Lemieux and maybe even at the same level...
 
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RevengeOfTheDrai said:
Mario(1.607) has a 0.02 ppg lead over McDavid(1.589) in the playoffs, in a higher-scoring era. Let's say Mario is a better performer due to sample size, but it's still easy to see that they are peers and are very comparable. It's easier to group McDavid with Mario than with Crobsy's 1.117 ppg.
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So was McDavid better in 2022 than he was last year or this year? His PPG was much higher.

In terms of groupings, it's easier to group Crosby with other mutliple Cup winners/Conn Smythe winners than it is with McDavid.
 
Even McDavid never wins a cup, he's still the best of his generation and is going to be considered top 4 when all is said and done with Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby.

His 13 individual trophies (art rosses, harts, and lindsey) already put him ahead of Crosby. He's top 7 in terms of individual awards and is only halfway into his career, and he'll probably end up top 5 all time in scoring.

The cup is harder to win today than it was back then, so it'll be hard to take away from his legacy, even if he doesn't win a cup.
 
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daver said:
So was McDavid better in 2022 than he was last year or this year? His PPG was much higher.
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Yes he was and Oiler fans would tell you so. It’s not his best run due not reaching the finals, it’s his highest level of play.


daver said:
In terms of groupings, it's easier to group Crosby with other mutliple Cup winners/Conn Smythe winners than it is with McDavid.
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Without context, yes. We can use that logic to say it’s easier to group Ryan O’Reilly and Justin Williams with Conn Smythe/Cup winners than it is McDavid. Doesn’t really say much.
 
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Hockey2Hockey said:
This is totally off topic. But he has no business being compared with those all time NBA greats. He's a few tiers below. But I get the main point.

I will say this. I always felt Marino never upped his game enough in the postseason to give his team great chances to win. McDavid has. Marino always left you wanting more.

But it would still be the same conversation. "Yeah that McDavid guy was great. But he never won a cup."

And another question is if he can't get it done this year, when will he? How much better is the team going to get when three guys will be taking up half the cap? One of them being Bouchard.
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That surprises me a bit I think because I thought mentioning McDavid with Cobb, Bonds and Williams might be a tad premature when comparing him to MLB greats. I never thought the NBA names I mentioned would be considered by anyone to be a tier above McDavid.

Anyway, I do agree that he has done his part and Marino did have some games where you were thirsting for a bit more. I am thinking that if someone like Forsberg never won it might be something like that. Forsberg obviously is below McDavid on the all-time list, but in terms of a player who went the distance and did everything he could to win, had he not won I would think it would be something like that. And we all know the great playoff warrior Forsberg was.
 
winnipegger said:
His 30s are going to be great in Toronto. Him and Matthews will win like 3 cups or whatever.
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Not even Gretzky and Lemieux on the same line could save Matthews.

His heart isn't in jt; he's as good as he is on skill alone. Going gets tough, he doesn't have the competitive fire to step it up like the true greats do.

He's too busy thinking about his next shopping spree.
 
crowfish said:


I genuinely don't think there will ever be another player this good in my lifetime. A highlight reel package like this from 5 games is absurd. If his team loses in the next round, it will not change the reality of what my eyes tell me when I watch him play hockey.
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There will be a better player one day. People said the same thing about Gretzky and Lemieux came , then Mcdavid came and pushed the sports science to another level.

There will be another one , in how long? God knows but we should enjoy this one because you never know if the next one is gonna come in 10-20-30-40 years lol
 
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The Gr8 Dane said:
Their will be a better player one day. People said the same thing about Gretzky and Lemieux came , then Mcdavid came and pushed the sports science to another level.

There will be another one , in how long? God knows but we should enjoy this one because you never know if the next one is gonna come in 10-20-30-40 years lol
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The talk of the greats made me suddenly wonder,
What would McDavid look lime on defence? Who's game would he resemble and likely take up several levels?

Jake Sanderson? Speed and more speed.

From the past? Paul Coffey? A step down version of Bobby Orr? A better version of Bobby Orr?
 
landy said:
Cups matter. To put McDavid, today, ahead of Sid is pure insanity. I believe he will get there. 1 Cup and he is in that tier. Multiple Cups and and he is ahead. No Cups and it will forever be arguable that he is a tier below.
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Im putting him up there on individual stats so far compared yo Jags and Crosby
 
Crosby2010 said:
That surprises me a bit I think because I thought mentioning McDavid with Cobb, Bonds and Williams might be a tad premature when comparing him to MLB greats. I never thought the NBA names I mentioned would be considered by anyone to be a tier above McDavid.

Anyway, I do agree that he has done his part and Marino did have some games where you were thirsting for a bit more. I am thinking that if someone like Forsberg never won it might be something like that. Forsberg obviously is below McDavid on the all-time list, but in terms of a player who went the distance and did everything he could to win, had he not won I would think it would be something like that. And we all know the great playoff warrior Forsberg was.
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There is not a single name on that list from the NBA that should be reasonably considered ahead of McDavid relative to their sport. Malone and Stockton might be the closest. But neither are locks for the top 20 all time.
 
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