How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy? | Page 2 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy?

Nah he uses a lot of deception at all times even when he's stationary on the powerplay. You can't break a Wayne Gretzky assist record (most assists in a playoff run ever) by just being fast.
He's the fastest guy in the NHL. What?
 
It's a real good question, if he made several cups and lost, you could look at it mulriple waya. I can't remember how people thought about Bourque in the early 90's, he had made 2 cup finals and lost to the power house Oilers. Yzerman was getting torn apart for 95 failure.

The fact that he made it to the dance means something, eventually. Lets just hope he wins this year and be done with this.

Where ever you stand onthe Jordan vs Lebron debetate, Jordan winning 1 more title and never losing in the finals usually is brought up in the debate. So who knows.

Just win Connor.
 
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The Oilers won without Gretzky.
The Kings lost with Gretzky because Guy Carbonneau was able to mostly neutralize him.

None of that appears to have tarnished Gretzky's legacy. Even if Florida wins it's not going to take away McDavid's reputation as the best player currently in the NHL.
 
Here's an unlikely hypothetical:

McDavid loses the SCF. Joins Florida. They threepeat next season. McDavid has 18 points in 21 games.

Does that impact his legacy at all. Or will people just look at the fact he won a cup?
Probably minimal impact. Basically like when Kevin Durant went and joined Golden State after losing to them. Didn’t give his legacy the boost it would have otherwise. In fact, it probably hurt it depending on who you ask since it was viewed as extremely anticompetitive. I don’t think it would hurt McD’s legacy, but joining the two time defending champion who beat you twice to get your cup isn’t exactly the stuff of legend.
 
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Here's an unlikely hypothetical:

McDavid loses the SCF. Joins Florida. They threepeat next season. McDavid has 18 points in 21 games.

Does that impact his legacy at all. Or will people just look at the fact he won a cup?

depends how long it takes to retire from his equipment making him itchy
 
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With the Panthers and Oilers facing off again in the Stanley Cup Final, and if Florida wins.. how do you think that impacts Connor McDavid's ultimate hockey legacy? Will he still be seen as an all-time legend if he can't win the biggest prize, even if it's not entirely his fault?
I think if he repeats winning the Conn Smythe if Florida repeats as Cup champs, it would actually enhance his legacy. Only 5 players besides him have ever accomplished it once. Being the only player to do so twice would be historic. Him doing so twice in a row would be legendary.

There's a very real chance of this happening.
 
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This may strike people as a gross oversimplication but it really does get to the heart of the matter:

If you could go back in time and you're a GM in the 70s, are you going to take Marcel Dionne or Gilbert Perreault or do you take Doug Risebrough or Doug Jarvis?

Using this logic that winning a Cup (or making it past a certain round or winning first overall in the standings), the argument would lead to taking a Risebrougy or Jarvis.

To use any team achievement for an assessment of a player is utterly ridiculous. Is MacDavid supposed to step into Skinner's pads and make all thr necessary saves and them promptly go back up the ice and score?
I understand the main concept that you are presenting here.

But you are comparing Dionne/Perreault with Risebrough/Jarvis. Hall-of-Famers with 3rd-liners. Apples-to-oranges.

This thread is about McDavid's legacy. The thread title states "legacy".

This normally translates to "All time standing".

So, instead of comparing apples-to-oranges, compare apples-to-apples.

Compare McDavid to Crosby, for example.

Similar to how Marcel Dionne and Gilbert Perreault will never be held in as high regard as Guy Lafleur, I don't think McDavid will ever be held in as high regard as Crosby if McDavid can't ever win the Stanley Cup.

He doesn't have to win it this year. If he loses it this year again, people won't necessarily hold it against him as long as he can win it some year.

But if he finishes with 0 Stanley Cups? Then yes, his legacy suffers when comparing him against other all-time greats.

And I think that is fair, since all the legends and all-time greats before him were also judged by whether they won the Stanley Cup or not.

Crosby, Ovechkin, Lemieux, Gretzky, etc. They were all judged differently before they won the Stanley Cup. They all needed that Stanley Cup win to cement their legacy. Why make different rules for McDavid?
 
Here's an unlikely hypothetical:

McDavid loses the SCF. Joins Florida. They threepeat next season. McDavid has 18 points in 21 games.

Does that impact his legacy at all. Or will people just look at the fact he won a cup?
If he did that, he would earn Kevin Durant level of criticism.

"I can't beat this team so I will join them and ride their dominance to a championship".

Durant has earned this criticism from many people, even though he was the best player on Golden State Warriors championship runs with him on the roster.

So it would be even worse for McDavid if he wasn't even Florida's best player during his run (18 points in 21 games is unlikely to be the best player).

To compare Durant to your McDavid hypothetical as it relates to the hockey universe:

Nobody, and I mean nobody, was prepared to give Marian Hossa any respect or admiration in 2009 if his Detroit Red Wings had defeated the Pittsburgh Penguins in the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals. Hossa as a member of the Penguins in 2008 had lost in the Finals to the Red Wings. Then he went and joined the Red Wings for 2009. Nobody was going to give him any respect or admiration had he beaten the Penguins in the 2009 Finals. As a matter of fact, it would have caused damage to his legacy and reputation had he won the 2009 Finals. For Hossa, it was much better when he won with Chicago against teams that had never played for before.
 
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I find this obsession with winning the stanley cup strange
as if it the ONLY thing that matters for a hockeyplayer and the rest
doesnt mean anything, well then Henri Richard is the best Hockey player
of all time, Kane is better then Lemiuex, Messier is better then Gretzky
and Tretiak was as good as me.
i havent been around here for that long, but has this always been the
debate? or is it just a fixation with McDavid? same with Ovi? same with barkov?/cause this season is the same season as it is for Mcdavid now, when barkov made his first final
of course winning is everything, have you ever met a pro player?
 
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The Oilers won without Gretzky.
The Kings lost with Gretzky because Guy Carbonneau was able to mostly neutralize him.

None of that appears to have tarnished Gretzky's legacy. Even if Florida wins it's not going to take away McDavid's reputation as the best player currently in the NHL.
None of that tarnished Gretzky because Gretzky won 4 Stanley Cups prior to any of that, putting up all-time great statistics in the process.

McDavid losing this year? Not a huge deal for his legacy. But only if he wins some time else in the future.

Finishing with 0 Stanley Cups would definitely hurt his legacy.

Just like Crosby's legacy and Ovechkin's legacy (if we want to talk about recent players) would have suffered with 0 Stanley Cups.

Crosby and Ovechkin both played under the same conditions (salary cap league and 30+ teams).

Crosby won the Stanley Cup early in his career, so he was able to check-off that legacy box early.

But I am sure everyone remembers all of the criticism about Ovechkin's legacy before 2018, when he won the Stanley Cup as a 32 year old.

Ovechkin was facing a lot of criticism about his legacy prior to finally winning the Stanley Cup in 2018. This criticism was happening even though Ovechkin had very good playoff statistics prior to 2018. People were holding his lack of Stanley Cup against him, against his legacy, and against his all-time standing. He made all of the critics disappear after winning the Stanley Cup in 2018.

If Crosby and Ovechkin are held to a "Stanley Cup or lesser legacy" standard, then it is fair to hold McDavid to the same standard.
 
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depends how long it takes to retire from his equipment making him itchy
I know exactly who you are referring to here.

I posted about that player too, after your post, as it relates to the idea of Connor joining the Panthers and winning with them after losing to them.
 
None of that tarnished Gretzky because Gretzky won 4 Stanley Cups prior to any of that, putting up all-time great statistics in the process.

McDavid losing this year? Not a huge deal for his legacy. But only if he wins some time else in the future.

Finishing with 0 Stanley Cups would definitely hurt his legacy.

Just like Crosby's legacy and Ovechkin's legacy (if we want to talk about recent players) would have suffered with 0 Stanley Cups.

If Crosby and Ovechkin are held to a "Stanley Cup or lesser legacy" standard, then it is fair to hold McDavid to the same standard.
it would haunt him like a hell rest of his life
 
Shouldn't impact his legacy at all, but unfortunetly will, as many people always will blame loses on one the best player (instead of about 20 significantly worse on the roster)...
 
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It won't matter.

The only thing that will affect his legacy, right or wrong, is if he never wins one. Even with his Conn Smythe. Once he gets one, it doesn't matter how many... Kind of like Ovechkin.
 
It would be a unique historical scenario.

No GOAT talent has lost two SCFs during peak/prime. They always won either on the first crack:

Richard
Howe (lost in two SCFs before his hit his prime)
Hull
Orr
Lafleur (lost in '73 before his prime)
Mario
Ovechkin

Or after losing one the year before:

Beliveau
Wayne
Crosby
 
Cups alone aren't the only thing that matters. Or how high do people rank Jean-Guy Talbot?
For a player?

You can ask any player from any era, any league, and only thing that matters is winning the cup. Individual trophies and achievements are very secondary.

How random fan ranks them, no one cares.
 
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It won't matter.

The only thing that will affect his legacy, right or wrong, is if he never wins one. Even with his Conn Smythe. Once he gets one, it doesn't matter how many... Kind of like Ovechkin.

Good post.

These guys are being paid millions to play a kid's game; winning a Cup should be held very high. Whether that's fair or not is pretty close to being a meaningless concern in the grander scheme of things. If that's waht the fans think is important then it's important because they are the ones paying the player's paycheques.
 

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