How was Torts Analytically in Philly?

[Bjornar Moxnes]

You're not wrong!

The worst of Girardi, by far, came during the late AV era when he really started leaving his fingerprints on the team.

Although tbf Strålman leaving made a big impact. He, Vlasic, and Hjalmarsson made up the top 3 best defensive players in the league.

 

[Machinehead]

Although tbf Strålman leaving made a big impact. He, Vlasic, and Hjalmarsson made up the top 3 best defensive players in the league.

Yeah, I think the team was cooked anyway with the way that roster was aging, but AV's lousy habits are still prevalent. He was the first coach who had the vets on the team. On top of that, the Rangers keep hiring player-friendly caretakers who have no standards beyond maybe scratching a young player here and there for some nebulous "earning it" thing with no communication.

It doesn't have to be Torts, but we sorely need some standards and I respect Torts for always setting them.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Yeah?

It's clear you don't think he's a good coach so why go back and forth all day?

I'd welcome him back here with open arms.

I guess maybe I was just expecting you to actually address some things that I said in response to some of the things that you said, ya know like people usually do on discussion forums... As opposed to just saying "well they played a game the other day and the Flyers looked better".

I suppose maybe I shouldn't have had such lofty expectations for you by this point, lol.

 

[Machinehead]

I guess maybe I was just expecting you to actually address some things that I said in response to some of the things that you said, ya know like people usually do on discussion forums... As opposed to just saying "well they played a game the other day and the Flyers looked better".

I suppose maybe I shouldn't have had such lofty expectations for you by this point, lol.

What can I say?

I think it's extremely impressive that he had that roster at 6th in the league in xGF% when he left. To me, that's a team playing the right way that just needs some talent.

You obviously don't value the analytics and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

What can I say?

I think it's extremely impressive that he had that roster at 6th in the league in xGF% when he left. To me, that's a team playing the right way that just needs some talent.

You obviously don't value the analytics and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

What can you say...? Maybe something actually related to anything that I said in response to the things that you said... You ignored the entire comment and said "well they played the other day and Philly was marginally better in an 8-5 game, so Torts must have done a great job before he was fired."

You mentioned one singular analytic point that the team had a good xGF% one season... everything else was just random emotional points and willful misinformation.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I’d take him back with NYR in a nanosecond. Culture is soft and they need someone to make them play hard

 

[Machinehead]

Don't you actually look up and confirm what you're saying before just spouting it out? It's hard to put much weight into a statement like "no wonder they were such a shithole" when you literally didn't even know that AV even coached there until I told you that he did....

They went 41-21-7 AV's first season and made the playoffs. They sucked every year since.

His first season was his best with the Rangers and they got worse every year after that.

I've seen this movie before.

They were a "shithole" when Torts got there, and they're still a shithole when he left.... AV gets criticized by you for making the team a "shithole" (when you didn't even know he coached there), but Torts gets a pass for the team still being a shithole after he was there for 2.5 seasons?

The Flyers were 28th in xGF% AV's last year and 24th Torts' first year. They were 7th in xGF% in 2024 and 6th in 2025. That's tangible improvement despite the roster mostly getting worse as they sold assets.

I know you don't care about that, but you clicked on a thread with the word "analytics" in the title so here we are.

You're creating some random undeserved narrative that Torts has created some legendary 'foundation that will last' with a bottom feeding team that doesn't look in any way "inspired" by his presence there.

I don't care about "inspired." That's spooky nonsense that you can't measure. He took the team from bottom 5 in xGF% to almost top 5.

....You'd rather be the last place team in the East this year (and a team that's floundered under Torts' entire tenure), than a team that has actually had a measure of success recently? Where is the logic in this asinine assertion?

Literally, yes.

Wathcing the Rangers makes me hate this sport.

At least the Flyers forecheck and have fundamentals down.

The 2021 Canadiens went to the Stanley Cup Final in the middle of going 44-70-22 in the regular season before and after.

Winning games in the short-term actually means very little.

The Flyers are in the middle of a rebuild where at least they have a decent foundation (thanks to Torts!) and some intriguing pieces like Michkov.

The Rangers haven't started their rebuild yet and will likely try to run it back again next year with the same team that makes people drink.


Have I now addressed all of your points?

 

[Rodgerwilco]

They went 41-21-7 AV's first season and made the playoffs. They sucked every year since.

His first season was his best with the Rangers and they got worse every year after that.

I've seen this movie before.

You're bringing up AV's record with Philly BEFORE Torts coached there, which really doesn't make any sense in the context. Funnily enough, Vancouver was terrible when Tortorella took over for AV there and was arguably the biggest blemish on Tortorella's entire coaching career.

Most of AV's tenure with Philly was in the midst/fallout of COVID, so really hard to determine how things would have shaken out normally.

The Flyers were 28th in xGF% AV's last year and 24th Torts' first year. They were 7th in xGF% in 2024 and 6th in 2025. That's tangible improvement despite the roster mostly getting worse as they sold assets.

I know you don't care about that, but you clicked on a thread with the word "analytics" in the title so here we are.

I don't care about "inspired." That's spooky nonsense that you can't measure. He took the team from bottom 5 in xGF% to almost top 5.

That's some decent improvement of one statistical category. I do care about analytics, despite what you thought. But unfortunately, analytics need to be taken in context as well.

Literally, yes.

Wathcing the Rangers makes me hate this sport.

At least the Flyers forecheck and have fundamentals down.

The 2021 Canadiens went to the Stanley Cup Final in the middle of going 44-70-22 in the regular season before and after.

Winning games in the short-term actually means very little.

The Flyers are in the middle of a rebuild where at least they have a decent foundation (thanks to Torts!) and some intriguing pieces like Michkov.

The Rangers haven't started their rebuild yet and will likely try to run it back again next year with the same team that makes people drink.


Have I now addressed all of your points?

I get that you're a disgruntled Rangers fan that is frustrated by missing playoffs this year after a promising season last year, but that doesn't magically make Tortorella a great coach.

I'd say 'have fundamentals down' is just as meaningful as my statement that you dismissed earlier about the team being 'inspired'.

We'll have to wait and see if the legendary Torts effect will cause Philly to improve after he's gone. Though, they're bottom feeders right now, so it's nearly impossible for them not to improve. I'm sure if they have some modicum of improvement in the standings in the near future you'll attribute this to Tortorella "building a foundation".

I suppose I should factored in you being emotionally frustrated by the Rangers failures before trying to engage too deeply in this discussion. That's on me.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Torts had the team near the top of the league in xGF%.

We don't know how they'll grade out with the new guy until the new guy has been there awhile. At least a full season, probably more.

Torts did in Philly what he pretty much always does. He sets a good standard and gets pretty much everyone to meet it, but he holds back talent. He's not the coach you win with, but he's the coach before the coach.

I don't know if they'll have the roster to execute it, but the best window is after Torts leaves and the new guy is still new. Straight ahead hockey but with a little bit more freedom.

You talk out of both sides of your mouth here.

Top 5 in the league in xGF% but holds back talent? Sounds like he had the team playing a winning brand.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I’d take him back with NYR in a nanosecond. Culture is soft and they need someone to make them play hard

Ironically he was let go by the flyers because the team is so soft.

 

[PB37]

His old school philosophy and methodology has it's place but he needs to adapt to the times if he ever wants to find more success than he has had in his more recent stops.

 

[Garbageyuk]

f*** Torts.

For not being around to take the blame for Michkov’s struggles anymore? I’m curious who you’re blaming now that he’s gone lmao. My money is on his line mates. “These bums aren’t smart enough to keep up with him.”

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'll have you know my father loves me very much and I resent that. I hope your roof falls down and it's not insured.

I have issues with my hockey team that I need to work out.

But has he told you how proud he is of you?

 

[Auston Marlander]

You can't necessarily measure success by wins and losses.

That is the only stat that matters when looking at a coaches success.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

"fancy stats" said he did ok. Real stats and eyes says he was garbage. You decide.

 

[Curufinwe]

Torts had the team near the top of the league in xGF%.

The Flyers were 14th in xGF% under Torts, and anyone who watched them play the last 200+ games could tell you the formula was seriously exaggerating how many goals they were going to score. 24th in GF is a much more accurate representation of their offense.

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

They also had the worst PP in the league.

 

[Curufinwe]

For not being around to take the blame for Michkov’s struggles anymore? I’m curious who you’re blaming now that he’s gone lmao. My money is on his line mates. “These bums aren’t smart enough to keep up with him.”

Michkov has 9 points in 8 games since Torts was fired.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Michkov has 9 points in 8 games since Torts was fired.

That’s an interesting way to frame it to avoid admitting that he is once again struggling.

2 points in his last 5 games, and has looked even worse than the stat line suggests.

Seems like he got a bit of a mental rush from Torts being fired, knowing he could now continue bad habits and poor effort with impunity, but that has clearly worn off.

 

[FlyguyOX]

That’s an interesting way to frame it to avoid admitting that he is once again struggling.

2 points in his last 5 games, and has looked even worse than the stat line suggests.

Seems like he got a bit of a mental rush from Torts being fired, knowing he could now continue bad habits and poor effort with impunity, but that has clearly worn off.

You need to get help for your unhealthy obsession with this.

 

[Machinehead]

His old school philosophy and methodology has it's place but he needs to adapt to the times if he ever wants to find more success than he has had in his more recent stops.

I don't think this is an unfair assessment.

 

[Machinehead]

You're bringing up AV's record with Philly BEFORE Torts coached there, which really doesn't make any sense in the context. Funnily enough, Vancouver was terrible when Tortorella took over for AV there and was arguably the biggest blemish on Tortorella's entire coaching career.

Most of AV's tenure with Philly was in the midst/fallout of COVID, so really hard to determine how things would have shaken out normally.

That's some decent improvement of one statistical category. I do care about analytics, despite what you thought. But unfortunately, analytics need to be taken in context as well.

I get that you're a disgruntled Rangers fan that is frustrated by missing playoffs this year after a promising season last year, but that doesn't magically make Tortorella a great coach.

I'd say 'have fundamentals down' is just as meaningful as my statement that you dismissed earlier about the team being 'inspired'.

We'll have to wait and see if the legendary Torts effect will cause Philly to improve after he's gone. Though, they're bottom feeders right now, so it's nearly impossible for them not to improve. I'm sure if they have some modicum of improvement in the standings in the near future you'll attribute this to Tortorella "building a foundation".

I suppose I should factored in you being emotionally frustrated by the Rangers failures before trying to engage too deeply in this discussion. That's on me.

I did engage and you gave me the same sass you did before, which I why I didn't wanna engage.

 

[Ace36758]

I guess maybe I was just expecting you to actually address some things that I said in response to some of the things that you said, ya know like people usually do on discussion forums... As opposed to just saying "well they played a game the other day and the Flyers looked better".

I suppose maybe I shouldn't have had such lofty expectations for you by this point, lol.

You should work on laying off the personal attacks and instead focus on a productive discussion.
Machinehead is a respected poster around here, and he/she provided some interesting discussion and anecdotes of how the Rangers fared under Torts before and after. No need to take everything apart and stoop to insults.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I did engage and you gave me the same sass you did before, which I why I didn't wanna engage.

If that's your take on the exchange then I guess that's all we've got to discuss.

Until next time.

 

[Machinehead]

You talk out of both sides of your mouth here.

Top 5 in the league in xGF% but holds back talent? Sounds like he had the team playing a winning brand.

I just think the issue is a bit nuanced.

Good luck with that on here where it's "team lose, coach bad."

It's unlikely that Torts will ever grant the freedom for your top talent to ever hit their ceiling offensively, but at the same time, he's gonna either make them better overall hockey players or weed them out. Both things can be true.

There is no perfect coach and the influence of multiple coaches ultimately goes into the finished product. I'd always be happy to have Torts in that mix for my team.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

You should work on laying off the personal attacks and instead focus on a productive discussion.
Machinehead is a respected poster around here, and he/she provided some interesting discussion and anecdotes of how the Rangers fared under Torts before and after. No need to take everything apart and stoop to insults.

Bit of a stretch to consider that a 'personal attack', but I suppose everyone reads things differently. I was attempting a productive discussion and most of what I said wasn't even acknowledged, along with contextually relevant assertions being made which could have been avoided with a 5 second google search. I've had other exchanges with them which have gone a similar direction, which was my point in that line there.

Thank you for your feedback, though. I'm bowing out of the discussion at this point regardless.