How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy?

[dr robbie]

I'd say that a final loss would affect his legacy negatively, and a final win would affect his legacy positively.

This is kind of where I'm at. He's the best player to never win a Cup at this point. Failing again in the Finals is just going to drive the knife in further. They are a much better team this season and this is easily his best shot so far to change the narrative.

 

[PistolPete]

LOL wtaf is this? sees poster. Oh right.

He really does have character issues.

Could a do be any more boring and lack personality???

 

[dr robbie]

I find this obsession with winning the stanley cup strange
as if it the ONLY thing that matters for a hockeyplayer and the rest
doesnt mean anything, well then Henri Richard is the best Hockey player
of all time, Kane is better then Lemiuex, Messier is better then Gretzky
and Tretiak was as good as me.
i havent been around here for that long, but has this always been the
debate? or is it just a fixation with McDavid? same with Ovi? same with barkov?/cause this season is the same season as it is for Mcdavid now, when barkov made his first final

Hockey is a team sport and the whole goal is to win the Cup. Players do their parts to give their team the best chance at doing so, whether it is good forechecking, penalty killing, bottom pairing defending, or doing highlight reel plays on the center stage. Everything else is secondary - has nothing to do with McDavid other than he hasn't gotten a Cup yet.

Players decades after retirement are still proud of their accomplishments and will sign autographs with "1988 SC Winner!" attached to it. I wonder if McDavid is content adding to his phrases like "2024 Runner's Up!" or "2024 Smythe Winner!"

 

[Booker T]

How many players ranked all-time in the top 10, top 25, hell even top 50, have never won a cup? Genuinely curious.

 

[TooManyHumans]

This isn't confined to hockey. Marino is the best QB to never win the Super Bowl, Ewing is the best center to never with the NBA Championship, and so on. It gets dumb when people blame the best player on a team for the team failing to win it all though. Maybe, just maybe, it is not the best player's fault and instead some of the not the best players should get the blame.

 

[PistolPete]

I find this obsession with winning the stanley cup strange
as if it the ONLY thing that matters for a hockeyplayer and the rest
doesnt mean anything, well then Henri Richard is the best Hockey player
of all time, Kane is better then Lemiuex, Messier is better then Gretzky
and Tretiak was as good as me.
i havent been around here for that long, but has this always been the
debate? or is it just a fixation with McDavid? same with Ovi? same with barkov?/cause this season is the same season as it is for Mcdavid now, when barkov made his first final

Doug Jarvis was greater than them all except Messier and Richard.

It's a cognitive flaw. Like you, it baffles me when team accomplishments are brought up as an individual metric.

I think most who are prone to doing this know it at heart but then that feeling kicks in and supercedes any logic.

There is actually a tern for this kind of bias but it eludes me memory atm

 

[JianYang]

I've never blamed him for the fact that he doesn't have a Cup, but in my honest opinion, losing in the Cup final this year may give some support to the notion that you can't win with him as your main guy (I am not saying that I would believe that personally).

In the past, he played on teams that just weren't good enough to win it all. Last year, he, Bouchard, Draisaitl and a great PK basically dragged EDM to within one game of a Cup win (and Draisaitl wasn't that good after round two). This year, EDM has looked great in the playoffs and has home ice advantage in the SCF. Obviously, FLA is a strong team and beating the Panthers wouldn't be easy for any team, but you really can't say the Oilers have no business being in the Cup Final or have no chance against FLA.

I'm picking EDM to win. If FLA wins and McDavid has a poor or mediocre series, it'll definitely be a blown opportunity for him and may be something people look back on and point to as a reason to keep him out of the Big Five or Four. If he has a great series and FLA wins because EDM's PK is trash and/or Skinner turns into a pumpkin, then the loss shouldn't be held against McDavid... but it definitely will be by some.

I dont buy that for a second. The fact he doesn't have any cups right now speaks to the ineptness of oiler management.

Last year for example, his production in the playoffs has not been seen since prime Mario or prime Wayne. There is nothing more he could do.

 

[PistolPete]

I dont buy that for a second. The fact he doesn't have any cups right now speaks to the ineptness of oiler management.

Last year for example, his production in the playoffs has not been seen since prime Mario or prime Wayne. There is nothing more he could do.

B.i.N.G.O

A Stanley Cup is a team achievement that thus requires a team to have several prerequisite pieces and intangibles in place to accomplish it.

Could Wayne Gretzky have led the '85 Jets to a Cup? The '84 Capitals? The '86 Red Wings?

The '89 Kings?

If a player is believer to be able to lead a team to a Cup by his own will, does it mean he should be able to lead them to first overall as well? Does this mean we can argue any player whose team hasn't finished first overall every season of his prime years wasn't that great?

 

[daver]

I dont buy that for a second. The fact he doesn't have any cups right now speaks to the ineptness of oiler management.

Last year for example, his production in the playoffs has not been seen since prime Mario or prime Wayne. There is nothing more he could do.

Get off to a better start in the SCF?

Score in Game 7?

If you are going to throw out his name with Wayne and Mario, he is going to be held to the highest standard possible.

 

[PistolPete]

Get off to a better start in the SCF?

Score in Game 7?

If you are going to throw out his name with Wayne and Mario, he is going to be held to the highest standard possible.

This is absurd.

Going by that logic a player has to perform every single game of his PO career to be considered elite.

Gretzky isn't elite because he failed to perform well enough to move the Oilers past the Flames in '86? And past the Islanders in '83?

 

[Fatass]

Best Player to Have Never Won a Cup is not the legacy McDavid wants.

 

[daver]

This is absurd.

Going by that logic a player has to perform every single game of his PO career to be considered elite.

Gretzky isn't elite because he failed to perform well enough to move the Oilers past the Flames in '86? And past the Islanders in '83?

Are you trying to argue that McDavid is on Wayne's level?

McDavid was very good in the SCF last year but not good enough.

 

[TheBeard]

Are you trying to argue that McDavid is on Wayne's level?

McDavid was very good in the SCF last year but not good enough.

He was good enough. The rest of the team wasn't.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Top 5 player of all time regardless of any outcome

Consider that even if the Oilers lose he’ll possibly be winning another Smythe too

 

[jigglysquishy]

How many players ranked all-time in the top 10, top 25, hell even top 50, have never won a cup? Genuinely curious.

Thread 'Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time'

Nov 11, 2018

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time

The following is the final list of the top hockey players of all-time as determined by 32 voting members of the History of Hockey community.

Report any errors to @quoipourquoi

Rank	Player	Position	Born	Nation	Birth City
1	Wayne Gretzky	C	1961	Canada	Brantford, Ontario
2	Gordie Howe	RW	1928	Canada	Floral...

[TBODY]

• quoipourquoi
• Replies: 999
• Forum: The History of Hockey

• 

Excluding the Soviets,

Park at 47
Dionne at 64
Salming at 84
Thornton at 91
Howe at 95
Lindros at 96

Plus McDavid and Draisaitl, who would make the list now.

 

[Crunchrulz]

To be honest, there are plenty of athletes throughout the Big Four who never earned a Championship ring that are still spoken of as all-time greats and are in their respective sport's Hall of Fame.
He will be fine, getting a ring (or more) would be just further icing on the cake of his outstanding career.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd say that a final loss would affect his legacy negatively, and a final win would affect his legacy positively.

Darren Dregger, is that you?

 

[avocadosmoothie]

Get off to a better start in the SCF?

Score in Game 7?

If you are going to throw out his name with Wayne and Mario, he is going to be held to the highest standard possible.

McDavid is better than them

 

[JianYang]

Get off to a better start in the SCF?

Score in Game 7?

If you are going to throw out his name with Wayne and Mario, he is going to be held to the highest standard possible.

Believe it or not, wayne and Mario didn't capitalize on all their chances either. They also had bad games too.

There's also a reason gretzky never won after leaving Edmonton, and the same reason why Mario didn't win until the early 90s.

 

[Fatass]

To be honest, there are plenty of athletes throughout the Big Four who never earned a Championship ring that are still spoken of as all-time greats and are in their respective sport's Hall of Fame.
He will be fine, getting a ring (or more) would be just further icing on the cake of his outstanding career.

For his fans yes. But for McDavid definitely not. These greatest of the greats are wired so they define their legacy with Championships. None of them wants to be known as the best to never win. Imo McDavid would be embarrassed by that title.

 

[Menzinger]

It would say a LOT more about the state of the league than the player.

If the best hockey player on earth can't drag his team to a championship. then the league rules/cba is in dire need of changing. No other pro sport in the world has this issue.

 

[JianYang]

It would say a LOT more about the state of the league than the player.

If the best hockey player on earth can't drag his team to a championship. then the league rules/cba is in dire need of changing. No other pro sport in the world has this issue.

Its the way its always been. Hockey superstars are not on the ice for most of the game. You need a stacked team to win, but the odds are also getting harder. There's 32 teams now as opposed to 20 or so.

I also think mcdavid's team is not as good as Mario's penguins and definitely not as good as gretzky's oilers.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Its the way its always been. Hockey superstars are not on the ice for most of the game.

There's nothing inherent to hockey about this.

Smaller rosters would result in a slower game, but would also mean stars play more.

 

[JianYang]

There's nothing inherent to hockey about this.

Smaller rosters would result in a slower game, but would also mean stars play more.

I'm not saying anything needs to be done to roster sizes. I'm just pointing out that the supetstars in hockey have less influence over the team result than other sports,

 

[Fatass]

Its the way its always been. Hockey superstars are not on the ice for most of the game. You need a stacked team to win, but the odds are also getting harder. There's 32 teams now as opposed to 20 or so.

I also think mcdavid's team is not as good as Mario's penguins and definitely not as good as gretzky's oilers.

Which really to McDavid (imo) means nothing. I think McDavid believes he belongs with the greatest. I also think he would be embarrassed to talk hockey with those greatest players without leading a team to the Cup. For me, no Cup still has McDavid top ten.